Need a custom shell holder made

[GRUMPA]

Some of you may know I do conversions and I'm currently "ATTEMPTING" to make the new 22 TCM case. I have been through all the motions and no matter what I do when I use the shell holder it will leave that dreaded horse shoe pattern from the shell holder on the head of the case. And where the horse shoe pattern is the head get larger by around .003 just in that area, not .003 all over but just where the head was pretty much swaged during the neck forming operation.

Here's a picture of the case in the shell holder. Notice it has the slight groove at the base so that any slight protrusion from a primer can easily slide into the groove.

81625

And here's a picture of the shell holder without the case in it.

81626

What I need is one made just like a factory shell holder that is flat. Meaning without the through hole for the primer and without that slight slot. But it needs to be as hard or harder than factory because it does get a lot of stress applied to it.

The only thing I need beside the head of the case resting on something flat is the dimension shortened or the head dimension be thinner than factory, like this.

81627

And that dimension reads .241

Anyone know of anyone that can make something like that?

This is for the 223 parent case.

[NHPaul]

When You get one I would like one as well. I can draw up a sketch of what I am looking for in a shell holder
I will post it

[Stephen Cohen]

One wonders why the groove is there in first place, if it is for protruding primers that is silly. I would much rather have it not fit so I can fix the primer before I seat a projectile. would it be possible to fill that groove with a metal based epoxy to help you out.

[grumman581]

One wonders why the groove is there in first place, if it is for protruding primers that is silly. I would much rather have it not fit so I can fix the primer before I seat a projectile. would it be possible to fill that groove with a metal based epoxy to help you out.

Since the shell holder is not just used for seating projectiles, but also for depriming, I would suspect that it allows you to deprime a piece of brass where the primer had either come slightly out or had been inserted incorrectly. I've had primers feed incorrectly and go in at an angle. If you don't catch it immediately, you might have a bullet in the cartridge with a messed up primer. You need to be able to remove the cartridge from the shell holder so that you can remove the bullet so you can then empty the powder and remove the damaged primer. Of course, it's going to depend upon the procedure that you use for removing the bullet from a loaded round. I have a separate single stage press setup for that, so I can just take the jammed cartridge from one press and put it as-is in the other press. Some people might be using inertia bullet pullers and that might not be an option. I don't have much experience with inertia bullet pullers since I keep breaking them. :(

[grumman581]

Could you just heat up the shell holder by setting it on a hot plate and then fill it with lead, linotype, or tin? And then use a very small file to remove any excess lead, linotype, or tin after the whole thing cools?

Or if that is not strong enough, use a oxy-acetylene or oxy-propane rig to braze it with a bronze brazing rod?

[frankenfab]

It would cost quite a bit to make just one of those. You have to have a very small keyseat cutter to cut the groove for the rim. And then you have to heat treat when done. If some one already had the cutter, it wouldn't be near as expensive. I don't know if Lee would make a custom shell holder or not.

The top could be ground down in a few minutes by any shop with a surface grinder.

Good luck, Grumpa!

I want to get some of your Blackout brass a soon as I can afford it.

[joesig]

My first reaction is what kind of lube are you using that the ram exerts so much force as to swage the case head!

Enco has the cutter. MSC does too but more money.

http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/16454-straight-tooth-hss-woodruff-keyseat-cutters-327-1942.html

I loathe to not answer the question directly. I'd like to experiment and try to make one but it would probably be as ugly as a mud fence.

Didn't Lee(?) make a universal shell holder that used fingers around the perimeter of the rim?

If you can't find someone to make one, how much extraction force is there? RCBS has the competition extended shell holders that have much thinner sides but at least no primer ejection hole in the bottom. I bet some shim stock filed to fit what is left of the horseshoe and epoxied in place would offer full support but wouldn't offer the best extraction strength if that is required too.

[nhrifle]

I love machining and making things from metal, but in this case I would just cut and grind a piece of steel flat stock that would fill the primer slot in the shell holder and either epoxy or super glue it there.

[Stephen Cohen]

I love machining and making things from metal, but in this case I would just cut and grind a piece of steel flat stock that would fill the primer slot in the shell holder and either epoxy or super glue it there.

That's a great idea, a piece of feeler gauge maybe. So many smart people here, grumman581 even showed me what I should have realised myself. Love this place.

[rcav8r]

The fill in the hole idea would probably be easiest. Tape the bottom of the shell hole, fill the hole with epoxy. Cut some shim stock to fit the slot. Done.

Machining a new one wouldn't be hard, just take longer. Just turn the profile in the lathe, then set up in the mill to cut the slot in 2 operations.

[NHPaul]

I can make the round blank but I dont have the cutter for the undercut, might be able to make a si81735ngle lip cutter This is th drawing I came up with

[halfslow]

I don't think epoxy is strong enough to keep the shim stock from bending down and pushing the epoxy plug out, but if you tapped the hole and screwed in a steel plug from the bottom, the shim would be able to work as you hoped.
Then, a very strong epoxy such as Devcon may hold the shim in place.

[deltaenterprizes]

I made a shell holder for 22 LR to pull the bullets and salvage the lead slugs and use the brass cases to make .223 bullets.
I made the slot by using a broken end mill I ground in a boring head in the mill not pretty but it works.

[GRUMPA]

One thing about altering the existing shell holder is a person really doesn't want to use something softer than the rest of the metal. In time it will give, especially if the added metal or whatever doesn't have a solid anchor. I've worked in machine shops for 27yrs and I've seen it all, will I think so anyway, and making one to fit the needs of the individual from a single piece is far far better in the long run.

This shell holder is for forming the 22TCM case. you have to keep in mind that it's only 1.030 in length and the farther down you get to the base of the case the thicker the brass becomes. If you speak with someone that has brass that was bought from someone in 22TCM that isn't factory I can almost guarantee the neck diameters will be all over the place. When I make mine it's virtually impossible to make it without reaming the necks so they are all the same.

I've seen a youtube video and only 1 and if you don't know machining and it's particulars a person can be fooled real easily. As soon as I can get the bugs worked out I'll make them available and not before, if I can't do it better than factory I wont do it at all. There's a bit more of an effort to do these that most wont realize till they do them themselves.

I would like to thank NHPaul at this time who through his own efforts and experience provided drawings and needed details to everyone (especially me) that reads this thread.

[scb]

None of my Redding shellholders have the groove cut in them, and yes they are for backed out primers.
81755

[NHPaul]

2 Per my print are on the way Grumpa
one for me and one for you

[rondog]

What about annealing the cases first to soften them up?

[GRUMPA]

I've tried that, and trust me it has almost the same effect on the base. I've done it both ways with annealing and without with pretty much the same thing happen. The pattern I can live with but what chaps my hind end is the head diameter grows which for me, isn't good enough.

[MarkP]

I can make the round blank but I dont have the cutter for the undercut, might be able to make a si81735ngle lip cutter This is th drawing I came up with

This would be the easiest; a shell holder for a Hydro form die.

Shell holders are machined with a special woodruff type cutter. You could bore one on a lathe then mill out the lead in slot.

81763

FYI -- shell holders are made from 12L14 then case carburized.

[Buckshot]

I'm not posting here because I want to make the shellholder! :-) However I feel the best way to make a custom shell holder is to make a single tooth cutter to match the rim profile. Of course if you were making them on a production basis you'd go to a toolmaker and and have a 'run' custom made, such as the example of a key seat cutter. In this instance having custom tooling made is cost effective versus a 'on off' tool.

http://www.fototime.com/FEB48295FDD2804/standard.jpg

In my instance I was needing a shell holder for the 32 gauge Mag-Tech brass shotshells I was using to create cases for my 11x42R Comblain carbine.

http://www.fototime.com/DC987B812F647C3/standard.jpg

The top of the rim has a slight slope to it, so I hand ground a single toothed cutter to match the shape. In the above photo if you look close you can see the top of the slot for the rim is slanted down. I made this before having a milling machine so it was turned in the lathe. The major ID was cut to depth with a boring bar. The rim cutter was held in a toolholder. It was fed in to depth and then via the cross slide it was fed out to cut the groove to the desired OD.

If I'd had a mill then I would have made the shell holder body on the lathe first. Then set up on the mill an endmill close to the correct ID would be fed in on the Y axis to remove the bulk of the material. The the single tooth tool would be substituted and fed in to cut the slot. You'll notice the shell holder above has a considerable arc removed which was required to intersect the major diameter of the rim in order to feed a case in and out of the shell holder. While this works just fine and I have no need to create another, had I had a mill at the time, the slot would have simply been milled in from the edge feeding into the cutter held in the quill via either the X or Y axis.

As to hardening I really do not think that the shell holder would have to be hardened unless I'm missing something. Common 1018 / 1020 low carbon is certainly adequate to withstand any pressure the brass rim would exert against it?

.............Buckshot

[kywoodwrkr]

First of all I don't see what the parent case is.
Secondly, RCBS makes extended sheel holders in various numbers just for this.
http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=extended+shell+holder
Were I to, and I might, make my own shell holder, I will use a Woodruff mill as is or ground to my requirements.
#303 and #302 come to mind.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-16-X-3-32-STRAIGHT-TOOTH-WOODRUFF-KEYSEAT-CUTTER-AMER-STD-302-1-2-/230827680448?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35be66e2c0#ht_902wt_932
Access to tool grinder might help also.

60 degree end mills are readily available as well.

[Cap'n Morgan]

What Buckshot says about hardening is correct; It's not necessary. The rim of the case will strip long before the shell holder gives in.

[NHPaul]

Hey Matt
How about one of these? the ugly one is on its way to you as soon as I get an address.
Paul83826

[GRUMPA]

:kissarse::kissarse::kissarse: PM sent

[Garyb]

I had the same problem with a standard shell holder. I tried scb's suggestion regarding the Redding shell holder. Turned a stainless steel pin and press fit it in the primer hole. Removes the horseshoe impression.86412