Guidance for Hollow Point mold

[Animal]

Hey guys, I haven't even begun to cast. I'm looking into hollow point molds for my .357 mag. I know the old adage of 'you get what you pay for' and 'I can't afford to buy cheap stuff' so I'm willing to pay good money for a good mold.

I haven't seen a whole lot of options for a .358 hp bullet mold. I guess it just isn't that important to most castors to have an hp mold. However, I'd like to get at least one good hp mold that I can use in order to have a decent supply of hollow points... just in case.

I'd rather stay on a budget for a decent 'plinking bullet mold' that can put out a lot of decent boolits fast... I see all the big names have that covered.

What is my best option...? seeking out someone who converts existing molds to hollow points? or going directly to a mold maker that has hp as an option?

This is something I only want to pay for ONCE. Thanks guys.

[Beagle333]

Here's a good option. Beautiful, mean, and in stock!
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=364
(comes in 4 cav too)


http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/cast%20boolits/Picture081_zpsc2e2ea66.jpg

[USAFrox]

Is this a rush-type thing? If not, you can find them in the swapping and selling section here from time to time. If you want it right away, I'd go to NOE's website and get an RG2 or RG4 that looks good, or you can go with Accurate Moulds, and design it yourself. I think Accurate makes HP's....

[Buzz64]

Mihec makes great ones but you are going to wait for months (or years) for a group buy. Try NOE, check his web site he might have one "in stock'. You can get the blank pins also so you can go with HP and solids.

[Buzz64]

Dang, that was a lot of responses in two minutes!

[Animal]

Dang, that was a lot of responses in two minutes!

No kidding! figured I'd see a response in the morning.

[dragon813gt]

Erik can convert an existing mold for you: http://www.hollowpointmold.com/

If you don't mind waiting sign up for a Mihec group buy. There is one for a 158 grain SWC that's active right now. But it's been open for two years and no hope is in site. I have many of his molds in other designs and they're all great.

That NOE mold looks great. I've been using Cramer style molds so I'm not sure how theirs work.

[Animal]

Guys, I can wait a few months on an HP mold. I was just hoping for a few sources. In 2 minutes it sounds like NOE is probably the way to go. I probably should have indicated that I'm interested in a RNFP. Wad cutters and speed loaders tend to not get along as well. Thanks guys.

[Beagle333]

NOE also makes the 360-160 WFN, and it comes in a 180gr version too.
I don't only have NOE molds, but they are the easiest to get without a looooonngg wait. (short of having one customized by a machinist.)
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/DSC03391.jpg

[grubbylabs]

This is the mold I ordered. 358 135Gr. RF RG4 cavity BB. I have been casting regular bullets for a few years, but casting HP's is a little different and it has sure taught me a lot about casting. I bought this mold several weeks ago and I was so happy with making HP's that I bought one for my 45 as well.

[GLL]

..... or you can go with Accurate Moulds, and design it yourself. I think Accurate makes HP's....

Just a point of reference: Tom at Accurate Molds does NOT make HP molds ! BUT you can easily have any of his mold converted to HP by Erik or Buckshot.

There are a LOT of .358 HP mold options out there already though ! I have seventeen myself.

Jerry

[Animal]

Do any of these folks make a hexagonal shape hp mold? I've looked at expansion photos and really like the petaling effect.

I've been looking into Lyman molds for casting plinkers. I really like the 4 cavity 158 round nose flat point pb. I'm attracted to the Lee 6 cavity also, but I'm afraid I'll make a rookie mistake and ruin the mold. I'd hate to lose a good mold to temp negligence and end up with lop sided egg shaped boolits.

[SWANEEDB]

I just got my 10th mold from Al at NOE, 4 of them are HP versions, he is truly a gent to buy from and his molds are outstanding, I do believe all the custom molds here on the forum are of the quality we look for so which ever one you decide on you'll be getting the best.

[Animal]

NOE also makes the 360-160 WFN, and it comes in a 180gr version too.
I don't only have NOE molds, but they are the easiest to get without a looooonngg wait. (short of having one customized by a machinist.)
http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/DSC03391.jpg

That is a deep cavity. Have you done any expansion testing? And does this cavity present any C.O.L. problems because of the large air space required for the HP?

[Beagle333]

That is a deep cavity. Have you done any expansion testing? And does this cavity present any C.O.L. problems because of the large air space required for the HP?
Not really. I use mostly isotope alloy and it just blows the nose off.... but I only shoot water jugs with this. I'm sure it would make a pretty 'shroom if you used some softer stuff.

http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt214/shutupandjump/DSC03452.jpg

It's .300" crimp groove to nose. And it fits just fine in my GP100, which has a fairly short cylinder, compared to my Blackhawk.

[dragon813gt]

Do any of these folks make a hexagonal shape hp mold? I've looked at expansion photos and really like the petaling effect.


Mihec is the only one that makes penta hollow points that I'm aware of. Your alloy needs to be just right to get them to open properly. And the pins are usually rough and require some touch up to smooth them out so the bullets don't hang up. I still order mine w/ the penta pins but I very rarely cast with them. Actually I stopped casting hollowpoints because they're unnecessary.

[USAFrox]

Just a point of reference: Tom at Accurate Molds does NOT make HP molds ! BUT you can easily have any of his mold converted to HP by Erik or Buckshot.

There are a LOT of .358 HP mold options out there already though ! I have seventeen myself.

Jerry

Thanks for the correction! Sorry for preaching false doctrine about Accurate Molds. ;-)

And 17 hp moulds?! Wow! I'm all excited because I finally got my first!

[Piedmont]

That is a tough question. They all work. NOE, Mihec, and custom conversions. You mentioned "a decent supply of hollow points", which leads me to believe you don't want a single cavity mold which lets out the traditional detachable knob type.

If I could only have one, I would have Mr. Ohlen of Hollow Point Mold Service do one up on an already proven iron mold. I'm convinced his are at least a little better than the others (I have used all three of those mentioned above plus a BRP that is very similar to the NOE RG2 and RG4). I must admit this will cost about twice as much as buying one straight from NOE or Mihec. But since you are just starting, why don't you get your feet good and wet before venturing into the HP arena.

That will give you lots of time to read the forum and agonize over whether your perfect HP mold will be a gas check or plain base. If you are anything like me, you will change your mind six times about what is perfect within the first year of casting! So a decision made now may actually lead to buying twice.

[Animal]

Piedmont... that is exactly why I started this thread. I want to get it right the first time. As of right now, I'm leaning away from gas checking my boolits because I've found that I'm getting very little to no leading with the Alliant 2400, Blue Dot and HP-38 loads that I've worked up (along with replacing the lube that came on my boolits). But, I can probably assume that it also has to do with a very high BHN of my store bought boolits... and I'm sure this has to do with their complete lack of expansion that makes me want a hp mold.

I don't mind a single cavity mold if that is what will yield the best results. It'll just give me a good excuse to spend more time outside doing something fun.

[Piedmont]

Piedmont... that is exactly why I started this thread. I want to get it right the first time. As of right now, I'm leaning away from gas checking my boolits because I've found that I'm getting very little to no leading with the Alliant 2400, Blue Dot and HP-38 loads that I've worked up (along with replacing the lube that came on my boolits). But, I can probably assume that it also has to do with a very high BHN of my store bought boolits... and I'm sure this has to do with their complete lack of expansion that makes me want a hp mold.

I don't mind a single cavity mold if that is what will yield the best results. It'll just give me a good excuse to spend more time outside doing something fun.

You can get very good results, at least for pistol bullets, with the multiple cavity HPs and it sure is faster.

The gas check on the HP molds gives you additional flexibility. Also, you might want a good load for something like a .38 snubby which maxes out on velocity at just over 800 fps. if around 160 grains. What a GC will allow you to do is perhaps use a softer alloy and still shoot well. For example something like 1 part tin to 40 parts lead. It gives you some flexibility at the cost of buying checks. You can still get low velocity HPs to expand without the check but you are walking a finer line.

A GC will let you drive a softer bullet faster in the .357 also, which might help if you take 75-100yd. shots at varmints. Out where the varmint is the velocity has dropped substantially and the softer bullet might expand where a harder one has become a non-expander. Another factor is you might not be able to get the ideal alloy you want in your lead scrounging endeavors. The GC can help make up for a less than ideal alloy, because it lets you push a softer slug faster if you need to.

There are arguments both ways and I can't make up my own mind so have both!

[HeavyMetal]

I still have one or two single cavity HP molds from Lyman, the greatest day in my life was getting a 4 cavity Mihec mold with the Cramer system for a 45 auto.

Don't get me wrong the Lyman's work very well but they are a lot more work to set up and use correctly, meaning less recycled castings, the the multi cavity Cramer style molds.

Another thing you have failed to mention is the weapon you'll put these in, all designs are not created equal and neither are the guns they go in!

Case in point is Lymans 358429 SWC, One of my last single cavity HP's by the way, and this boolit will not fit in several different revolvers, such as the Model 28 and 27 Smiths, and a Dan Wesson 15 my BIL had, they were just to long.

So chose wisely before plunking down cash to make sure you buy a mold you can use.

Eric at Hollowpoint mold. com usually has a few molds for sale that he has converted to HP and he does both the Cramer style and some new pin conversion of his own design what he has at any given time is unknown he does do a little hourse trading on molds.

Since your new to all this I am going to suggest you visit his web site and look at his extensive gallery of converted molds this is an education in itself and he has very nice full color photo's.

I will also suggest you rethink boolit weight in the 357. 357 is a nice caliber but I have always had a theory about bore size, case size and boolit weight and frankly boolits heavier than 150 just don't get it in revolvers of this caliber. There are exceptions to every rule of course which is why I have an RCBS copy of the 200 grain fp in a 4 cavity design specifically for my Contender 357 barrel.

My first thought here is if Eric has an RCBS 150 SWC mold converted to HP Cramer style buy it and never look back!

[Ozarklongshot]

Send a PM to Miha Prevec and see if he has one in stock. He usually makes a few extra on every group buy. The penta does work well of you get the mix just right. The round HPs work just fine though so I usually just stay with them. Drop him a line, you never know till you ask. You may be able to have it in just a week or two.

[Forrest r]

Another vote for mihec hp molds, they flat out work & cast beautiful bullets. I went with a Mihec 359-640 hp 4-cavity mold for my 38's/357's. I own 6 different pistols in either 38spl or 357 with bbl lengths ranging from 2" to 10". Throw in the mix short cylinders (2 dan wessons) & a long chamber leade on a tc contender barrel.

The mihec 359-640 has 2 different crimp grooves (long/short), a generous grease groove, field nose & round + penta point hp's.

81408

I like to cast/use nothing more than range lead for these boolits. I air drop them for the 38spl (20 to 1 or 9 to 10bhn) & I'm getting 800+fps out of a 2" bbl'd snob nose with a standard (not p+) load of 5.4gr of power pistol. The same load in a 6" bbl is getting 950fps & anything over 800fps with this boolit & soft lead will expand the hp.

I water drop these boolits for use in the 357's using the same range lead. The boolits come out around 11 to 12bhn or 10 to 1, they really start to shine & open up when they go over 1200fps. Anymore I like to use pb gas checks, they help the softer alloys at warp speed.

A closeup of some water dropped 359-640's that have been tumble lubed, then lubed in a lyman 450 with ben's red & a pb gas check added. These are for hot loads of 2400 & mp-300.

81409

There's a lot of good molds/mold makers out there, it really comes down to what mold/boolit style will fit your needs.

I do like the mihec molds, own 7 of them so far & have 2 more that I'm waiting on. All of them cast a hp or a hb.

[38 Specialist]

How robust are NOE pins? I have looked at the Cramer Style as well as the Inset Bar Conversions. The straps with pines on the NOE looks less sturdy. Are the any problems when in use. I am looking at a couple of NOE 4 cavity molds. Sounds like they are decent quality.

[MtGun44]

Soft can work just fine in .357 at full velocity.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50446&d=1244513448

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50443&d=1244513091

GCs seem completely superfluous with a boolit in pistols.

Bill

Bill

[Piedmont]

Soft can work just fine in .357 at full velocity.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50446&d=1244513448

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=50443&d=1244513091

GCs seem completely superfluous with a boolit in pistols.

Bill

Bill

OK now try it at 5-6 bhn.

[aya]

Check the closed buy section, and the post from Mihec. He has 20 Molds in stock 360640.
Would be yours during a week or so!

[Animal]

You are all giving me great information and knowledge. It is incredible to see all the data that you have all gathered and refined to suit you're individual firearms. It looks like my journey has just begun.

I'll be checking from Mihec. Thanks guys

[MtGun44]

No, thanks. I have lots of 8 BHN range scrap available, and it works fine. To use pure Pb would
be a PITA as far as casting and temps, and for what? Only a stunt to say it can be (or can't
be) done? I don't really care. I did it as a practical test of what I could do with a soft
alloy that I had. As a pure science experiment, it would be interesting, but I have very
little pure and no particular interest in using it for mag pistol loads. But I do mention it
when somebody is out there saying that "hard cast is necessary for good accy in magnums"
and other stuff that I have found to not be true.

Bill

[Forrest r]

So mtgun44:

What kinds of speed are you getting out of that load/bbl combo?
What is your bullet weight & hp (round/penta)?
How much expansion are you getting with that hp?
How much weight retention are you getting with that bullet at those speeds?

[Ben]

If you're set on a HP mold, I also would steer you in the direction of Erik .
Find the mold that you want, buy it and send it to Erik for a " Cramer Conversion ". Like he told me on the phone, these will " spoil you ". So easy to make HP's with his mold. There is little difference in speed of me making solid bullets with another mold or HP bullets with this mold.

A very smooth running piece of machinery !

You can reach Erik at :

http://www.hollowpointmold.com/

Here are some photos of Erik's excellent work on one of my favorite 45 Long Colt molds ! ! !

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/001-50.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/0052.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/0042.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/002-51.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/003-47.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/004-45.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/006-34.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v494/haysb/007-30.jpg

[KCSO]

Used Lyman 358150 Hp mould single cavity with handles $35.00 plus shipping. PM me.

[Bigslug]

Personally, I wouldn't mess with converting a mold to HP. Not when you can get an NOE or a MP that's designed to make up to four of them at a time. I'm good for about the same amount of time at the furnace regardless of how many cavities the mold holds. Plunking them out one at a time is fine for BPCR buffalo rifles, but for handguns, I regard that as purest madness.

I have two four cavity aluminum NOE's - both of the Keith clones in .44 and .38 (429421 and 358429) with the optional hollow point pins, and one brass MP (a 4-cavity .455 Webley hollow base mold). Both are high examples of the machinist's art, make lovely boolits, and give you the option of dispensing with the cavity option if you decide it's too much of a PITA.

A word of caution (and GLL is probably the resident expert here) - I have not yet loaded the product of the NOE 358429. There are a bunch of variants of Elmer Keith's slug, which was originally created for HOT .38 Special N-frame loads. The nose on the original is often too long for many cylinders when seated to the crimp groove in a .357 case. The solution is to seat about an eighth of an inch deeper and crimp over the front driving band. Some of the clones address this by altering the nose to varying degrees - haven't found that out yet as I've been rather distracted by the .44 projects. Another weight or nose profile may suit you better.

As to the perceived need for hollowpoints. . .I like having the option, but they are a little more challenging to cast, and a good wide flat nose or SWC profile is still going to crush a lot of tissue (and penetrate better) without having to be as finicky on the alloy or casting temperatures. At any rate, I certainly wouldn't START casting with slugs that have cavities. My father and I got into casting with his replica Whitworth (Confederate sniper rifle), which is about as exotic and weird as they get (.45 caliber, hexagonal bore and bullet, hollow base, about 575 grains). One other of our earlier molds was the single cavity RCBS .455 Webley (also hollow base and pretty exotic in design). Anything that takes you away from relatively short, squat, lumps of uniform density brings additional challenges to the party. I regard such things as fun. . . NOW, but when you're just trying to turn out your first few dozen slugs, all it does is improve your vocabulary.

I would start with either an NOE or an MP, and solicit the opinions of those who have used both heavily. I don't yet have enough experience casting with mine to say one is superior to the other - only that both are very high grade goods that are well worth the price.

[geargnasher]

Accurate + Erik Ohlen is my advice. Email them both and talk it over.

Gear

[rintinglen]

My vote is for a Mihec 4 cavity. I have 4 of his HP molds and I have found that I can produce about 10 good HP boolits a minute with them, versus the 12 or so I get from a comparable four cavity mold that lacks the HP. They need to be pre-warmed and cast hot, but once they get to temperature, you are off to the races. Do not waste your money on a single cavity pistol mold--life's too short. Miha Previc does great work and the cost of one of his works of art is high, but you can't buy better. You can spend more, though.

I can also recommend the RG-2 and RG-4 NOE Molds. They are a little more prone to trouble than the Mihec Cramer style, but still are very good.

If you already have a mold that you'd like hollow-pointed, as has been mentioned Erik Ohlen does wonderful work, but it ain't cheap. If you buy an RCBS mold and have him hollowpoint it you'll be out substantially more than the cost of a 4 cavity RG or MP, but if you already have one that is laying about, you could send it off and in a few weeks you'd have it back in your hands. It would not disappoint.