New adventure with W296, .357 mag LRNFP 158gr Feel free to join me in my preparation!

[Animal]

Hey guys,

I've used H110 with 158gr Hornaday XTP this year with good results. 15.5 was the sweet spot for my 4 inch barrel Taurus M66. I enjoyed it so much that I made 300. I figured that the 300 might come in handy one day (fill in the blank as to why).

W296, I understand to be the exact same thing as H110. I'll be using a Cast 158gr RNFP from my gun shop (no name boolits). I've selected the boolits that fit my throats, stripped the crappy blue lube off of them and pan lubed them with 60/40 beeswax/Vaseline.

I know this load will probably have a GREAT deal of penetration; it seems like these bullets are cast extremely hard. However, this should give me an idea of what powder charges my gun likes along with a lead boolit for when I'm able to cast my own.

I'll be using Lee Modern Reloading 2nd Edition (unrevised version from 2007). Lee doesn't provide specific load data for a lead RNFP, but provides '158 Grain Lead Bullet" on page 557.

I have been setting my C.O.L. between 1.616 and 1.614 on all of my loads because I feel that shortening the gap between the cylinder throat and forcing cone should provide improved boolit travel by entering the rifling asap. This was recommended to my by a fella that is knowledgeable with semi auto pistols, but not so much with wheel guns. I'm open to change if it is necessary. I bring this up because Mr. Lee suggest 1.540 C.O.L. and 14.5 gr is all that is needed.

Like my recent IMR 4227 load that some of you may have followed, there isn't a minimum starting load listed that I can work up from.

-Will it be acceptable to use my 1.616 as a C.O.L.?

-Can I download the charge amount by 3% as a start? Or should I just go with the recommendation of Mr. Lee and do only that one charge weight and C.O.L. specification?

-With my brass trimmed to 1.278, the cannelures seat well below the case mouth by .074 of an inch. This is a bit disturbing. Should I trim my brass to accommodate this?

-I get .3515 from the base of my boolit to the upper-most section of the cannelure. Will this help to establish load data?

-I understand that H110/296 are dangerous powders to play with, should I nix this load until I have a cast boolit with reliable load data that is specified for its dimensions?

Thanks again guys, it has been fun loading with you.

[357Mag]

Animal -

Howdy !

I'm writing you briefly from work, during lunch break...

As regards WW296/H110:
- I've never before heard them described as being particularly " dangerous " to work with ( no more so than other smokeless propellants ).

- 14.5gr WW296 and SP Mag primer under any Lyman ( mine were SWC's ) of 158 -172gr, has been THE load for me ( my guns, my needs ); for 30+yr.
This load was listed in the old Winchester/Olin reloading pamplets as their established " minimum "charge, and one was stronly advised NOT to go lower on the charge.

- This is more than a 3% redux in powder charge wt, compared to you 15.5gr load. Everything works just fine @ 14.5gr; with the boolit wt you have in-mind.

- It is a true " magnum " load, and also worked well in my M1894SC.

- My .357Mag load' c.o.a.l.s have always been taylored to fit S & W "N"-frame .357Mag's, so would also fit in things like M-19 & "L"-frame .357's.
Not having one of these rounds immediately at-hand, I can't say 'xactly what the c.o.a.l. is.

- For my c.o.a.l.s, I always made sure the loaded & crimped rounds would fit the chamber, both for length & diameter. I feed check each one, prior to any firing attempts.
I kept the flat nose of the SWCs just inside the end of the cylinder, and made sure the cylinder was free to rotate. For some boolits, this meant that the crimp was performed
in a non-crimp groove location ( on the boolit body or driving band ). So be it. For me, this has alwaya worked just fine ( Lyman SWC molds 158 - 172 gr ).

- I've not shot any of these loads GC. Leading ( for me ) has not been a problem. PB's work just fine. I myslef have only shot a comparative few 158RNs.


Hope this helps !?


With regards,
357Mag

[rondog]

I've read that these powders can be dangerous if you try to download them below recommended minimums. Stick with published recipes, don't try to make powderpuff loads and you should be fine.

[RickinTN]

Would your OAL fit in the chamber with the bullets crimped in the crimp groove?

[PS Paul]

Animal, you mentioned in the 4227 loading process, you had a couple boolits "jump crimp" and tie up your cylinder. With these cast boolits, use the crimp groove and crimp firmly. Don't stress too much over COL, provided the boolits have a crimp groove.....

110/296 NEED a firm crimp to combust correctly, and the boolit can jump crimp if not crimped firmly.

So, some data:
from Lyman: 358311 158 gr. RN 296 start 13.0 1,115 fps max 18.3 gr 1,460 fps
from RCBS: 158 gr. 296 start 16.0 gr. 1,190 fps max 17.0 gr. 1,247 fps

To me, the 13.0 gr. load seems low and the 18.0 gr. seems high. I use this powder and these boolit weights OFTEN and I normally load 296 in that weight from 14.0 to about 16.5, more or less.

As you discovered with the 4227 experiment, each gun is a law unto itself (not to mention the conflicting data from various sources) and this quest/pursuit for the "best combination" is just another part of what makes this thing we do so very fascinating.

Have fun!

[Animal]

Guys, I decided to nix this adventure. I didn't have enough data to correlate and Hodgdons tech support advised me against it... not so much for safety reasons, but for performance reasons. I may revisit this load at another time.

I decided to do something a little different instead. I'm working up some IMR-PB loads with 158gr xtp. I've used this powder before with cast boolits and liked it for recreational purposes. I'd like to see what this powder can do behind an XTP. It's a cheap powder, small charges do the trick, and I have reliable published data to go off of. Maybe I'll like it. I've got to find some use for all the jacketed bullets I have taking up space. Thanks guys.

[leftiye]

Bleah! 15 to 16 grs 296 has been standard since the 70s. If you stay standard on ctg. LOA, and use mag primers I'd say you're home free. And It's about the best load out there.

If you want to go lower, switch to Lil Gun, it doesn't have the burning inhibitors that 110/296 does (makes it safer to reduce charge), and it about the same burning rate. Same for 300 MP , it being a little slower burning.

Seat in a crimp groove. LOA should be about 1/8" shorter than cylinder. Then observe and ensure that pressures aren't too high (Heh, heh).

[357Mag]

Animal -

Howdy !

My second favorite load in .357Mag is 7.0 IMR 4756, and the boolit weights previously mentioned. Regular SP primer.

It's an accurate & powerful enough load, and only just a tad sooty on clean-up.


With regards,
357Mag

[wv109323]

Winchester advises not to download WW296 from published data. I used 18.5gn. of 296 with a 125 gn JHP in a Contender. Most accurate load I found but it was noisy. Velocity was around 1800 fps IIRC. I used the load in Hunters Pistol Silohoutte. Other people would not shoot beside me due to the noise.

[357mags]

Bud, your wasting time with W296 & H110! For the first few years I reloaded, this is all I bought for my 357mags. I was still in the "Velocity Rules" frame of mind. I tried Alliant 2400 and never looked back! You'll never get the groups you can with 2400. And the loss in velocity at max, or near max charges is negligible. Besides, those silly powders weren't made for cast bullets.

[Char-Gar]

The 357 Magnum round was developed with 2400 powder and the early factory loadings use the same stuff. It still is the "go to" powder for full snort loads.

[FergusonTO35]

I would like to try H110 in my Marlin 1894, anybody ever try it in this gun?

[Animal]

357mags... I love 2400. Unfortunately I won't be loading for the .357 for an unspecified amount of time. I was under the impression that the 296/h110 would be a great load if I worked it up properly, but what I had with 2400 gave me some of the best groups I've had with a friendly amount of recoil. The 2400 would be tough to beat.

[357Mag]

FERGUSON -

Howdy !

Basically, yeh. I tried my favorite handgun load of 14.5gr WW296 and SP Mag primer w/ Lyman 158SWC in an 1894SC.
Worked just fine. H-110 is purported to be the same stuff, and that seems to be the case to me; based on my testing w/ a
benchrest-grade .357AutoMag single-shot bolt rifle.

I had the loaded 1894 carbine in-hand, when I walked in on a local competitive shoot @ my buddies range. It was supposed to be pure handgun drills, but I was allowed to try my hand w/ the 1894.

First drill was from a seated stance at a card table, engage a swinging clanger positioned across the table from the shooter; after the signal to fire.
I took the shot...... and my boolit went right through the clanger !

I apologized profusely to those present, and excused myself from any further inclusion in their contest.

My experience w/ WW 296 in .357Mag certainly is the opposite of that mentioned by 357Mags. For me, 2400 did not outshoot WW296.
I have some 7yd 6-shot groups that I saved from back when I shot a lot as a NRA Handgun instructor. These groups were notably small, considering that I was shooting an honest-to-goodness .357Mag load DA .... as fast as I could pull the trigger.

Accuracy-power-speed. WW296 provided it all.


With regards,
357Mag

[fecmech]

I have shot a lot of both 2400 and 296 in both the .357 and .44 mag. Both are excellent magnum powders and would not feel handicapped by either one. In the .357 and .44 mag my experience is that 296/H110 has the accuracy edge over 2400. I did quite a bit of testing when I shot silhouette and while 2400 is accurate at top end mag loads 296 has the accuracy advantage there. From a versatility standpoint 2400 has a wider range of usage including many excellent cast bullet rifle loads. If I want to go fast in the .357, 296 is my first choice.

[osteodoc08]

Animal,

Don't be afraid of H110/W296. It IS my powder of choice for all out magnum velocity. But it comes with a few caveats. Magnum primer, firm crimp, don't download.

I think you need to be a little more methodical. Decide what your purpose is and then tailor your loads accordingly. You want powder puff lead loads, look at trail boss powder. You want an average, run of the mill load with jacketed or lead- HP38/W231. You want all out H110/W296. These are the 3 powders I use the most in my revolvers. Auto pistol I add Power Pistol and that takes care of most of what I want/need to do.

Once you figure out what you want to do, we can help you figure out components.

Without knowing more about your generic lead bullets, I'd hold off on using the H110/W296. I usually reserve that powder for a GC design and all out loads.