Single Cavity Removable pin HP mould...A quick walk through, Please

[JWFilips]

Well I got my old Ideal 358311 hollow pointed by Buckshot ( Yes, a really super job from a master). I got it all ready to run some boolits in it this weekend...but I figure I would ask the folks here for a quick run through of how to use one of these type HP moulds.
I know I could just start pouring and learn as I go but I'm one of those guys that reads instructions before assembly...so to speak: I always have been.
This will be my first HP casting session & I'm sure I'm back to a new learning curve again.

I'm not interested in production Just a leisurely casting session and drop some HP boolits ( maybe even get some keepers first time out)

Would anyone care to give me a quick walk thru?

[Beagle333]

He does great work, doesn't he!! :bigsmyl2: On mine, I heat it up with the hot plate like any other mold, with the pin installed. Be sure you don't scorch the handle. It's tricky to get it situated on the hot plate where it'll make good contact without scorching either the mold handles or the pin handle. I have a coil type hot plate, and I used two methods for keeping the pin hot in the beginning. I started out with a small propane torch lit beside the pot and I would pour the lead, twist and pull the pin and set it on the table while I cut the sprue. Then I would give the pin about 1-2 seconds in the flame of the torch before putting it back in the mold and repeat.... but I also tried pulling the pin and sticking it between the red coils of the hot plate and letting it hang there by the pin during the few seconds it took to cut and dump.... but later, I figured out a good rhythm where I would pull it and cut/dump fast enough that the pin wouldn't cool down, so now I just cast faster and it works great without messing with heating the pin between pours.
Once you get the rhythm and timing down, you won't need to heat pin by itself any more, just get it back in that mold as fast as you can.

These are the first four that I poured, so keep at it until the nose fills out, the wrinkles go away, and the corners and base get sharp. It'll get easier for you pretty quick.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65659&d=1364486011

A short time later, I was able to make these......
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/cast%20boolits/keith2_zps60b0e2ba.jpg

[HeavyMetal]

A hot plate is the hot tip here!

What you need is the 10 buck hot plate from Big lots, make sure it has the exposed coil burner on it!

I have welding capability but you might not, if you do buy a steel plate about 6 or so inches in diameter and 1/4 inch thick at your local scrap yard.

Measure the pin length for your HP'S and cut a piece of round stock just an 1/8 of an inch shorter than the pin and weld it to the center of the steel plate. you must drill a hole that the pin fits into but does not drag on the side, particularly when hot, all the way through your round stock prior to the weld up.

Once you have this plate set up your ready to cast good keeper HP's!

On start up set your mold on top of your lead pot without the pin in it, set the steel plate on the coils of the hot plate and set the dial for just under medium and install the pin in the hole you drilled in the welded up bar stock.

Let everything come up to temp flux well and warm up your ladle, most old school HP set up's won't fit under most bottom pour pots.

To cast dip a corner of your mold into the alloy until the alloy won't stick to it, then dip the sprue plate, closed position please, into the alloy using the area your supposed to hit to open the mold as a contact point in the alloy.

Once the alloy won't stick to the sprue plate insert the HP pin and pour a boolit! wait until the sprue is hard and then wait just a little longer, I usually go for a slow 15 count from the time the alloy visibly hardens before I open the mold, pull the pin first and insert it back in the pin holder on the hot plate then open the mold and dump the boolit out.

The first couple your gonna want to examine well, first for complete base fill out and then for complete HP forming. This is a case where hotter is better! Your not going to set records for production with a single cavity HP mold so don't attempt it!

Quality over quantity should be your montra here! Minimal rejects result with this process if you have patience and time.

Once your satisfied you have the technique down simply concentrate on smooth movements the less movements you make to complete a cast HP the better the quality wil be and the bigger the pile you'll have in short order!

Always remember to dip the sprue plate at least every third pouring and keep the pin in one of two places in the mold or in the heater! It shoiuld never be layed down or allowed to cool off while casting!

[Mk42gunner]

1. Get the pin hot, and keep it hot. There isn't a whole lot of mass there to hold the heat. Any time the pin is out of the blocks, it is cooling off.

2. Pull the pin before you cut the sprue. It is very annoying trying to twist and pull the pin while the boolit just spins in the cavity.

I have rigged a wire holder to keep the pin in the flame of a more or less idling propane torch (½" visible flame).

That is about it, except for making sure the pin is in the blocks before pouring.

Robert

[94Doug]

I put a very small amount of bullplate one of my stubborn pins, which helped the bullets slide right off.

Doug

[JWFilips]

Great info Guys. This should help me through my first attempt. I got pretty much everything available to me as listed above I just have to work on the system that works best for me Thank You!

[JWFilips]

Well made my first attempt at casting in my new HP mould yesterday evening. Using the information given to me above I improvised with a few things I had on hand. I didn't have the metal plate and welding facility but I did have a nice round piece of 12L15 bar stock here and drilled it for 2 holes one just slightly bigger then my HP pin rod and one a few sizes bigger. My thinking was I would use the block of bar stock on my hotplate to preheat my HP pin in the smaller hole & as I got everything up and running at a good temperature I then would use the larger hole ( which makes placing the pin in the preheat block faster ) just to maintain a heat balance.

So while my pot heated up, my pin as well as my mould was on the hotplate (About just shy of the medium heat setting)

The first few pours really weren't that bad but I needed to get a sequence going because there is a bunch of things to go through just to drop a boolit .....It took me awhile to establish this rhythm. By about 15 pours or so things were working well and no surprises. It actually became pretty relaxing but after a few hours I realized I had a hundred or so boolits & I was getting tired. Caught myself putting the mould under the spout without the pin! No, I didn't pour any like that! After I shut it all down I took my little HP prizes to the other room & did a quick weigh in & inspection. I ended up wit about 70 keepers out of a possible 120 dropped on to the towel ( Also tossed about 15 or so real rejects)

On the scale the newly hollow-pointed old Ideal 358311 mould was averaging 147 grain +/- .4 & out of the 70 I got about 50 in that range.
The other 30 grouped between 146.2 to 146.5 grains
Both groups mic the same so it must be internal? I was experimenting with high & low casting temps. On the high I was running 725 deg for about half the session then tried running the pour cooler at about 650 deg. I couldn't tell a difference in the drop but maybe this is why the two groups weights???
I also noticed some flashing on one side of the HP nose Easily knocked off with a finger nail Some of the photos below show this. I'm thinking if I back out the pin it may stop this. This mould wasn't perfect to begin with & even after cleaning it up when I bought it , it had some issues but the ironed out ok when the boolit was sized ( mostly some base damage producing points where the halves came together. Milling improve it but I didn't want to take too much off the base so settled for a little flashing that cleans up ok in the sizer)

So my first attempt at HP casting: It was fun, Not sure they are as good as they can be but I will shoot some as soon as I can & compare it against the boolits before the mould was HP'ed. I couldn't wait so I already pan lubed them in Ben's Red and sized them this morning ( I normally wait a few weeks before shooting but hey I'm excited) Yes pan lubing with Ben's lube and running though a Lee sizer does make a bit of a mess but I clean them up after loading
Below are some photos since I know you guys like pictures.
81800
This was the preheater I made
81801
This is the HP pin in the preheating hole
81802
This is the HP pin in the holding heat hole
81803
Just a few as dropped
81804
Lubed & sized I know they look messy but they clean up fine

[HeavyMetal]

good looking boolits!

With a little practise you'll have more keepers / less rejects.

The reason for the plate to weld the pin heater to is so I don't chase the thing all over the hot plate!

Any good shop should be able to tack the bar stock to a steel plate for a minimal charge.

[GLL]

I love casting with single cavity HP molds and have a couple dozen ! :)

All of the above suggestions are great.
The key for my own success is to cast at a quick-steady pace and do not stop to admire your handywork !

Here are a couple more from Buckshot !

http://www.fototime.com/55F07C1E821F1A5/medium800.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/92CF024B893F56F/orig.jpg


Jerry

[Beagle333]

What a nice pin holder! Good job on the boolits! [smilie=p:

[GLL]

One more suggestion !

DO NOT drop the pin in your casting pot ! ;) ;)

Jerry

[JWFilips]

I did another session this evening. Doubled my production & more useable boolits (about 80 % keepers) in about the same time.
Found out once I got the mould up to temp I could cast as fast as I could perform the full function so that was a big plus to maintain the pace.
The best I found was a alloy temp of 725 deg. ( with a 50/50 mix of pure lead & wheel weights plus add'l 2% tin) ran the mould & pin hot (just near frosting)
It became pretty easy and enjoyable. I think I got this thing figured out now.
GLL those are some nice moulds I like the fact that they have a flat point then the HP pin hole.
Mine was a round nose ( probably why I get some flashing on one side of the pin hole) I wonder if I can modify a pin to get a flat & a HP Hole similar to your moulds?

[GLL]

JW:

Whenever you get a custom or Group Buy mold from someone like Al at NOE or have Buckshot modify your own mold have them make you several blank pins. You can then modify them to your own HP cavity design. I usually get three extra.
You can indeed grind a pin so you produce a flat and a cavity.

Jerry

[JWFilips]

Just realized an added plus HP'ing this 358311 mould: Now I can load this HP version in my Pre-27 S&W 357 mag & crimp on the groove . Previously the 358311 as is RN could only be crimped above the front drive band because the nose interfered with the rotation of the cylinder .Not stellar performance since the bullet was set so far back of the throat. Now that it is HP'ed It sits nice & far out in the throat So getting the Hollow pointing done has not only given me a new 38 Spec Boolit but a .357 mag one as well...Joy Joy!