Lyman 358429

[Clay M]

Just wondering if the S&W 686 will hold up to shooting a steady diet of this bullet.I plan on using between 12 to 13 gr of 2400.

[GP100man]

I shot a 586 yrs ago & after the first loosening of the ejector rod & screws , then cleaning & loctiting em all It was good to go!

That load should get ya in the 1200fps range & I`ve shot a bunch at 12.5 grs.

& that load will knock holes in `bout anything if placed rite .

[9.3X62AL]

I agree. I use a lot more #358156 than #358429 in my 686 x 4", but the loads you propose are well within the safe service range of the revolver. I have launched thousands of #358156 from L-frame 357s using 13.5 grains of 2400, for 25+ years. It is a current-spec SAAMI-level load, and the 586/686 can digest loads running 7500 PSI over current SAAMI specs.......if fact, it was specifically intended for just that purpose, a lifetime of 42K PSI load work.

[Clay M]

Good to know, I thought it would be fine but just wanted some first hand information.I never try to shoot the hottest loads. I am interested in accuracy.Will be using the 358429 mostly for informal silhouette shooting.

[9.3X62AL]

FWIW, the 13.5 grains of 2400 under #358156 gives 1235 FPS (mean) from the 4" 686. CCI 500 primers light the way, and W-W brass contains the mess. Performance and ballistics closely match my agency's old service load (replaced 2-3 years ago) the 158 grain JHP/W-W 357 Mag.

[Wally]

Just wondering if the S&W 686 will hold up to shooting a steady diet of this bullet.I plan on using between 12 to 13 gr of 2400.

Isn't the 358429 too long to fit in your cylinder...I have a Model 27 and it is a bit too long to work.

[fecmech]

I've been shooting the 358429 since 1970, it's my favorite bullet for max .357 loads. While the classic 13.5/2400 is a good load with that bullet IMO max loads of 296/H110 are just a tad better. Using 15-15.5/296 I get better accuracy and a bit more velocity than 2400. As far as the length of the bullet I just taper crimp it on the front drive band and use it in my GP 100 Ruger.

[Clay M]

The only way to get the cartridge OAL below 1.590 seems to be crimp over the front driving band as stated in the Lyman manual.

[9.3X62AL]

Both the K-frame and L-frame S&W 357 Magnums use longer cylinders than the N-frame 357s, a curiosity FINALLY addressed by the L-frames in 1980. S&W's prior 357s lacked sufficient cylinder length or frame strength to be considered fully viable 357 Magnums. After 45 years, they got it completely correct in Springfield, MA. Not long after that, they started chambering J-FRAMES in 357 Magnum. I truly do not understand the company, at all. Now, it's MIM parts and glory holes.

[Clay M]

I have a J frame .357 as well. It is a deadly piece for self defense.

[9.3X62AL]

Yes, and it kills on both ends. The 357's mean product pressure was down-graded from 42K PSI to 36K PSI to accomodate those little hand-biters, as well. Stupidity atop stupidity, in my view.

[MtGun44]

Which dash model ? A straight 686 or up to about 686-3 or so will eventually
peen the cylinder pivot sleeve (part of the crane) and need to be "stretched" by a gunsmith
after maybe 5000 hot loads. Later dash numbers (and I am NOT at all sure when the change
occurred) have a harder alloy and have no significant problem. Never happened
with 586s.

Bill

[1Shirt]

I like the 12.5 gr. load with that blt in both my Blackhawk and my 94 Win.
1Shirt!

[EMC45]

I like the .358-429 in my NMBH over 13gr. Hercules 2400.

[Clay M]

Do any of you roll crimp on the edge of the front driving band, or use a taper crimp die ?

[sixshot]

Been using that bullet since the 60's & taken a lot of different game with it. 90% of my loads are in 38 special brass, using 2400 powder. Not quite as accurate as the #358156 GC but I don't like using GC's in sixguns.
My most memorable shot with it was on a running jackrabbit, it was after dark & we were driving down a backroad when he bailed out of the ditch, my son swerved to the left as I hung out the window of his suburban. The Keith slug nailed him (luck) at full speed & he rolled 30 feet. My grandson was sitting on a 4 wheeler on the trailer we were pulling & seen the whole show, he was whooping & hollering when we rolled to a stop for photo's. Great bullet.

Dick

[fecmech]

Do any of you roll crimp on the edge of the front driving band, or use a taper crimp die ?
See post #7(taper crimp). Have been doing it that way for about 40 years. I believe it aids accuracy by placing the front drive band in the throat for better alignment.

[Clay M]

Unfortunately everyone seem to be out of the taper crimp seater die.I put one on back order.

[9.3X62AL]

Your present sizing die can do good work as a taper-crimp die--adjust its depth appropriately, remove the decapping assembly, and you can be good to go.

I have a STRONG aversion to taper-crimping and boolit-seating at the same time. You're asking for varying OALs, inconsistent crimps, and (if overdone) reduced boolit diameter.

[Clay M]

I will take the seating stem out of the taper crimp and use it in a minimal way.I don't believe roll crimping would be very effective on the front edge of the first driving band.

[EMC45]

I crimp in the crimp groove. They are just shy of the front of the cylinder when the NMBH is loaded up. I use a firmish roll crimp.

[9.3X62AL]

I will take the seating stem out of the taper crimp and use it in a minimal way.I don't believe roll crimping would be very effective on the front edge of the first driving band.

This would be dependant upon your boolit's form and dimensions. Some of Lyman's #358429 ideations are faithful to Elmer Keith's criteria, and their front drive bands are full-caliber/diameter. In such situations, a roll crimp around the front drive band's front edge can be quite effective. In other ideations, the front drive band is of smaller diameter than the middle and base drive bands.......the roll crimp in these instances may indeed serve no material purpose.

[fecmech]

I didn't know taper crimp dies had seating stems! All I ever used were the CH Taper crimp dies on my auto champ and they have no provision for a seater stem. It's simply an extra station on the press after the seating die..

[9.3X62AL]

I didn't know taper crimp dies had seating stems! All I ever used were the CH Taper crimp dies on my auto champ and they have no provision for a seater stem. It's simply an extra station on the press after the seating die..

RCBS sells their autopistol die sets with a seating die that simultaneously taper-crimps as it seats the bullet. NOT one of the company's better ideas, I much prefer taper crimping as a distinct die step AFTER seating the bullet.

[EMC45]

I use 4 dies when I load revolver or auto pistol rounds. One to seat and another to crimp.

[km101]

Which dash model ? A straight 686 or up to about 686-3 or so will eventually
peen the cylinder pivot sleeve (part of the crane) and need to be "stretched" by a gunsmith
after maybe 5000 hot loads. Later dash numbers (and I am NOT at all sure when the change
occurred) have a harder alloy and have no significant problem. Never happened
with 586s.

Bill

Bill, I have a 686 (no dash) that has well over 10,000 rounds of hot loads, both cast and J-word bullets through it. I have not experienced this problem and had never heard about it. Is this a common problem? I shoot with a few others that own 686's and no one has ever mentioned it.

I bought my 686 6" the first year they came out, and it has seen lots of use in silhouette competition and hunting and has never had a problem other than the ejector rod working loose, and the locking pin peening some.

[MtGun44]

I have personally seen it on one early 686, and my S&W gunsmith friend says he
has fixed a number of them. He says that the problem is people running absolute max
(or even over max, I would bet) loads all the time in the early guns. Maybe it takes
"too hot" loads to do it.

Bill

[9.3X62AL]

I haven't seen or experienced this anomaly with my L-frame revolvers, nor have I heard of its occurrence from friends or customers. I sold A LOT of 586 and 686 revolvers as an FFL. I don't over-load my double-action 357s, though--that is what Blackhawks are made for. :)

[MtGun44]

The gunsmith told me he never saw it happen to a 586 or later model (about 686-4) 686.
I did see the one 686 and it was in great shape except for a substantial amount of end
shake on the cyl. The guy fixed it by stretching the crane and when opened up - it had
been previously stretch once by some other gunsmith!

Bill