Who else just fluxes with wax?

[Muddydogs]

Yes I know wax is not a flux, didn't know what else to call it.

Over the last couple days I have read 2 posts about fluxing and the basic gist of the posts are if you don't use saw dust you won't make good bullets.

I have only been casting for a couple years, casted 9000 bullets for rifle and pistol this year using COWW fluxed with wax and my bullets come out of the molds as they should and shoot great.

When I smelt the WW's I flux with the wife’s tea candles, I usually drop 2 or 3 into the melt before I skim the clips out then add another couple candles, stir, skim and pour ingots. My ingots are clean with no dirt pits what so ever. I also purchase some WW ingots for a local guy and when I asked him what he used to flux his melt he told me wax also. I can't tell a difference between his ingots and mine in the casting pot or mold.

At casting time I make sure my Lee 20 pound pot is full, stir the melt with a wooden stick making sure I scrap the bottom of the pot, skim off a small amount of stuff that floats to the top and cast away. A couple times an hour I might have to turn the pour stem on the pot as it starts dripping but a couple back and forths of the stem takes care of the problem. My bullets come out of the mold with sharp edges, around the correct weight and around .002 to .003 over the size of the mold depending on the mold.

I have read up on using saw dust as a flux and when I first started casting I was planning on fluxing with it the next time I smelt but now I’m thinking why bother. Wax is doing a fine job and since I don’t have a shop area all the saw dust I create ends up on the ground in the back yard so I would have to go looking for a supply.

So who else breaks all the rules and just fluxes with wax without any problems?

[jmort]

"... if you don't use saw dust you won't make good bullets."

Never seen anyone say that. There is a general consensus that using wood "dust/shavings" is the best practice. I doubt that anyone cares what you use and you are happy with your results. Pine shavings are so cheap I don't believe cost would be a barrier for most anyone. Conservation of the alloy components is the key here, so what you don't know, apparently does not matter to you. Sounds like you are happy with your results so crack-on with your method. New casters would be advised to get as much information as possible and should strongly consider pine shavings/dust.

[WilliamDahl]

I've read of people basically using anything carbon based for fluxing while smelting. I've used wax, sawdust, and used motor oil. Many of us who do some type of woodworking with tools that have dust collectors just end up using sawdust since we always have so much of it.

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellFluxing.htm

[Baja_Traveler]

When I leave the warming plate on my lubrisizer plugged in too long, I get these thin strings of lube extruding up between the die - I save those and toss little balls of it into my bottom pour pot and it works well. I also stir the wax in with a wooden paint stir stick - get them for free at Home Depot or Lowes. I ask for a few from the paint dept every time I go...

[grumman581]

I use cedar sticks for stirring the lead in my smelting pot in addition to sawdust. I have plenty of cedar fence boards leftover after Hurricane Ike took down my fence a few years ago.

[bangerjim]

For smelting, I use tea candles (cheap!) and sawdust (anything I have in my shop). Do not use the dust from Home Despot or Lowes as that can contain contaminated pressure-treated and glued-up wood products not good for you. We breathe enough crapola without introducing even more in there!!!!!!

In my castng pots, I use a marble-size ball of beeswax almost all together. I do stir it with dried grape branches from my backyard vineyard and that works very well.....all the crapola comes to the top and the surface returns to shiney and bright, with the tin back in there. Recently my chineese pistaschio tree over my casting area outside my back shop is loosing some leaves and I have been using those too.

This fluxing/reducing thing is just like the new mold scrubbing & cleaning/cleaning & scrubbing ritual many adhere to. There's a lot of olde wive's tales floating around out there and you need to read them all and then try what you think works the best for you!

After much playing around, I arrived at the above components for smelting/casting melts.

And they DO work VERY WELL for me.............irregardless of what others say is "the ONLY correct way".

bangerjim

[Guesser]

I've been using cast off candle wax and canning paraffin and bullet loob and any other type of wax for well over 40 years. Works for me. I ain't no wood butcher, can't even carve good kindling out of straight grain Lodge Pole pine.. The ol' timer that introduced me to casting in 1956 used mutton tallow, rendered beef tallow and /or lard. Worked well. I used bacon grease a few times when I didn't have anything else handy. Tried some commercial casting flux, garbage!!!!!

[el34]

I visually witness the dross disappear and return to the alloy when using the pine chips (Walmart critter litter $2.57). It takes about a minute and works every time. Don't know how much worse boolits would be without it though, maybe the only value is the satisfaction of seeing my tin($$) get back into the soup.

[Larry Gibson]

I also have been using wax (candle, paraffin and beeswax) to flux with for 43+ years. That's what Lyman and all the old pundits said to use back "in the day". Whoever says those waxes aren't a flux have obviously not tried them because they flux very well indeed. Any sort of so called scientific hypotheses does not negate the fact that the waxes do flux binary and ternary alloys just fine.

I drop a small bit of the wax on the alloy and then drop in a wooden match which is lit by the hot alloy and burns off most of the smoke and smell. Ah....maybe it's the wooden match? Nah, that isn’t so because the alloy is fluxed just as well with or w/o the wooden match. Waxes work just fine for fluxing, don't believe otherwise. No criticism intended of wood or commercial fluxes to justify the use of waxes. All work equally well if used correctly. I use wax most often when casting bullets and use wax 100% when smelting.

Larry Gibson

[dragon813gt]

I don't use it exclusively. But I do find it works better at binding all the junk together that sits in top of the lead. It makes it easier to scoop it all out at once after I add some wax and let it burn off.

[geargnasher]

Keep it up guys, fill the world with mystic opinion, confuse facts of science, justify it all with red herring fallacies, and bring everyone, especially newcomers to the hobby, down to your level of ignorance. After all, that's what Ken wanted Castboolits to be all about.

Gear

[dmclark523]

I'm not a seasoned caster by any means, but I've tried both before and I prefer the wood shavings. I too tried the 'tea candles', 2-3 at a time, but I have since stopped using them in favor of wood shavings.
Personally, I thought the wax was messy to clean up after it "fluxed". Often, it would flame up, almost in a fireball, rather than just smoke and char, as shavings will.
Scooping gooey, black wax out of the pot wasn't fun, and plus it charred my ladle in this nasty black ****.

Wood shaving for me, purely based on cleanup! I think both work fine, and it's all about preference.

[detox]

I use wax, but stirring the melt frequently is more important than what type of flux you use. Both wax and sawdust will return dross back into the melt and leave surface mirror clean after skimming. Sawdust will leave more residue which can be more difficult to remove from melt when it gets pinned between melt and pot walls.

[jmort]

"Keep it up guys, fill the world with mystic opinion, confuse facts of science, justify it all with red herring fallacies, and bring everyone, especially newcomers to the hobby, down to your level of ignorance."

Since you "think" about things like this, are you pro pine/wood or pro wax/oil or pro all the above? I agree, that we should promote "best practices" as I mentioned, especially for the "newcomers."

[Larry Gibson]

Gear

Tell us how you really feel. .....

Newbies have been told to flux with waxes for who knows how long....well before you or I were born. Waxes do indeed flux the binary and ternary alloys we use as well as anything, better than some. That is fact not "mystic opinion" or the rest. We all know you and several others have superior alloys, lubes, cast bullet designs, can shoot them at higher velocity than the rest of us and have bought every undersized mould Lyman makes .....so how about explaining why waxes all of a sudden don't flux or aren't fluxes? Perhaps a logical discussion would be what Ken wanted here, yah think?

Larry Gibson

[Dan Cash]

Wax is carbonaceous as are cellulose based materials. you can flux with a bale of hay if it pulls your trigger but the neighbors might think you are firing off the biggest hooter ever. I have used wax since about 1959 or 60 when I first tried casting. I have tried sawdust but find it too darned hard to get the little carbon bits out of the melt. Wax or vegetable oil does me well for casting. Smelting, I use used motor oil as I have lots. Before I get the lecture from the safety freaks, let me state that I smelt out of doors and work up wind. There is always enough wind here in North Dakota to take care of the fumes. It is about 4 miles to the closest down wind neighbor so no hassels there.

This works well for me. You may or may not want to do things this way which is fine.
Dan

[dragon813gt]

Everyone tells the new guys they need to buy a manual or two. The manuals make no reference to using sawdust as a flux. The 4th Edition of the Lyman Cast Bullet handbook makes no mention of fluxing at all. I will admit that I just skimmed it fairly quickly but I couldn't find a mention. Lee's second edition makes reference to using beeswax or bullet lube as a flux.

I know the difference between sawdust and waxes. But the manuals that everyone tells the new guys to get mention waxes only. I'm just pointing this out so people realize it's in hard print. There is a lot in the Lyman book that I hate but that's another thread topic ;)

[baker1425]

I go cheap, with small kids there's always broken crayons around. kids came home with another kids broken crayons too, "daddy uses these for boolits".

[Larry Gibson]

Gear

I do understand your dissertation on fluxing in the other thread. Apparently wax, even though it does flux, isn't good because it doesn't absorb the unwanted metals we don't want in the alloy.
However, many of us remove the unwanted debri/metals when smelting correctly, even with other than wood fluxes.

I used wax as the flux with that COWW +2% tin alloy when I showed you your Lyman mould was not casting undersize. No unwanted metals there and that alloy casts very well with just a wax fluxing. Sure sawdust works and works well but so does wax and a lot of other things.

Use what you want but wax has been working for a long time and I'll continue to use it.....ain't broke so it don't need fixin.......

Larry Gibson

[NYBushBro]

You can flux with a bale of hay if it pulls your trigger but the neighbors might think you are firing off the biggest hooter ever.

Perhaps we should start fluxing with hemp? :shock:

[357maximum]

Perhaps we should start fluxing with hemp? :shock:

I am going to go one step farther than that....I am going to make grease using hemp oil and then use that to make lube....it has a high smoke point and should make some great boolit lube.....now if only I could find a tutorial on how to make grease from 9,999 different things. :lol: Hemp based lube should cause the boolits to achive that "gone to sleep" phase that so many long distance gunners seek don't ya think??? :mrgreen:

[Wally]

Yes I know wax is not a flux, didn't know what else to call it.

Over the last couple days I have read 2 posts about fluxing and the basic gist of the posts are if you don't use saw dust you won't make good bullets.

I have only been casting for a couple years, casted 9000 bullets for rifle and pistol this year using COWW fluxed with wax and my bullets come out of the molds as they should and shoot great.

When I smelt the WW's I flux with the wife’s tea candles, I usually drop 2 or 3 into the melt before I skim the clips out then add another couple candles, stir, skim and pour ingots. My ingots are clean with no dirt pits what so ever. I also purchase some WW ingots for a local guy and when I asked him what he used to flux his melt he told me wax also. I can't tell a difference between his ingots and mine in the casting pot or mold.

At casting time I make sure my Lee 20 pound pot is full, stir the melt with a wooden stick making sure I scrap the bottom of the pot, skim off a small amount of stuff that floats to the top and cast away. A couple times an hour I might have to turn the pour stem on the pot as it starts dripping but a couple back and forths of the stem takes care of the problem. My bullets come out of the mold with sharp edges, around the correct weight and around .002 to .003 over the size of the mold depending on the mold.

I have read up on using saw dust as a flux and when I first started casting I was planning on fluxing with it the next time I smelt but now I’m thinking why bother. Wax is doing a fine job and since I don’t have a shop area all the saw dust I create ends up on the ground in the back yard so I would have to go looking for a supply.

So who else breaks all the rules and just fluxes with wax without any problems?


I do as well....used motor oil also works nicely.

[bangerjim]

Has everybody got their "weed card" from thier doctor?

MJ burns very well, fluxes/reduces, and fries your brain all at the same time!

Sound good......dude! :bigsmyl2: Tokin' & jokin'!

bangerjim

[williamwaco]

Well . . .

I used wax for 50 years before I joined this forum.
I never heard of using anything else except oil.

I tried sawdust.
At first I didn't like it because it burned my eyes.
I got a fan to get rid of the smoke and discovered it worked well.

After two seasons of using sawdust intermittently with scrap candles I have formed some opinions based on not one single scientific fact.
But they are based on personal observations of actual smelting and casting results.

1) Sawdust does a better job of smelting dirty scrap or wheel weights.

2) Plywood sawdust will work but it will choke you to death. I would not even try particle board.

3) For smelting clean scrap, I can't tell any difference in the results between wax and sawdust.

4) Stirring with a wood stick works well - BUT - never let that stick touch the bottom of a bottom pour pot, only the sides. ( Doesn't matter with other types pots. ) I use paint stirring sticks when I use wood stirring sticks but that is becoming less and less often.

5) In actual casting, I get better, cleaner, bullets if I use wax. When stirring, always scrape the sides and bottom of the pot with a metal implement. A spoon or in some cases a squared off hacksaw blade. If you scrape the bottom of your casting pot with a wooden stick, you will soon see ash inclusions in the sides of your bullets. Of you leave any ash or carbon in the pot, You will soon begin to see black carbon or grey oxide specs in the surface of your bullets

6) Most people understate the need for stirring. When I say stir in the wax, I mean STIR IN THE WAX! Stir it vigorously until it is all burned off. This usually takes 60 to 90 seconds. During the stirring ( I use a long handled spoon ) push the wax on the top of the pot down into the melt. Then with the spoon, reach down into the pot and pull up the alloy from the bottom of the pot to the top. Stir round and round and up and down.

7) If you want clean bullets, you must keep your pot and your metal clean.


.

[MtGun44]

Wax seems to work as a flux for me. Never have tried sawdust, but mixing with
a stick seems to work, too.

Bill

[Dan Cash]

Perhaps we should start fluxing with hemp? :shock:

How much rope per pound of melt should I use????:???:

[eljefeoz]

I was told to read Fryxell
I did
Great reading
lurked here for ages before I built up confidence to cast
Got my first stash of WW, cleaned and sorted Zn & Fe marked WW

Got the mess into liquidus,skimmed off the clips and metal.
Added wood chips (?cedar for smokers) drizzled and stirred until it was all ash.
poured a couple of CB from the smelt-good lines, flow characteristics, boolits fell out with nary an effort.
added wax (candles) and some grease off the BBq, poured my smelt into muffin trays.
Next-poured my self 2 kg of 168 gr RCBS sillywet. Great looking projjies.
next batch-was 'mongrel lead'- paternity disputed.
dross and muck and oat meal.Yup, first look at oat meal.So, redid, smothered with same cedar chips, suddenly flow /liquidus changed.I had minimal dross and the most beautiful lead.
add beeswax, rendering from BBq , a couple of candles. nice and smooth flow.cast 20kg of pure lead into muffin tins.
Am a total noob.Will look forward to reading the flux experiences and use what works.For me it s Fryxell, Wood chips and wax as reductant-if I remember what read
All I can say is, Wood chips &Wax/grease do what Fryxell says they do.
Whatever floats your dross ;)
Stay safe

[Zymurgy50]

Fluxing with bacon grease? Just the smell would make me stop and go make a sandwich...........

[dragon813gt]

Fluxing with bacon grease? Just the smell would make me stop and go make a sandwich...........

Such a waste of bacon grease IMO.

[geargnasher]

Glen explained it. I explained it here many times, in many different ways, and for some reason very, very few people seem to be able or want to understand what we are saying, only argue and butt heads.

Here it is, I'm too tired to type it out all over again:


Boolit casters typically use dirty, contaminated scrap from whatever source we can scrounge up, and that sort of stuff needs special attention to make the best boolits. Clean alloy like nuclear medicine shields or foundry alloy doesn't require as much cleaning.

We need to do three things to our alloy: Clean, reduce oxides, and flux.

Cleaning is accomplished by mechanical action, stirring and skimming dirt, sand, steel clips, rust flakes, copper jackets, whatever. A slotted spoon is adequate.

Oxide reduction is next. We need to deal with the oxide dross formation on top of the metal, whether in smelting pot, or a freshly-melted casting pot full of clean ingots. Boolit alloy dross is very rich in valuable tin, so we need to turn it back into useable metal rather than skim and toss it. The opposite of oxidation is a chemical process called "reduction", so if we induce a reduction/oxidation reaction on top of the metal, we can save the scum. Combustion is a redox reaction. Anything that will burn will trade electrons with the oxidized metal, sort of "stealing" the oxygen and freeing the tin and other metals from the scum so they go back into the alloy. Grease, wax, oil, sawdust, anything like that will work to reduce oxides, and if your alloy is clean of other contaminating metals waxes work fine for this job.

Now, about Fluxing. This is the part that seems to confuse everyone. If your alloy came from wheel weights or other dirty scrap, it likely contains a bunch of other metals that don't cast very well and mess up the flow, or FLUX, of the alloy. This makes it tough to cast good boolits. Things we want to get rid of are zinc, aluminum, iron, calcium, and a few others. Since what we want to get rid of is all pretty much more difficult to reduce than lead, tin, and antimony, we can remove it through adsorption. With a "d". Things that work really well at removing the oxides of contaminating metals are molten borate glass and the carbohydrates in wood. Wax won't do it. The problem with borates (such as Marvellux) is that they don't reduce any of the oxides at all, including tin, they just adsorb them and remove them from the alloy. If you want to save your tin/antimony/bismuth/lead oxides, use sawdust because it saves the good stuff and adsorbs the bad stuff so it can be skimmed and thrown away with the ash when it has finished burning.

So again, sawdust, being a hydrocarbon, will also reduce tin/lead/antimony oxides we want to save while adsorbing the remainder of the junk we want to remove and capturing it in the ash. Two for one, so to speak. Resiny, pine sawdust, particularly sappy yellow pine, is one of the best reducant/fluxes I have ever used because the resin is such a fine and quick sacrificial reducant, quickly reducing the good stuff so it won't get adsorbed, but leaving the oxidized trash metals for the carbon to soak up as the wood chars.

Sawdust and ash cannot get below the surface of the melt and cause problems unless you drag it down there physically so that it gets trapped below the surface tension of the alloy at the bottom of the pot. Carrying ash down there on the end of a fresh ingot, a handful of sprues, or by scratching around on the bottom of the pot with a wooden stick are the principle ways of getting ash junk on the bottom where it will migrate to the spout and cause inclusions in the boolits. Use common sense and it won't happen. A wood stick is the bee's knees for scraping all the stuck, baked dross off the sides of the casting pot, it reduces oxides on contact.

Gear

I don't know how else to explain it.

Yes, I use wax sometimes, particularly to keep oxide dross managed when ladle-casting, but that alloy has already been cleaned at least twice with sawdust before casting. Wax, bacon grease, sawdust, pet bedding, Crisco, yard leaves, engine oil, candle stubs, all useful stuff, but it's helpful to know WHAT to use, and WHEN to use it.

It's kinda pointless to use sawdust only to reduce oxides in a fresh pot of foundry-certified Lyman #2 when wax will do as well or better, but what about all the trace junk metals in that barrel of battery cable ends, fishing sinkers, and scuba weights? Do you really think merely using a reducant will remove zinc, calcium, iron, aluminum, etc?????? If you don't think it needs removing, carry on with whatever makes you happy. But don't come crying to me that you have to run your alloy at 800 degrees because it won't fill out at lower temps, or has dross inclusions, or other problems. I explained how to take care of the common contaminants above. If you don't have them, just use a reducant like wax.

Gear

[ratitude]

Such a waste of bacon grease IMO.

But the smell of bacon everyone you pull the trigger - priceless. Need to make some bacon lube...

[dragon813gt]

But the smell of bacon everyone you pull the trigger - priceless. Need to make some bacon lube...

Now bacon lube would most certainly not be a waste. Everyone will want to know what you're shooting that day :laugh:

[geargnasher]

Here's another good thread on fluxing with sawdust:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?184987-Fluxing-with-sawdust-tell-me-how&highlight=sawdust

Gear

[shadowcaster]

Science progresses and new knowledge is acquired everyday. Just because wax was the standard back in the day does not mean that modern science has not discovered it's true properties and function. Sawdust does a more complete job as a flux, and wax fulfills it's place as a reducer.

Shad

[country gent]

I have always used wax but am goingto give the wood chips a try aftr reading about it here and other posts. The thought of be able to use something I normally throw out is appealing.

[shadowcaster]

The one thing that I have discovered about waxes and oils during the smelting process is that it does do a excellent job pulling all the lead, tin, and antimony away from the steel clips and copper jackets. With that said.. after I scoop out all the solid junk, I then still need to flux/clean my alloy with sawdust.

Shad

[jsizemore]

I guess back in the day casters didn't have to worry about undesirable elements in their melt like we do today. 'Fluxing' was a much simplier process. The experts that write the books are speaking from their experience 'back in the day'. Times have changed and our sources of alloy are not as 'clean' as they used to be. Fortunately we have kept up with the change through experimentation and being able to get the word out via this and other forums.

I actually learned about sawdust fluxing from a bullseye shooter back in the early 90's at a silhouette match. He used oil soaked sawdust and stirred with a stick. Got my Grand Slam shortly after his lesson.

[Frozone]

...... Need to make some bacon lube...
Shame we can't 'assist' the Syrians and supply them cast boolit ammo with bacon lube ;-)

[jsizemore]

Would bacon smoke be considered chemical warfare? I'll volunteer some bacon trimmings.

[williamwaco]

Gear,

RE: Above quote:

That is the first time I ever really understood it.

Thanks


.

[like it all]

Just started casting again, and I decided to stop using paraffin. I always hated the smoke and flames, with the associated mess. Switched to the commercial stuff from Midway. It seems to work as well, separating the scum from the metal, without the smoke and mess.

[eljefeoz]

Gear:
Thanks for the re cap.
I still check my alloy and use cedar chips -just a couple - clean out dross , BW or plain ol candles and clean up the alloy before I pour my CB.
I learnt in the last casting session-better to have wood than a thermometer. The way that mushy oat meal went to silvery alloy with a handful of cedar chips was very educating.
The animal fat off the BBQ-truly a 'sacrificial' reductant ,aye?
Yup,I ladle cast.

[Lead Fred]

Used to use wax.

Then Mr Martin sent me a pile of his magic wood flakes.

Have not gone back to wax

[WRideout]

I have used paraffin wax ever since my stepfather showed me how to cast, ca 1986. Occasionally I will use wood chips, and stir with a stick, but I haven't found by experience that it is any more beneficial than wax. I may be losing some tin in my pistol boolits, but I can't tell any difference at the range.
Wayne

[Mal Paso]

Used to use wax.

Then Mr Martin sent me a pile of his magic wood flakes.

Have not gone back to wax

Do you mean PatMarlin?

I use course Cedar Sawdust in the smelting/blending pot outside and RandyRat's Beeswax for the casting pot inside.

[Larry Gibson]

So here's the point; The OP asked a simple question....."So who else breaks all the rules and just fluxes with wax without any problems?

That's pretty clear and straight forward. He didn't ask if something fluxes better or worse than wax or what other fluxes anyone is using...........he simply asked who uses waxes for fluxing........

I still use wax and thank the others who do use waxes for fluxing who answered. As for the rest of it..........we've heard it all before and simply because science has progressed to something "new" (if we can call sawdust new?) it does not mean that wax as a flux all of a sudden doesn't flux anymore or good enough to produce excellent cast bullets..........The OP, myself or others certainly didn't "fill the world with mystic opinion, confuse facts of science, justify it all with red herring fallacies, and bring everyone, especially newcomers to the hobby, down to your level of ignorance"....we simply stated we used waxes as a flux in answer to the OP's question. Somehow some of these threads sure do get side tracked from the simplistic question of the OP.........

Larry Gibson

[wistlepig1]

WAX and proud of it

[1bilmr59]

A lot of good info Thanks

[Airman Basic]

Now that I think about it, when I'm smelting wheelweights, my flux is all the carbon based **** that's in the bucket of weights. Oil, rubber, cigarette butts, toothpicks and other random human detritus. Dang, waxing philosophical now, ain't we?

[bedbugbilly]

I'm new to this forum so not trying to "shake any trees". LOL I've been casting since the mid 60s - have always used a pot over a propane fired single burner - ladle style - mostly round ball and conicals. I've always used beeswax - don't ask me how I got started using it as I can't remember. I think I picked that up from a fellow who took me under his wing back then to get me shooting front stuffers. I bought a 10 pound block of beeswax from a apiary a long time ago and still have oodles left. Works for me but everyone has their own favorite method. The one thing about it is that it is always dry with no moisture so therefor I've never had one of those "tinsel moments". Seems to work well so I've just never used anything else. :-)

[warf73]

I also use wax, but on my first fire up of the smelting pot I use old motor oil. Once up and running I use wax for my flux and has worked great. Never had a fillout issue that 1% tin wouldn't fix. Not saying saw dust doesn't work but I'm not going out and buying saw dust KISS has worked for fluxing my alloy.

[jlchucker]

I have used paraffin wax ever since my stepfather showed me how to cast, ca 1986. Occasionally I will use wood chips, and stir with a stick, but I haven't found by experience that it is any more beneficial than wax. I may be losing some tin in my pistol boolits, but I can't tell any difference at the range.
Wayne

Wayne, I've always used the paraffin wax that you can buy in blocks in the canning section of the grocery store. I've tried candle wax, too--and can't tell the difference. After reading all of the stuff in this thread, come springtime when I start casting again I've got to try some of the methods that the guys have been posting about. I think I'll pass on the motor oil method, though.

[shooterg]

"waxing" philosophical, Airman ? Groan !!

[mdi]

I don't believe there is a "best" flux. I have used a whole lot of stuff for fluxing and all worked to some extent. I have used all kinds of wax from bullet lube to paraffin, beeswax, and candles. All worked to some extent. I researched what flux does and tried some crushed BBQ charcoal briquettes. Worked, but way too much work. I read about sawdust and tried it. Works for me and it's free and just at the other end of my shop, just 12 feet away and that's real handy. For me, sawdust is the "best". For you wax may be the "best". It's all in what works for you and you are satisfied with the results...

[shoot-n-lead]

So here's the point; The OP asked a simple question....."So who else breaks all the rules and just fluxes with wax without any problems?

That's pretty clear and straight forward. He didn't ask if something fluxes better or worse than wax or what other fluxes anyone is using...........he simply asked who uses waxes for fluxing........

I still use wax and thank the others who do use waxes for fluxing who answered. As for the rest of it..........we've heard it all before and simply because science has progressed to something "new" (if we can call sawdust new?) it does not mean that wax as a flux all of a sudden doesn't flux anymore or good enough to produce excellent cast bullets..........The OP, myself or others certainly didn't "fill the world with mystic opinion, confuse facts of science, justify it all with red herring fallacies, and bring everyone, especially newcomers to the hobby, down to your level of ignorance"....we simply stated we used waxes as a flux in answer to the OP's question. Somehow some of these threads sure do get side tracked from the simplistic question of the OP.........

Larry Gibson

X 2

Have used wax all of my years of casting and have never seen where I short changed myself. My alloy pours fine, fills out well and make bullets that shoot straight. That is all that I really need for it to do.

[gwpercle]

When I started, my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook instructed me to use " tallow, beeswax or bullet lubricant", so I did for 40 or so years untill I discovered, on this site ...no thats wrong...sawdust is the magic flux. So I have been using sawdust, wood shavings, pencil sharpener shavings, a combination of beeswax and shavings and have even used the disdained Marvelux....and guess what...it all works.
I use Marvelux first and if it needs more fluxing I will add some melted beeswax with wood shavings just for the heck of it and I really can't see any difference in the end result. Marvelux smokes a lot less and doesn't smell bad. A small amount of cedar ( pencil sharpener) shavings and beeswax smokes a little but smells good.
As far as I can tell it all works so just use whatever is handy , cheap and available or whatever you like to use.
Gary's $0.02

[jmort]

Sounds like we have some "reducers" here. Nothing wrong with that, as long as they don't discourage actual fluxing by new members.

http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_Chapter_4_Fluxing.htm

[kenyerian]

The guys that got me started casting back in the 60's were plumbers by trade so we used wax toliet rings. Since they have all retired I use old candles that my wife saves for me and sawdust. basicaly what ever is handy and if it's free so much the better.

[dikman]

Thanks for posting that, jmortimer, it's one of the many things I've read (and forgotten about!). It actually explained why I shouldn't flux! I shoot roundball/muzzleloaders, so I don't actually want tin in the lead if possible. By not fluxing it causes the tin (well, at least some of it) to oxidise and separate out, thus hopefully reducing the tin component. I'm working through another batch of (pistol) range scrap, this time without flux, and it seems to be working out ok so far by just skimming off all the crud.

[grumman581]

As far as I can tell it all works so just use whatever is handy , cheap and available or whatever you like to use.
Gary's $0.02

Cheap and available is the key for many of us. When smelting, I use used motor oil and sawdust mostly. I have to dispose of my used motor oil *somewhere* and if nothing else, it adds some additional heat to the smelting pot when I still have the steel clips in it. Since I have a power miter saw with a filter on it, I'm always generating plenty of sawdust that I would need to dispose of, so I just dump it in a bucket and put my oil filter in it to drain after I've changed the oil in my car. For casting though, I don't use these since I don't want a large source of flames when I'm inside my garage. I'm more inclined to just use a cedar stick for stirring, some cedar sawdust, or a bit of wax.

[dikman]

Oh well, the theory was good, but in practice I had to resort to flux. The range scrap had so much crud on it that some of it wasn't melting, it just floated in the melted lead! I'm assuming it was to do with surface tension, so I threw in a handful of chainsaw chippings, skimmed that off then followed with paraffin wax. That seemed to do it.

So there, I've gone from no flux to using both types :rolleyes:.

[jonk]

To be quite honest I don't have a dedicated flux. Sometimes it is wax, sometimes sawdust, sometimes a wooden stick, and if I'm just melting down greasy wheelweights for the first time, usually Marvelux. Sometimes I just don't flux, I simply stir the melt now and then.

To be quite honest, I never see a damned bit of difference one way or the other.

[detox]

I just prchased some NEY flux from Midway. I wonder if it is a type of wax?

I quote from instructions: "Slice off small amount and mix into the vortex of the molten alloy as the alloy is being stirred. The flux must be submerged into the center of the mix in order to work properly".

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/260495/ney-vita-b-flux-fluxing-compound-6-oz

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Wax from candle stubs or old crayons has always worked well for me although other solutions may do as well or better. Yes it does smoke and stink and having to light it with a match does work. Use whatever works best for you, but the war department is not going to like whatever you do in the kitchen and even less in the living room, so make the proper plans for your operation. LLS

[detox]

I just prchased some NEY flux from Midway. I wonder if it is a type of wax?

I quote from instructions: "Slice off small amount and mix into the vortex of the molten alloy as the alloy is being stirred. The flux must be submerged into the center of the mix in order to work properly".

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/260495/ney-vita-b-flux-fluxing-compound-6-oz

Ney VIT A B-FLUX is a microcrystalline wax. Finer grade and higher melting point than parafin wax. You peel back cardboard sleeve to cut off piece of this hard wax. It came packaged as shown. Wax has Blue color.

This type of wax is also used as a carving wax in mould making

[Jon]

I've been using candle wax with pretty good results.
I bought some marvelux once, and that stuff just left a mess in my pot.
The pine sawdust sounds like a good idea, since rosin for soldering is basically pine pitch.

[kostner]

My wife loves to burn candles and I get the stubs for fluxing its a good set-up I've used for years.

[DxieLandMan]

I've been using candle wax. no problems with it at all.

[ukrifleman]

Wax from candle stubs or old crayons has always worked well for me although other solutions may do as well or better. Yes it does smoke and stink and having to light it with a match does work. Use whatever works best for you, but the war department is not going to like whatever you do in the kitchen and even less in the living room, so make the proper plans for your operation. LLS

Candle wax works for me!
ukrifleman

[waco]

Been casting since 1999 and parifin wax is all I've used. Works for me.....