Mauser 98 bolt sticks

[lylejb]

Helping neighbor with his rifle.

The action is a Mauser 98, that was rebarreled and stocked into a sporter somtime after WW2. It was his father's, and is chambered in .308 Norma mag ( almost 300 win mag if your not familiar)

The bolt rotates with normal force, but the last 1/4 to 3/8 inch opening or closing sticks. This happens with or without a round in the chamber. Does seem slightly harder after firing, but this is not an overpressure condition. More like friction or contact.


Known history: this rifle was fired with an overload years back, and had to have the bolt replaced. The replacement was done by a professional gunsmith. Because of this, the bolt is known to be non matching number.

The owner of this rifle doesn't remember if the sticking was present before the bolt replacement or not.

I have cleaned and oiled the outside of the bolt, and inside the reciever ring (where the bolt lugs turn) and made little to no improvement.

There's no visible bright marks or rubbed areas indicating contact as far as I can tell.

Is it possible for the reciever to be warped, or out of line? The replacement bolt not straight?

Thanks in Advance.

[waksupi]

I would need it in-hand to diagnose.

[elk hunter]

One way I've located sticky spots on bolts is to strip the bolt completely and remove the bolt stop, clean the outside of the bolt of all oil and coat it with "Dykem", or possibly "Magic Marker", then carefully insert the bolt and withdraw it and look for rub marks. Sometimes a scope mount screw is too long and will rub, I've even had the rear tang screw that was too long or screwed in too far interfere with bolt. Keep looking, you'll find the problem.

[John Taylor]

You could cote the bolt with layout die and see where the tight spot is. Some Mausers develop a set back of the bolt in the frame which would make it hard to open after firing but this does not sound like the problem. I have seen bolts bind in the frame when they come out of a different gun, just need to find out where it is dragging and polish that part of the bolt or frame.

[Reg]

Marking the bolt and checking for drag marks is a good idea and very well might show where the problem is but also another thing to check is the action frame itself for twisting or having been bent or twisted in the past.
You said it had been rebarreled. Most Mauser frames are actually quite soft. Generally their strength comes not only from a good design but from being case hardened. Generally the barrels are not as tightly fitted in as say a 1917 Enfield and it is not uncommon that if for whatever reason a barrel was tightly fitted and if the receiver is not fully supported then is someone got heavy handed on the wrench it can cause twisting of the frame or receiver. Have seen bolt binding from this and also no small amount of inaccuracy.

[nhrifle]

Check the outside of the bolt body completely for burrs and also the interior of the receiver. Disassemble the bolt completely and look at everything. There is an eliptical, sliding cam surface that cocks the striker when raising the bolt handle, make sure that is nice and smooth. Had quite a few guns become a bear to use because of this.

[swheeler]

Helping neighbor with his rifle.

The action is a Mauser 98, that was rebarreled and stocked into a sporter somtime after WW2. It was his father's, and is chambered in .308 Norma mag ( almost 300 win mag if your not familiar)

The bolt rotates with normal force, but the last 1/4 to 3/8 inch opening or closing sticks. This happens with or without a round in the chamber. Does seem slightly harder after firing, but this is not an overpressure condition. More like friction or contact.


Known history: this rifle was fired with an overload years back, and had to have the bolt replaced. The replacement was done by a professional gunsmith. Because of this, the bolt is known to be non matching number.

The owner of this rifle doesn't remember if the sticking was present before the bolt replacement or not.

I have cleaned and oiled the outside of the bolt, and inside the reciever ring (where the bolt lugs turn) and made little to no improvement.

There's no visible bright marks or rubbed areas indicating contact as far as I can tell.

Is it possible for the reciever to be warped, or out of line? The replacement bolt not straight?

Thanks in Advance.

Color the tip of the extractor with a marker and see it it is rubbing barrel shank when closed and opened, better yet remove the extractor and see if it still does it.

[pietro]

.

NEVER oil the bolt lugs or the bolt lug recess' inside the (front) receiver ring.

Your binding issue appears to be with the receiver bridge (rear receiver "ring") area, so I would check the the inside tip of the (swing-out) ejector blade isn't bent, and also that the the tip of the rear (trigger) guard screw isn't protruding up from it's hole in the rear tang (inside the channel that the cocking notch of the firing pin travels through during bolt ops).

Sometimes an older wood stock can dry out & shrink a bit, so many folks just cinch up that rear screw, making the tip protrude & interfere with the bolt, ILO laying flush or below the surface of the channel.



.

[lylejb]

OK,

Tried removing the cocking piece and firing pin from the bolt, no change. Tried removing the extractor from the bolt, no change. Tried holding open the bolt release/ ejector, no change. The ejector looks straight. Tried removing the magazine follower, no change. I did this one piece at a time, it didn't help.

Looks like it's time to find someplace with dykem....

Also, I've been told the reciever is case hardened. Is the bolt also case hardened? The reason I ask is if it comes down to having remove some metal for clearance, is it better to work on the bolt than risk the case hardening on the reciever?

[fouronesix]

First, no, the bolt shouldn't be case hardened and usually the lugs or head are where the cleaning cuts/honing cuts are made for fit into raceways- unless the end of the raceway has been set back to due an over-pressure load(s) (that's a different story on what could be done to correct the problem).

After reading through this thread, sure sounds like something is amiss- possibly related to some unfortunate over-pressure loads of the past or even a mis-fit as a result of a put together gun. Could even be a warped receiver for whatever reason.

No matter the real cause, my gut feeling is to take it to a gunsmith who knows what he is doing with these type actions.

[Reg]

On 98's, especially those of war time manufacture, the bolts are also case hardened.
For ease of manufacture and price, most military 98's are made from a low carbon steel ( C1017- C1020 )and case hardening is about the only way to make them hard and resist wear.
Not too sure about the commercial models. Quite possibly some of the Santa Barbra's and some of the FN's and especially the magnum magazine models might have gone up a grade in steel and this would require different HT.

[fouronesix]

Yes, for those through WW2 they were for certain "carburized" to add hardness to the outside layers of the bolt- which was often of lesser steel. But in terms of what some call or think of about case hardening today- like a relatively thin skin of super hard wear resistant steel- no.

[Goatwhiskers]

Really hope I'm wrong, but I have a fair amount of experience with Mausers and it sounds as tho you have a warped or twisted receiver. The gun has been rebarreled, some "smiths" out there don't have proper action wrenches and stick something thru the rails and twist to loosen or tighten. There is even a commercial tool available to do this. Problem is the rails cannot stand the twist and will warp. The only way to unscrew receivers is with a properly fitted action wrench clamped to the receiver ring. Hope you find the trouble. GW

[KCSO]

Sounds like the lugs are set back. This happens fairly often with the older Mauser sporters as an overload will drive the bolt lugs back into the action. Then when you open the action the lugs have to make it over a hump to open. Strip the bolt and put it in with no springs to deal with and open and close it while pulling back slightly. You will easily tell if the lugs are set back. The cure is to lap the lugs back in and set the barrel back accordingly.

[concho]

And now we all know why a Gunsmith can't make a living ! after the gun is ruined from all the bad advice and a No Not trying to fix it, it is taken to a professional and when he says $150.00 to fix it ! You all scream price is too high.

[pietro]

OK,

Tried removing the cocking piece and firing pin from the bolt, no change. Tried removing the extractor from the bolt, no change. Tried holding open the bolt release/ ejector, no change. The ejector looks straight. Tried removing the magazine follower, no change. I did this one piece at a time, it didn't help.



Since the only affected parts left are the bolt/lugs & the receiver bolt recess', that's exactly where the cause of the issue lays - either of which is best corrected by a gunsmith (not some AR parts-changer), since headspace and/or a bad receiver are involved.



.

[Shift1]

I would have the barrel removed from the action...take it to a smith for this. When the barrel is removed you will be able to view the front of the bolt lug recesses. It will be obvious if you have lug set back. You mentioned an over pressure round, setback is a common issue with hot loads.

[MBTcustom]

I'm just going to throw a couple ideas out here, not to discount what has already been mentioned about a twisted receiver etc etc (although, I would think you would be able to see that pretty easily)
First, if the rifle has been drilled and tapped for scope bases, make sure that the rear screws are not protruding into the bolt channel. That rear bridge is extremely thin, and often, the screws are too long and must be cut down. If the guy doing the install didn't take enough off the tips of the screws, then the tip of your bolt can catch one of them.
Another thing that I have found is that if the bolt is a little too loose in the receiver, it is possible for it to be herky jerky as it is operated. I'm still trying to come up with a fix for this, and so far I'm not having too much luck. I have a Browning BBR here that does that very thing. No matter how you work it, it binds as it is opened and closed. There is no obstruction of any kind, and if you push on the cocking piece shroud, it slides home easily, but as long as you are using the bolt to close it, it binds. Can't figure it. Seems like a bolt needs to be really close fitting, or loose as a goose, and nothing in between.
Sure hope you figure out what's going on.

[lylejb]

Ok,

Stripped the bolt down, and coated with dykem. Insert and remove, without turning. Found four contact spots, 3 on the bottom of the bolt, 1 on the top. The spots were about centered on the bottom of the front locking lugs, and the center (round ) of the bolt body. These were oval spots, with no drag marks. The spot on the top of the bolt was also centered at the top of the bolt, between the lugs.

Sort of formed a triangle, pinching the bolt from the top and bottom, in the front reciever ring.


Lightly polished these spots, and the sticking is much improved.

I likely didn't go far enough. It didn't take much to make a big difference, maybe .001 or .002

Anyway, Now that I know what's going on, I can go back in and take a bit more off if needed.

Thanks for the help.

[Jeff H]

And now we all know why a Gunsmith can't make a living ! after the gun is ruined from all the bad advice and a No Not trying to fix it, it is taken to a professional and when he says $150.00 to fix it ! You all scream price is too high.

Well, it sure doesn't hurt to have half a clue about what's wrong before taking it to a 'smith. Good ones are few and far between.

I want to toss in an idea to check that I encountered myself recently. A friend got his '98 back from the "smith" who installed a new barrel, new bolt handle and blue it all. The work was terrible and he didn't get all of his own parts back (swapped for parts in worse condition - like his bottom metal), but the most disconcerting part was that his originally smooth bolt was now very sticky and balky.

All that was wrong was that this "smith" did not replace the tube between the trigger guard and rear tang and cranked the screw down on a Tupperware stock. The screw was protruding and the action was slightly sprung because of this. I backed the screw out some and it was fine. Made a new tube and put it back together and all is well. No twisted receiver was the good news.

[Frank46]

Goodsteel may have a good answer. Check the last screw hole on the front receiver ring to make sure no one drilled into the top lug on the receiver. Sometimes shoddy workmanship does this and the screw hole will either have a partially drilled hole either in the lug itself or in the front of it. That will make opening and closing the bolt harder. Frank

[TCLouis]

If it is not the scope mount screws (front too), then is it possible that there is some setback in the receiver ring?

[concho]

A Smith sounds like a Black smith did the work , I have seen work by so called gunsmiths ! I have also done work for people who brought guns to me that were told they were wall hangers , do some research before giving you gun to some butcher who is only a parts exchanger , ask where they were trained ? look at the wall for papers showing their ability to be a gun repair person , my wall has 2 for anyone to see and from accredited hands on schools of training ! 1 Master gunsmith school ,1 PA Machinist , over 20 years ! It just strikes me funny that a person will baulk at the price from Bronells hourly rates or flat rate for a job , and say Hell I only paid $25.00 for the gun , $35.00 is too much to fix it ! But they will take their car to a garage and pay 3 times what it is wroth for inspection in PA .

[JMtoolman]

It is possible that the front receiver ring is crushed by the clamping, when the barrel was installed. Have seen this before. This may be why there are three spots binding on the bolt. The toolman.

[tommag]

I'm having the same problem with a re barelled 98. It binds when it is screwed down in the stock, but not when the screws are loosened. No protrusion of rear screw, but no tube for rear screw. It seems like the action is getting tweeked by a bad inletting job. It is sticky on the front as well as the rear of bolt travel. Tighten it down hard enough and its extremely hard to move.
Would a tube be required on the rear screw on a wooden stock?

[Jeff H]

I'm having the same problem with a re barelled 98. It binds when it is screwed down in the stock, but not when the screws are loosened. No protrusion of rear screw, but no tube for rear screw. It seems like the action is getting tweeked by a bad inletting job. It is sticky on the front as well as the rear of bolt travel. Tighten it down hard enough and its extremely hard to move.
Would a tube be required on the rear screw on a wooden stock?

Yes....

[Reg]

A tube might be a start but it actually sounds like you need a whole complete rebed. A Accraglass kit here could do wonders.



I'm having the same problem with a re barelled 98. It binds when it is screwed down in the stock, but not when the screws are loosened. No protrusion of rear screw, but no tube for rear screw. It seems like the action is getting tweeked by a bad inletting job. It is sticky on the front as well as the rear of bolt travel. Tighten it down hard enough and its extremely hard to move.
Would a tube be required on the rear screw on a wooden stock?

[concho]

Would a tube be required on the rear screw on a wooden stock? When I attended Gun school the tube was thrown away and action was fitted solid on bedding or wood .

[Reg]

Some people swear by tubes or pillar bedding , some swear at it. I have found that a good glass bedding, full length of the receiver then properly fitting in the bottom metal ( hold that clearance between the top of the magazine and the bottom of the receiver ) and do not tighten too tightly the guard screws will do the trick. You want that receiver to just lay in natural with no forces pushing or pulling on it. Also I usually build up about 2 to 3 layers of blue tape on the bottom of the recoil lug. When you pull the metal out for the first time make sure that tape is removed from the bottom of the lug. This will give clearance to the bottom of the lug and save you time scraping it out to get the clearance. Also make sure you have proper clearance at the very rear of the receiver so that it dosn't act as a wedge during firing. With glass bedding .010 is sufficient, just in the wood alone you need more.
A lot of people flat do not like glass bedding but it has it's place.

[tommag]

Thanks, Jeff H, Reg, and Concho.
I bought an acriglass kit thinking I'd try it on a 788 that doesn't fit very well, but it looks like this 98 will be my first attempt.
Between the bedding and mis-drilled receiver sight hole, I think I know why I got such a bargain.

[Reg]

If it's the Brownell's kit, follow the directions and you can't go wrong.

[Jeff H]

Thanks, Jeff H, Reg, and Concho.
I bought an acriglass kit thinking I'd try it on a 788 that doesn't fit very well, but it looks like this 98 will be my first attempt.
Between the bedding and mis-drilled receiver sight hole, I think I know why I got such a bargain.

For what it's worth, I agree with Reg on the bedding, but without the tube, it's not as easy to GET it bedded properly - at least for me. Getting the tube the right length is crucial but not difficult. Bottom line is that the bottom metal is not stressing the receiver. The tube makes that easier. Rather than go into all the tiny details about it here, I still recommend Jerry Kuhnhausen's book even for a guy with one Mauser. He says it better, doesn't forget (it's all written down) little details and he'll answer you while you're sitting on the toilet, while I will not. Well, he'll answer sort of answer - just pick up his book and find where you left off.:oops:

[lmcollins]

Start from scratch:
1. Take the action out of the stock and put it in a vice of some type with some blocks, and hold it by the barrel. Now start functioning it without bottom metal, and bolt guts.
2.If this works alright hold the bottom metal to the action, and see if it works. (NO stress!)
3. As you add parts, and remove parts, it will become aparent where the problem is.

Guys: we are making simple hard. Induction, deduction, observation, postulation. I think it is called the "Scientific Method." We even use it in working with guns....

PS: I hope it isn't lug set back. If so it's a junker. This exercise should tell you quickly.

An Impatent Old Fart.