Questions about old 45Auto and 9mm ball ammo.

[Walt]

I just picked up some old ammo. What appears to be French 45 ball (dated 1-57 and 2-57 and has small primers) and what may be English 9mm ball dated 41. Included was some Interarms 9mm ball also, it's headstamped 11 52. This stuff is in excellent condition, boxes included. Although probably corrosive, I planned to shoot it. A collector may have interest? This may be a good time for me to get help with posting pictures here if there is any interest. Any thoughts......?

[Outpost75]

The French primers are not as stable as US stuff and you may get hangfires or misfires.

If cheap enough I'd buy it and pull down the misfires to salvage the bullets and sell the Berdan cases for scrap.

Today I fired some old Peters Ctg. Co. .45 ACP WW1 Ball ammo headstamped PCCo. 18 nd every round went BANG! and gave normal velocity and accuracy for hardball, 836 fps, 27Sd, 88ES over a 10-shot string with 4" group at 25 yards. Peters Ctg. Co. made in 1927 gave 859fps, 18Sd and 3.1" ten-shot group at 25 yards.
FA33 hardball did not fare as well, 3 misfires, 2 hangfires, 4 split cases. Ten rounds which fired gave average velocity of 830fps, 28Sd and 104 ES with 6" ten-shot group at 25 yards.

[Walt]

Thanks Outpost. That's not a real bad idea, I may just pull the bullets on all of it. Then I wouldn't have to do any special pistol cleaning either. I thought maybe someone would want a box or two for their collection. I'll give it a couple of days.

[FergusonTO35]

I think you ought to keep it as a WWII souvenir.

[3006guns]

The 9mm may be boxer primed and loaded to shoot in a Sten gun, so watch it! I have about 600 rounds of Canadian WWII 9mm that's in beautiful shape but I don't dare shoot it in a handgun, it's that hot.

[Outpost75]

The WW2 Sten Gun ammo is loaded close to our modern M882 Ball and is fine in a Glock, SIG or Beretta as long as you clean properly for corrosive primers. Back in the day I ran lots of it in a Swedish K and a Walther MP1 (dating myself) it was good ammo, and the brass reloads OK, Dillon's auto-swager is your friend!

[Walt]

The 9mm may be boxer primed and loaded to shoot in a Sten gun, so watch it! I have about 600 rounds of Canadian WWII 9mm that's in beautiful shape but I don't dare shoot it in a handgun, it's that hot.

This stuff is in plain brown square cardboard boxes of 64 rounds. The only marking on the box

Small Arms Ammunition
WARNING
keep out of
the reach of children

The headstamp is simple, 9 MM 41 is spaced evenly around the crimped primer. Does this sound like the Sten ammo you have?

[Outpost75]

This stuff is in plain brown square cardboard boxes of 64 rounds. The only marking on the box

Small Arms Ammunition
WARNING
keep out of
the reach of children

The headstamp is simple, 9 MM 41 is spaced evenly around the crimped primer. Does this sound like the Sten ammo you have?

The stamped warning was put on by the importer. The original packing was a plain unmarked 64 round box. The 9 MM 41 headstamp is typical of "Sterile Pack" of the period.

If cases are Berdan primed, production is British unless headstamped VPT, which is Finnish. Alot of Finnish surplus ammo was imported prior to 1968 and was very similar, but Berdan primed typical headstamp VPT 9mm 40



Canadian and US production by WRA Co., FA, DA, DCC, DAQ was boxer with crimped primers and blue annulus.

The sterile headstamp ammo was widely used, and not just by OSS and SOE, but by regular forces as well. You occasionally find ammo similarly packed with the arsenal code and year, I used to have a bunch of WRA Co. 9mm 43.

[Walt]

The stamped warning was put on by the importer. The original packing was a plain unmarked 64 round box. The 9 MM 41 headstamp is typical of "Sterile Pack" of the period.

If cases are Berdan primed, production is British unless headstamped VPT, which is Finnish. Alot of Finnish surplus ammo was imported prior to 1968 and was very similar, but Berdan primed typical headstamp VPT 9mm 40



Canadian and US production by WRA Co., FA, DA, DCC, DAQ was boxer with crimped primers and blue annulus.

The sterile headstamp ammo was widely used, and not just by OSS and SOE, but by regular forces as well. You occasionally find ammo similarly packed with the arsenal code and year, I used to have a bunch of WRA Co. 9mm 43.

I just pulled a bullet. It's a 115 with a beautifully finished hollow base. The case is Boxer primed and the primer sealant appears to be black. The bullet was internally sealed and the fine flake propellant looks similar to Bullseye.

[BruceB]

I served in the Canadian Army back in the early '60s.

We used the Sterling sub-machine gun )Long Branch production - Canadian-made) along with the Inglis-made Browning Hi-power pistol. The Sterling operates almost identically to the STEN SMG.

On range days with these weapons. we ALWAYS loaded and fired them BOTH with ammunition from the same boxes, and in the early '60s a lot of that ammo had World War II dates. This was the regular service ammunition which we could expect to be issued even for active-service roles.

There was NO SPECIAL OR DIFFERENT LOADING for the sub-machine guns in Canadian service. The stuff was energetic, but functioned perfectly in the Sterling and Browning (and a few "extra-curricular" guns that just happened to arrive on the ranges from time to time).

I'd shoot it in any steel-frame handgun I owned.

[9.3X62AL]

While I have no specific experiences with the ammo under discussion, I do believe American shooters have been over-exposed to the neutered and down-loaded American 9mm ammunition that has plagued us since the caliber became popular here after WWII. The M-882 ammunition spoken of above is loaded to European intensity, roughly 1250 FPS being imparted to a 125 grain-class bullet. The USA persists in treating the 9mm like the 38 Special's understudy.......Europeans properly regard 9mm as being closer to our 357 Magnum in power than to the 38 Special, which is how it started life c. 1902.

[Walt]

I served in the Canadian Army back in the early '60s.

We used the Sterling sub-machine gun )Long Branch production - Canadian-made) along with the Inglis-made Browning Hi-power pistol. The Sterling operates almost identically to the STEN SMG.

On range days with these weapons. we ALWAYS loaded and fired them BOTH with ammunition from the same boxes, and in the early '60s a lot of that ammo had World War II dates. This was the regular service ammunition which we could expect to be issued even for active-service roles.

There was NO SPECIAL OR DIFFERENT LOADING for the sub-machine guns in Canadian service. The stuff was energetic, but functioned perfectly in the Sterling and Browning (and a few "extra-curricular" guns that just happened to arrive on the ranges from time to time).

I'd shoot it in any steel-frame handgun I owned.

Hey Bruce, What was the routine for cleaning the Hi-Powers after firing the corrosive ammo? Walt

[KCSO]

Corrosive for sure, clean the gun as soon as you are done shooting. Water first then Hoppes then oil and check and re oil in a couple days.

[1Shirt]

Good advice from KCSO. If it were me however, I would trade it off to a collector at a gun show!
1Shirt!

[BruceB]

Hey Bruce, What was the routine for cleaning the Hi-Powers after firing the corrosive ammo? Walt

At this late date, I only recall that we used our regular issued cleaning stuff. No mention was made of any corrosive effects of the ammunition.

Canada was using non-corrosive primers well before the US started, I believe. US bore cleaner was quite effective in dealing with the corrosive elements left behind from the chlorate primers in use up into the '50s,
and IF the Canadian ammo had corrosive primers, I'm sure the issue bore cleaner took care of the situation.

Sorry I don't have any better data on the subject...

[Walt]

At this late date, I only recall that we used our regular issued cleaning stuff. No mention was made of any corrosive effects of the ammunition.

Canada was using non-corrosive primers well before the US started, I believe. US bore cleaner was quite effective in dealing with the corrosive elements left behind from the chlorate primers in use up into the '50s,
and IF the Canadian ammo had corrosive primers, I'm sure the issue bore cleaner took care of the situation.

Sorry I don't have any better data on the subject...

Thanks Bruce, I've never fired corrosive ammo in a semi auto pistol. I was wondering if the military folks would have them simply field striped or completely detail stripped each range trip. I have quite a few 9MMs, none of which I consider the detail stripping of any fun or particularly good for the pistol. I have no reservations about shooting the corrosive 45 Auto in a 1911. Walt

[Tom Herman]

Walt,

I would be careful about the older, non-American made ammunition. I bought a case of 1955 dated FN .45 ACP in the late 80's and experienced a lot of hangfires.
Running it through a full auto Thompson M1A1 didn't sound right, so I stopped and saw a 2" tear in the barrel with about five slugs backed up in it.
I also had a scary situation with WWII German 9mm in a P-38 where the sintered iron projectile rusted itself to the steel casing: It blew the slide cover off, and took the firing pin with it.
Fortunately, I came through it OK and even found all of the parts and reinstalled them.
So, if it were me, I'd *carefully* try the ammo, or just pull the projectiles and re-use them.
BTW: I picked up a small pile of mixed .45 ACP at an estate sale today: They range from steel cased 1944/45 production, and 1964 dated ammo. I'm going to keep the WWII vintage stuff as collector's items, but wouldn't hesitate to shoot the American made 1964 dated stuff.

Tom

[Walt]

[QUOTE=Tom Herman;2388276]Walt,

I would be careful about the older, non-American made ammunition. I bought a case of 1955 dated FN .45 ACP in the late 80's and experienced a lot of hangfires.
Running it through a full auto Thompson M1A1 didn't sound right, so I stopped and saw a 2" tear in the barrel with about five slugs backed up in it.
I also had a scary situation with WWII German 9mm in a P-38 where the sintered iron projectile rusted itself to the steel casing: It blew the slide cover off, and took the firing pin with it.
Fortunately, I came through it OK and even found all of the parts and reinstalled them.
So, if it were me, I'd *carefully* try the ammo, or just pull the projectiles and re-use them.
BTW: I picked up a small pile of mixed .45 ACP at an estate sale today: They range from steel cased 1944/45 production, and 1964 dated ammo. I'm going to keep the WWII vintage stuff as collector's items, but wouldn't hesitate to shoot the American made 1964 dated stuff.

Thanks for the info Tom. The ammo in question here is very clean as are its boxes. Zero signs of high temperatures or moisture while in storage. I checked all of it, one 45 headstamp and two 9mm, for steel bullets and cases. Happily none could be found. I've got 375 rounds of 45 and 776 rounds of 9mm......that's a lot of pullin' :). I still might do it if no collectors chime in. Walt