First post here, the single shot forum seems to be the closest for what I do

[roachcreek]

I am new here but not so new to casting, I have been doing it for 42 years, or is it 43?

Lately, the last couple of years have been casting for air rifles, and I am thinking that perhaps HPA, high pressure air, may be the best way to launch cast bullets.

Rash statement I know, especially for a newby, but I have cast for smokeless in rifles up to 45/70 and down to 30 caliber in various calibers, black powder in 45/100 to 38 SW. The last couple of years it has been for air rifles, the Ranger 45 and the Haley 257 Scandalous.

The Ranger 45 is basically 45 Colt in power but can throw 410 grain bullets at 800 FPS, where the Haley Scandalous is shooting at the cast bullet starting loads realm of the 25-20 Winchester.

I am lucky in that I can cast my bullets, weight sort them and then shoot them after sizing and lubing out to 280 yards and never travel more than 100 feet. So I cast and shoot almost every day.

I have a 280 yard target set out at 280 yards that is a 4x3 piece of sheet steel with a suspended, from a center bolt , 8 inch gong.

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG2239_zpsb7e5fdf0.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG2239_zpsb7e5fdf0.jpg.html)\\

The range, you can just make out the with plate at 280 yards just above the 257464 on the scope turrent.

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG2435_zps3760bd2e.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG2435_zps3760bd2e.jpg.html)

View from the target to the house and shooting bench

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG1443_zpse54f33b5.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG1443_zpse54f33b5.jpg.html)

Mostly I shoot the Haley Scandalous, it is a PCP air rifle, meaning you precharge it from a 4500 PSI SCBA tank, basically a firemans air tank, or shoot it tethered. It has two 257 TJ barrels, a 1-10 and a 1-14 both are 36 inch barrels that unscrew with hand pressure and fitted with two Leupold VX111 4.5x14 scopes.

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG1804_zpsc3c892ea.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG1804_zpsc3c892ea.jpg.html)

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG1694_zps606e3cf8.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG1694_zps606e3cf8.jpg.html)



I routinely get 5 shot groups in the .5 MOA measurements with the 80 grain NOE, Ideal 257388, Ideal 257464 and NOE 100 grain 257 bullets cast of 20-1 and lubed with Traxx Silicone oil. I size with a Lee .258 sizing die and lube by putting the bullets in a baggie with a few drops of the oil.

280 yard groups with the Haley 257 Scandalous

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG1595_zpsfe3ff2ae.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG1595_zpsfe3ff2ae.jpg.html)

Best one so far but obviously a fluke where the wind gods were smiling down on me
http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG2349_zpsfd7a1c36.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG2349_zpsfd7a1c36.jpg.html)

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG2438_zps52a7bb32.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG2438_zps52a7bb32.jpg.html)

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG2437_zps085f6679.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG2437_zps085f6679.jpg.html)



You get the idea



But so far my crowning achievement in shooting is what is considered to be the longest successful Utubed videoed shot with an air gun, 615 yards hitting a 12 oz soda can. We in cast bullet air gunning use a 12 oz soda can because you can get them anywhere, and we utube the shots after a Rangefinder shot. I did this on a property I lived on for 15 years that has a 1100 yard range, I am very familiar with the range of course having shot on it everyday for well over a decade with everything from SR25's to Sharps Borschardt in 45/100 and now with the Haley.

The Rangefinder view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxkgNlvs6Lw

The Equipment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxalPh0FV7c

The shot at 615 yards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd9GXcrnZrM



Prior to that I had shot 12 oz cans at 502 and 52 yards, all of which broke the standing record of air gun long range shots.

Now I have stated that HPA may be the best way to launch cast bullets, let me tell you why.

1.) there is no heat to cause vaporized leading, we do get leading but it is from transfer lead, the type you get rubbing a bullet on a piece of steel. The more we shoot, the cooler the barrel gets.

2.) there is no deforming force upon ignition, we operate ant much lower pressures, I myself shoot at 3500 PSI, so the bullet is not bumped up, however you must make sure your around .001 above bore diameter.

I cast for several different 257 bullets, and just bought yet another Ideal/Herters mold off Ebay, a 100 grain spritzer, but I also cast for a 94 grain Loverin design, a 100 grain NOE, a 80 grain NOE, 80 grain 257388 and a 257420 HP.

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG2367_zps725c0a49.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG2367_zps725c0a49.jpg.html)

I am almost always below sonic, if I am above sonic I turn the air down for accuracy suffers. I use the 1-14 twist barrel in the kit for 70 to 84 grians and the 1-10 for 84 and up.

I have one of the last Haleys rifles made, the builder has terminal cancer and is building no more rifles so they are at a premium.

Regards,

Roachcreek

[2wheelDuke]

That's pretty cool. I don't know much about the PCP guns, but I'd like to get one someday, especially since I could cast for it.

[waksupi]

Welcome aboard. Lots of budding airgun interest on this board. Educate us!

[MT Chambers]

I am casting for my 2 airguns as well, my .25 is an Air Arms and my .303 is a Daystate Wolverine, for those interested, the .25 is actually .251" and the .303 is actually .300", so you really can't use the many std. sized molds out there. Both guns are repeaters, and so far the .303 shoots very nice groups out to 125 yds, with the 50 gr diablo pellets.

[GARD72977]

I don't know if I am envious that you have made such amazing shots or that you live on a 200+ yard range. Just wondering what country you are from?

[roachcreek]

I live in Western Oregon, the 615 yard range is at my old mountain place in eastern Oregon. It was the only house in 110 sq miles when I lived there and had a 1100 yard range.

Here is a video of a single shot at the 280 yard plate here on the vineyard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNz38yHi0Xk

I shot the AirForce Condor when I first got started in cast bullets in air guns, I had Veral make me a 56 grain .256 mold. I have found the single most detrimental feature on air guns to accuracy is that choked barrel. I put a lot of lead down range until I figured that one out.

The Walther barrels seem to have a groove diameter of around .255 and then choke down to .251 for the last inch or so.

One of my old Sharps rifles, I gave this to my boy when he got back from Iraq, it is a 1878 Borschardt, engraved with Krieger barrel in 45 2.6.

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/DSC06861.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/DSC06861.jpg.html)

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/DSC06850.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/DSC06850.jpg.html)

My Ranger 45

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG1814_zps6e98430c.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG1814_zps6e98430c.jpg.html)

The 410 grain Accuratemolds slug I use in the Ranger 45

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/1999%20match%20results/DSC06209.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/1999%20match%20results/DSC06209.jpg.html)

[roachcreek]

They are the most economical guns to shoot there is....once you get all the equipment to feed them.

You need a source of air and a way to store it, which means you need a 4500 PSI scba tank and a fire department or paintball shop to fill it, the other alternative is a compressor.

I have a Shoebox Freedom 8 compressor, it is a second stage compressor, the first stage being my shop compressor.

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/DSC07389.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/DSC07389.jpg.html)

All this is expensive, but once you have it, even buying alloy from Rotometals my shooting runs me around $2.50 per hundred, and is always available as long as I keep a pile of lead ingots on the floor.

Almost all my shooting is done from the bench these days, so I shoot tethered and regulated to a 4500 PSI bottle. I will shoot the bottle down from 4500 PSI to around 3500 PSI and then refill it with the Shoebox, that takes about a hour and a half. I have 5 bottles so I don't run out of air.

[Baja_Traveler]

Just wondering what country you are from?

OHH! Let me guess! - based on the vineyard, the pines and the little clues in each picture, I'd say in the US - somewheres around Humbolt?

Edit: Posted while I was typing - Few hundred miles off...

[roachcreek]

Douglas firs not pines is what threw you off. I get a lot of folks thinking we live in N California.

But we do have California ground squirrels if that helps.

[Piedmont]

That's cool. Thank you for posting and I hope you stick around.

[Spruce]

Very cool and interesting. I really like all the photos. Nice looking Sharps. Welcome to the site.

[MT Chambers]

I like the Borchardt as well, always wanted one, as well as a Hepburn, but back to the topic....I think we need an airgun section, as the larger airgun cals. get more popular, casting for them will as well.

[leeggen]

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like we have a keeper here so we can learn more about shooting cast bullets.
Just wondering do you use any lube at all on those boolits???
CD

[hightime]

Thanks for posting. Very interesting.

Owen

[roachcreek]

I am a member of several forums. Mainly the TAG, aka Talon air gun forum and the Yellow forum.

Cast bullets in air guns are really starting to take off. Myself and Tofasfou, are pushing the limit of air guns as far as power and long range accuracy. Tofasfou started what we call the Pepsi Challenge, which is shooting a 12 oz soda or beer can as far out as you can hit it.

Tofasfou started the ball rolling with a 447 yard hit and it was followed by Dyotat, Doug Knoble. They were using modified AirForce rifles made my Doug with TJ barrels and enhanced valves.

I then first broke the record at 502 yards with 4 hits and then at 552 yards, then two months later with the 615 yard hit on my signature.

I have another gun being made that hopefully will push a 125 grain RCBS bullet, cast of 20-1 weighing around 130 grains close to 1030 FPS and take that record closer to 700 yards.

Realistically at that range your dealing with a cone of fire. Obviously your not going to be shooting a 12 oz soda can sized group, so you determine the wind adjustment and keep shooting until you connect, making corrections along the way. It needs to be videoed or Utubed and a Rangefinder view shown.

But dealing with a 20 foot ballistic arc and 4 foot wind corrections it is challenging.

The sport is young and as of now it is unknown where it will take us.

[Tatume]

Please educate us. What is out there and where to find them? I see Jack Haley is not well, and I'm sorry.

[roachcreek]

Bear in mind a air rifle will cost around $1100.00 and up for a basic rifle. With air guns we have to hold the energy inside the gun and meter it out with a valve struck by a hammer, where with a fire arm your technology is in the cartridge for the most part.

All cast bullet air guns are PCP or pre charge pneumatics that fill from a scba, firemans bottle. You don't want to try and pump these with a air gun pump, they fill at too high a pressure and very few pumps will even get to that threshold.

For the smaller bores, 257, there is not much out there. Dyotat on the TAG forum was converting AirForce frames to his valve and hammers and TJ barrels in 257 and 30 caliber, he was buying everything out of his own pocket, but he was also working his day job 15 hours a day, his wife was getting lonely so he had to scale back.

RLAirguns in Colorado is fitting TJ barrels to Condors and selling them, but they do not have a lead cut in, which you need, pellets guns get by without a lead, but cast bullet guns need one. I just sent him a email offering to send him some free bullets to work as gauges for cutting leads and testing if he would make them for cast bullet rifles.

Haley is out of the picture, sad because he was on top of the game and along with John Bowman started this cast bullet 257 craze, both are dear friends of mine.

HSExtreme I believe it is called makes rifles 30 caliber and up to 457 he makes good rifles and they are lovely to look at, he at the present time epoxies his barrels in the receiver so they are a little hard to convert to smaller calibers.

XPAirguns makes the excellent Ranger 45 and the 58 and a 12 gauge air rifle, they are cnc produced, and powerful and of course use TJ barrels, they are at least one to two years behind on orders as the owner does this as a side hobby to his hydraulic business. His 45 guns are not 457 but are 452 so you can shoot off the shelf bullets, I never found this working out too well as the off the shelf bullets are too hard.

There is one company coming down the pike that I am not at liberty to disclose until I get his prototype to shoot, it will be a very powerful one shot rifle, but can be adjusted for two shots, it should be able to push a 130 grain 257 to 1030 FPS and exceed 300 FPE and for a BB gun that is not too shabby. IT will be available from 257 to 338, it has the ability to be a two caliber rifle, but whether he will make it that way will be the question, I have a first dibs in for a 257/338.

Converting air gun and using the air gun barrel is a poor endeavor, in the end you have to cut the choke off and have a custom mold made and hope it works, and it will to some degree, but you far better off with less time spent to just rebarrel to the TJ barrel and get a off the shelf mold, most shooters prefer to use the 257420 by the way after rebarreling.

On lube, I have used, none, spray moly, chainsaw oil, Lee alox, Imperial sizing wax that I just left on after sizing and 10 WT Silicone oil.

Right now I use the 10 weight Silicone oil, place the bullets in a baggie after sizing and put in a few drops of oil and roll the around, then shoot from the bag.

I get around 45 shots before I need cleaning with a 1000 FPS velocity.

Important note here s that with air we use a finite source for energy, we do not have the horse ower to bump bullets up or size them down upon ignition, so it is best to be .001 or less over groove diameter. We use custom ordered Lee Precision dies, but they are all over the map as far as dimensions for the same size, ie three of us woho had .258 dies measured our bullets and we had three different measurements.

I like to promote air gun cast bullet shooting, I don't sell anything, just want to see the sport get started, and this was my primary reason for joining this fine forum.

[roachcreek]

Postscript:

I just got a reply back from Randy at RLAirguns, he is delighted at the offer for assistance to get his AirForce creations set up for cast bullet shooting, so I will send him some bullets today.

Randy who runs the company is good as gold in my book and sells made up rifles. AirForce rifles have a bad tendency to flex, and Randy uses Maddog stocks to avoid this, and they work well, his site is well worth looking at in his custom gun section.

His rifles and a 257420 mold will be the quickest and easiest way to get going in cast bullet air gun shooting.

[waksupi]

I'm moving this into the brand spanking new airguns section. I know there are other related threads. Please notify one of us when you stumble across them, and we can move them in here.

[nekshot]

a list of makers and parts, necesary gear would be nice. I was trying to get info off the internet years ago and it was hard for me to seperate the fluff from the real. I did have a address of a chap in missouri that was building them but he had a long wait list. I am intriqued to say the least and clearly see this in my future.

[roachcreek]

Nekshot,

Right now there are very few makers of air powered bullet shooters, and a few home shops that convert pellet guns by putting on TJ barrels. Rifles need to be PCP rifles for they are the only ones capable of producing the power you need. Air gun barrels do not lend themselves to good cast bullet accuracy, so they need to be originally made to be bullet shooters or be rebarreled with fire arms barrels like the TJ or McGowan barrels

http://www.extremebigboreairrifles.com/Extreme airguns which makes 30 caliber and up to 45 caliber and the wait is not too bad, they may make 257 rifles on request I have heard but not varified.

XPAirguns,https://xp-airguns.com/ which makes 45, 58 and rifled 12 guage, they have a 2 year wait.

RLAirgun Supplhttp://www.rlairgunsupply.com/y, who alters AirForce rifles by putting on TJ barrels and using one of his extreme valves, I just last week sent him some bullets to send off to a ramer maker to make a reamer to cut a lead in the TJ barrels he is seling. I would expect him to be a month away from offering a 257 rifle.

Will Piat of Saddle mountain gunsmithing, https://sites.google.com/site/saddlemountaingunsmith/ converts the Korean big bores to bullets hooters and can rebarrel rifles with TJ barrels.

Sam Yang makes a line of medium powered bullet shooters in 50, 45 and 357 caliber, they are marketed by many different dealers among them Pyramydair,http://www.pyramydair.com/a/Air_guns/Air_rifles/Precharged_pneumatic_PCP/155/calibers_0_5

For compressors, Shoeboxcompressors.com sells a 2nd stage compressor, it hooks up to your oiless shop compressor and is what I use. Having a source of air over and above what a scuba tank will provide is imperative for a scuba tank WILL NOT cut the mustard with these rifles. The AirForce rifle conversions need 3200 PSI, the Extreme and the XP need 4200 PSI, as do the now not made Haley rifles.

DAQ also makes big bore rifles, 30 thru 50 caliber, but they are doled out on a yearly drawing, and I have never really seen any worth while accuracy reports from them.

(When I say things like that in my posts, it means I have not seen shooters and owners of such rifles, or makers of bullets for that matter posting groups at 100, 200 and 300 yards, the fact that they own such fine rifles and are on forums, but don't seem to have digital camera around when they shoot, tends to make me suspicious of their accuracy. But that is just me.)

So the field is pretty narrow.

Another maker should get on line this year and I am holding out great hopes for his rifles and will report on them when they come out as I am supposed to get the prototype to test.

Rifles to stay away from: don't ever, under any circumstances, let anyone, at any time talk you into buying a Crosman Rogue. This was air rifle put out under great hype, that leaked and the factory could not fix them. Hunting video's made of hand selected guns but accuracy was terrible and requests for groups claimed just did not appear. Bottom line is they should have been still born.

[MT Chambers]

It is my understanding that some of the Korean guns also had problems with air leaks, but I have no experience with them, my PCPs are all British, but none are made to their common power range of 12 ft. lbs. I will add the Daystate Wolverine to the list of heavy hitters!!

[nekshot]

Thanks for the info. What would all the needs and approx price be for someone wanting to get in entry level? This is sure facinating.

[MT Chambers]

For me and the hunting that I do with my airguns, a gun that gets between my Wolverine's 12 shots, or my Air Arms with 40 shots, works well, I really couldn't see hunting with only 2 shots and then needing my tank to fill it again, I guess it depends on the type of hunting you are doing. My hunting is for crows, magpies, gophers, badger, beaver, fox, coyote and I do a lot of walking. For target shooting/plinking etc. anything goes as you can "tether" your tank to your rifle at the shooting bench. The problem with some of the lower powered guns is one of trajectory and wind drift at longer ranges, when I shoot, the wind is usually blowing pretty good, and heavier pellets and up to 980fps seems to do best for me.

[Pakprotector]

For me and the hunting that I do with my airguns, a gun that gets between my Wolverine's 12 shots, or my Air Arms with 40 shots, works well, I really couldn't see hunting with only 2 shots and then needing my tank to fill it again, I guess it depends on the type of hunting you are doing. My hunting is for crows, magpies, gophers, badger, beaver, fox, coyote and I do a lot of walking. For target shooting/plinking etc. anything goes as you can "tether" your tank to your rifle at the shooting bench. The problem with some of the lower powered guns is one of trajectory and wind drift at longer ranges, when I shoot, the wind is usually blowing pretty good, and heavier pellets and up to 980fps seems to do best for me.

I am somewhere in the middle between your usage, and RC's...I want the boolit shooter for the long range accuracy and power, but I need something more like a plinking shot count v. 3-4 between re-fills. I have the next bit of equipment on its way, and stuff for the current one to modify...

There is a lot to be said for pellets and their short range work, and the boolits have their own set of advantages, some overlapping the pellets to some extent.
cheers,
Douglas

[roachcreek]

Well the Haley was made to be a bench gun to shoot long ranges, just like many powder burners are and it does that far beyond what any Diablo shooter can regardless of caliber, so shooting tethered is no handicap for me.

It will however put two shots within 2 or 3 inches at 280 yards when it is not tethered, something no diablo shooter is practically capable of. I do see a lot of utility in the 30 caliber pellet shooters, but being a long range shooter, who often shoots 100 shots per day, paying $2.50 for a hundred bullets I can make is far more attractive to me than paying $11.30 for 100 30 caliber pellets, when available, that have a maximum range shorter than I can hit a 12 oz coke can, 615 yards and and my Haley has more energy left at that range of 615 yards than the 30 does at the muzzle, so it is simply what your application for the tool and what you want it to do is.

3 shots from the Haley untethered at 280 yards

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/CIMG2292_zps27dd5942.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/CIMG2292_zps27dd5942.jpg.html)

But we have to remember that the diablo pellet was designed to create drag and slow down quickly for the BSA Improved Mdl D and the Crosman #1 riles around the turn of the century, making them larger in caliber is not going to negate that drag and poor BC. But for shooting short range safely they are the King.

As far as two or three shots, I hunted coyotes commercially for a couple of years in SE Oregon and I only got one to two coyotes at a stand, I did have one stand each year that I would have 4 or 5 come in, but you don't get to shoot at each one they run off at the first shot most of the time or at least the ones that get their genes in the gene pool do.

One year I used a little Ruger # 3 single shot in 223 for my long range gun and a 12 gauge shotgun for the fast movers at 20 to 30 yards and had no trouble, most of those killed in this photo were with that Ruger single shot, there were 58 pelts on the fence line in the full picture so two or three shots would work fine if you can shoot. The year before I used a custom AR I had won the Oregon State Practical Rifle Championship with, and you what, I didn't kill any more coyotes with it than with the #3, so having a one or two shooter is not that much of a handicap if you know what your doing.

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/DSC05665.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/DSC05665.jpg.html)

Elk hunting by walking from my house with a single shot Sharps or Ruger also did not prove to be much of a hindrance to me either, thing is if I needed more than two shots it was because I screwed up. After 50 elk I learned that if you miss that first shot in the brush, you usually had to look for another elk to eat.

This 6 point elk was shot 600 yards from my front door with one shot.

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/DSC06093.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/DSC06093.jpg.html)

This bull was 400 yards from my front door and taken with one shot

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af343/chbartlemay/DSC03172.jpg (http://s1022.photobucket.com/user/chbartlemay/media/DSC03172.jpg.html)

But they are all good and they can all be enjoyed for what they are, today I shot pest birds out to 80 yards with my little FX Tarantula out of the tops of Doug Firs, I did this knowing the Diablo would slow down at the extreme end of it's flight path of 450 yards or so. I got 20 or so shots before I would refill, but then I am always close to air.

We buy the tool designed for the job we want to do and if it is not made, we have the tool designed and made for the job we want it to do, it is a personal thing.

[Gunslinger1911]

Hey Roachcreek - great info, sweet airguns ! I have been thinking of getting into PCP for a while - hard to get to the range as much as I would like ! Have a FWB 300 that is a hoot in the back yard.

What do you know about the Benjamin Marauder ? I see you do the "boolit" air guns, from reading your posts, I would value your thoughts about the "pellet" PCP's for a beginner. Eventually would like to get to the big bores.

[roachcreek]

The MRod as it is called is a great entry level air rifle if you get it in 177 or 25 caliber, in 22 it has accuracy problems and the barrels are suspect. In 25 it is very accurate and it is very quiet.

Also Maddog stocks and RLAirgun have teamed up to make a Bullpup kit for it that is a drop in. Your going to have close to a grand in one with a good scope and you need some way to charge it with air. A frlow named Jim Gaska aka Marmotmiltia sells barrels , shroud extensions, air tube extensions and LW drop in barrels.

Detractions are again the accuracy problems in 22 and the fact that the stock looks like it can do dual duty as a fence post.

If you don't mind getting what is called a refurbished rifle, one that has been returned to the factory for one reason or another and refurbished, they can be had for around $330.00.

A good Mrod in 25 with JSB Kings will give you a half inch at 50 yards on most days.

Packprotector on this forum is working on converting one to shoot 22 cast bullets.

[Pakprotector]

The marauder has a very fine trigger, and reasonable air storage. The pellet barrels can do acceptable work with cast boolits, but a barrel made for boolits is far perferred. Their firing valve needs a substantial re-work; it is capable of ~75 FPE in bored-out stock configuration, and I have gotten 95 FPE with some more involved mods( a 25 cal with a hammer forged BSA barrel with not much choke ). Their OE barrels are only 20" long, and higher power likes 'em longer( RC's Haley is 36" long ). The 25 Auto liner from TJ will work with pellets, though if chambered for 53 gr, RN 25 auto boolits I suspect that may suffer a bit. The 53 gr 25-050-RN and 252435 boolits will both fit the 8-shot magazine...so repeater capability is preserved.

I am building a 22, with the 14" twist, .224 liner from TJ. Valve significantly improved, and mass added to the hammer. I have also arranged for a 500cc tank to replace the front end of the air tube. More air storage is quite useful. up to ~44 gr 22 boolits can fit the 8-shot 25'cal magazine( the 22 and 177 have s shorter mag ). Longer, heavier boolits will want a faster twist rate anyway, and shot count suffers as you turn up the energy...LOL and they would want a longer barrel, and higher pressure and...

The stock 25 cal can run MOA at 100 with pellets if there is little wind( and/or you're able to dope successfully for what there is ).

Useful stuff would include a 4500 psi SCBA tank, and a rig to connect it to the gun to fill. At the rate high power consumes air, pumping can be a chore and a haff. those two bits alone will run in the neighborhood of $400.
cheers,
Douglas

[Gunslinger1911]

Thanks for the info guys !

Off topic - but, Pakprotector, Larry Niven, Ringworld universe fan ?

[NVScouter]

I'm sorry to hear about the Rogue, I wanted one until I saw the pricetag. The first "hunting" video also turned me off with the fences in the background and the hog had an ear tag..............

I think a Sam Yang 45-50 is going to be on my shelf before next doe season however.

I have a .258 Ideal mold made when the 250-3000 Savage came out. Its around 87g spire point if you want a few let me know.

[Pakprotector]

Thanks for the info guys !

Off topic - but, Pakprotector, Larry Niven, Ringworld universe fan ?

Yes indeed, sci-fi in general...since you recognize it, you should consider 'The Flying Sorcerers', by Niven and Gerold( if you have not alreadyfound it ). I should have had the second P capitalized...lol
cheers,
Douglas

[Gunslinger1911]

Thought so ....... Have read just about everything Niven has written, really like the collaborations with Stephen Barnes and Jerry Pournell.

Back on topic - What are thoughts on using CO2 in the Marauder ? I figure a slow shooting cadence would keep the velosity somewhat constant. (Already have a 5' CO2 tank for paintball lol)

[roachcreek]

The Korean gun as a general rule need to have some trigger work and tuning done on them by the likes of Will Piatt before they are truly a contendor. Most shooters claim they are good for about 50 yards, but this is from what I have read, I have never owned one. Butcher on the TAG shot one for years and really liked it, don't remember if his was tuned, but knowing Butcher I suspect it was.

There was a post on the Yellow yesterday talking about this same subject and a few owners chimed in with the above information about 50 yard limitations and very hard triggers.

For the price Will charges and the still limited power you have from them afterwards, the American made and more powerful Extreme is a good bargain at 1200 bucks.

[longbow]

Okay then, I should have started reading this thread first! I started asking questions on another thread that this one mostly answers.

Good info and good links. That answers a lot of my questions. Now I have a starting point on what's available and where to go for PCP's, not that I can afford the "nice" ones but I can dream a bit until I can. I have been pondering on a Sam Yang as they seem to be okay and in an affordable price range but I won't be jumping in to anything real soon anyway.

Time to read up and look at what the people that know have to say.

Thanks for posting all this good info.

Longbow

[Pakprotector]

Okay then, I should have started reading this thread first! I started asking questions on another thread that this one mostly answers.

Good info and good links. That answers a lot of my questions. Now I have a starting point on what's available and where to go for PCP's, not that I can afford the "nice" ones but I can dream a bit until I can. I have been pondering on a Sam Yang as they seem to be okay and in an affordable price range but I won't be jumping in to anything real soon anyway.

Time to read up and look at what the people that know have to say.

Thanks for posting all this good info.

Longbow

Given that starting point, a 25 Marauder is reasonable. You can run up into boolit shooter power with some inexpensive work, and a 25 auto liner from TJ will fix the rest when/if you are ready to make the leap. I had mine out today, and even limited by a pellet barrel it was grins all around.
cheers,
Douglas

[NVScouter]

Do you have a link to that Extreme?

I dont really know the airgunner resources, and havent found some of the makers/suppliers you've spoken about.


The Korean gun as a general rule need to have some trigger work and tuning done on them by the likes of Will Piatt before they are truly a contendor. Most shooters claim they are good for about 50 yards, but this is from what I have read, I have never owned one. Butcher on the TAG shot one for years and really liked it, don't remember if his was tuned, but knowing Butcher I suspect it was.

There was a post on the Yellow yesterday talking about this same subject and a few owners chimed in with the above information about 50 yard limitations and very hard triggers.

For the price Will charges and the still limited power you have from them afterwards, the American made and more powerful Extreme is a good bargain at 1200 bucks.