.45-70 minimum charge Swiss No. 4?

[earshot]

Hi all,
I've been shooting my model 1885 with casefull loads Swiss No. 4 topped with a Lee soft cast 405 gr. No problems: shoots like it's supposed to.
However, a lot of my shooting is on short range (25 meters) and I feel like I'm burning up a lot of expensive (!) powder for no reason.
So I have been experimenting with redusing the BP charge and filling the empty space with semolina. Now, a filled case (slightly more than up to bottom of the bullet) is about 59 grains weight.

Now the question: is there some minimum charge per volume that has to be used? Like for instance, never load less than 40-50% of case volume with BP?

['74 sharps]

If your referring to 4F (your Swiss No.4) powder, that is not the correct grade to use in a 45-70. The most used grinds are 2F, 1 1/2F, and 3F. I'd save the 4F for priming a flintlock.

[w30wcf]

'74 Sharps,
Swiss No. 4 is actually 1 1/2F. 4F is Swiss No. 1. Kind of a backwards numbering system......

earshot,
Welcome to the forum. Loading b.p. with airspace is not the greatest idea even though early .45-70 Armory cartridges were loaded that way (140 gr r.b., 5 grs. b.p. / 240 gr bullet, 20 grs b.p. / 300 gr. bullet, 30 grs. b.p.). In my experience fouling will increase more than normal and accuracy will suffer.

What you could do is take a fired case and thumb seat the bullet as far as it will go, then measure the o.a.l. (length). Using the same case, place enough b.p. into it so that the length is at least 1/8" longer for a bit of compression. Load the resized cases to those specifications.

You could also use corn meal, grits, etc. to fill the space between a lesser charge of b.p. (ex. 30 grs,) and the bullet as it is normally seated.

w30wcf

[45bpcr]

Hello Earshot,

Try ordering a bag of these to take up space in the case.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=163375&CAT=4117

45bpcr

[earshot]

I know that leaving an empty space is dangerous for the gun, hence the use of semolina (is it the right word? It's commonly used as a filler for BP cartridges here in the Netherlands). Does anybody know about the minimum ratio of BP vs Filler that can safely be used?

PS. Thanks for the welcome. Been reading this forum for a while but do not post that much. Only BPC I load is the .45-70 but I also shoot lots of nitro with it. Been casting for 25 years for my pistols and .308 rifle. Blackpowder is stuff I just discovered a couple of months ago.Before that, I always despised the stuff as smelly and dirty ;-)

[Don McDowell]

There really is no ratio of bp to filler that you can use. Just so long as you have enough powder to get the bullet out the barrel is the main thing. Whether or not you get any accuracy will be the next question.
Dried coffee grounds can also be used for filler.

[country gent]

In my 45-90 for a light load I went to 65 grns of 2 f goex powder a card wad of napa rubber fiber .060 and 20 grn volumn( Black powder) of cream of wheat a thin card wad and gease cookie card wad and my paper patched bullet Load is performing to 500 yds so far. Well it performs better than I can hold it LOL. Its pretty much duplicating the 45-70s performance and recoil. If you have a working load drop the podewr charge and add the same volumn of filler seems to work. Keeps compresion the same and stack up correct. My full power load is 85 grns of 2 f goex. A long day when shooting shilouettes.

[Texantothecore]

My .45-70 likes 15 grns of 2f with roundball.

I have heard of 6 grn loads but i am not sure how good they are with roundball.

[kokomokid]

I have used cork, felt or lube cookies to take up space on light loads. Brass needs to be clean on the inside or a wad stack can stretch it. I would NOT use ldpe in a stack. LB

[Baja_Traveler]

Minimum load I've ever done in my 45-70 is 50gr Swiss 1 1/2 under a 330gr Gibbs. I use Pufflon as a filler - the combination makes for a great BPCR chicken load...

[earshot]

I have used cork, felt or lube cookies to take up space on light loads. Brass needs to be clean on the inside or a wad stack can stretch it. I would NOT use ldpe in a stack. LB


Sorry, can you explain what is 'ldpe'?

[John Boy]

Sorry, can you explain what is 'ldpe'?
Low Density Polyethylene ... for a source, many food containers use it for packaging

[earshot]

If I load my .45-70 cases with 41 gr. Swiss No.4, I top it with about a (.38 super) case full of semolina before I place the 405 gr. bullet. Just wondering if the semolina would cause some sort of a 'beadblast-effect' inside the barrel?

[Idahojoe]

I have loaded 35-40g 2F in 45-70 and the balance with cow. Accurate short range load. Same with rnd ball, 1/2 moa @ 50yds.

[earshot]

Amazing....with round ball? How does that work? And what rifle?

[bigted]

I also have done the 40 grain 2F GOEX loads and they are very fun behind a LEE 459-405-HB boolit. it does well in my winny '85' and the cleanliness is such that an easy 5 shot string is made with no blowing nor swabbing. my load consists of the 40 grain powder and then fill the rest of the case up to within 1/4 inch with cornmeal. this allows a nice compressed load with a .060 vegi wad over the CM and these rounds are so fun that you will never build so many that you will bring them home unfired.

the other load I recently do is a 55 grain 2F powder and then a 1/8th inch felt followed by a .060 inch vegi wad this load is also able to compress with the LEE boolit. this is a proper load and also is very fun in my 1885.

you can not load little enough powder to filler ...[unless like Don mentioned ... "it gets stuck in the barrel"]. thing is that you will need to use enough filler on top of the powder to properly compress it enough that it does not 'mix' with the powder and somehow nullify the powder ignition.

have fun ... just take care to not load with any air space as this is frowned on for reasons that can be explained far better by somebody else.

[bigted]

wowww looks like that last was my 2000th post here. wish it were a little more memorable or maybe unforgettable or quotable. however half me brain is frozen and the other half is still not thawed out yet.