Hi Wall lovers, educate me---

[oneokie]

Saw some Hi Walls at the Tulsa Arms Show that were very unusual.

These particular rifles had color case-blue receivers. Best I can describe the look is that it reminded me of the tiger-stripe maple stocks on flintlocks. Bands of deep blue separated by bands of orange to yellow color. Very brilliant colors.

Three of the rifles were in a rack and the receiver coloration was nearly identical on all three. How did they do that??

[Buckshot]

.............I don't know how 'they' did it, but H&R/NEF use a process of plunging and withdrawing deeper into the quench medium each time and they end up with a kind of striped color case.

.............Buckshot

[22cf45]

I'm don't much about it, but as I understand it, traditional case color hardening, like on original high walls and Ballards, was done with bone/charcoal to give a mottled look. Stevens used a cyanide type process which produced stripes. You can have either method done today and I would say someone opted to have the high walls done in the Stevens type pattern which does not match what was done originally.
Phil

[Boz330]

CPA receivers look like that as well. Supposedly thats the way they came out in the old days. As buckshot said I think it is how they quench them. It is deffinately distinctive and beautiful.

Bob

[fourarmed]

I am no expert on this, but I believe the mottling is produced by bubbling air into the quench water. There are probably many ways to do this that produce different patterns.

[22cf45]

Oneokie
I was raised 5 miles north of the Red River, just south of Hollister. Anywhere close to where you are from?
Phil

[scb]

From your description it sound like they have been re-case colored using the cyanide method. I personally don't care for that type of case coloring. Makes 'em look like an H & R Topper. Should have been pack hardened. Check out http://www.turnbullrestoration.com/service.price.htm
Steve

[Buckshot]

I am no expert on this, but I believe the mottling is produced by bubbling air into the quench water. There are probably many ways to do this that produce different patterns.

...........One method I heard of and tried was to use a brine solution made up in distilled water. It called for potassium nitrate but I didn't have any so just used table salt :-). Then in the quench tank you have a good flow of air bubbles so the surface is roiling with a layer of light oil on top.

http://www.fototime.com/15AC5C0ED7160EC/standard.jpg

I tried it out on this base forming plunger for 58 cal Minie' boolits. It did come out with some nifty colors, and the fact that it did at all was pretty exciting to me. I sure wouldn't want to do anything complicated!

..............Buckshot

[45r]

Look up BallardRifles.com if you want to see the best 1885's.They shoot one hole groups with the load they like from what I've read about them.

[DonH]

There is world of differnce between color-case and color case hardening as I am sure y'all know. One is heat treating and the other ain't. Ballard 1885 repros, as did originals, are done via the bone/charcoal pack method. I have a repro rifle which reportedly has case colors done by Turnbull. The colors are very rich and the pattern of the coloring very distinct. It has been said that this is color only but I con't know one way or the other.
For what it is worth, while I think highly of the CPAs, I much prefer the Winchester case colors to the Stevens type as used by CPA.

[22cf45]

I think that Winchesters, Ballards and Rem rolling blocks, etc. look good when the case color hardening was done in the original, mottled pattern (or lack of pattern). However, IMHO, the Stevens' and the look alike CPA look best in the original, striped Stevens pattern. It appears to me that the color on the CPA's is not exactly the same as the original Stevens.
Phil

[Bent Ramrod]

I get the sense from my reading that the case hardening gotten from cyanide can be as good as that obtained from pack hardening with various animal charcoals, as long as the item to be hardened is left immersed in the hardening agent long enough before quenching to get the necessary few thousandths depth of hardening. Of course, that time was money to the factories, so a company like Stevens, who built their guns to a price, would tend to skimp on this time factor, resulting in parts that had thin, spotty or sometimes no hardening under the colors. Heavy use would result in oval pin holes, hammers that would not stay cocked, rubbed surfaces and other aspects of rapid wear.

Another cost increaser was the spoilage rate of some of the parts (especially receivers) through warpage after the pack-hardening and quenching. After Winchester started offering a blued finish, they quickly standardized this as the base finish, charging extra for color hardening and gradually phasing the option out altogether.

I kind of like that marcelled look, although to me, as to 22cf45, it says "Stevens." Kind of like the portholes on the hood says Buick or the full-length underlug says Colt.

[DonH]

To my knowledge the Winchester receivers were still case hardened even when blued. I have understood this from reading but also from draw filing my own receiver. This particular part came from a rifle which had been through a house fire and was heavily frodsted on one side. On the other side,which still had the finish intact, the blue required considerable effort to file through. The Winchester case hardening was only a few thousandths deep though according to John Campbell; maybe .010" or so.
I believe the major factor in the move to the cyanide method was simply cost. The Stevens line was always a lower cost alternative when compared to other makes.