Is it necessary to size boolits?

[Swampcrawler]

This is the only thing keeping me from casting right now. I'd like to cast at least plinking loads for 45acp and 357 max (loaded down with like 5 grains of unique) just for light plinking rounds.

I don't have a single stage press and money is tight to the point of not wanting to buy a single stage and sizer die. I know for accuracy and gas checks sizing is recommended, but could I just get a lee mold and cast and shoot when accuracy and velocity don't have to be excessive?

[6bg6ga]

You still need to size and lubricate the bullets in order to obtain maximum accuracy. Most molds do oversize the bullets for the purpose of sizing and lubing them. Sizing makes them 100% round and the correct diameter and of course you need the lubricant so you don't lead the barrel.

Now, sizing and the need for sizing in order to be able to shoot/use the bullets will depend on the chamber and barrel. I've seen old guys in the past that never sized their boolits for their 45 long colt and simply put some home made lube in the groove and loaded them and achieved passable results. I have seen the same boolits sized and lubed with the same load obtaining far far better accuracy.

So, you may be able to use as cast however I wouldn't count upon this or the accuracy of said combination.

[country gent]

You can get by with out the lubri sizer or sizing dies if your mold cast to a dia usable for your barrel, you can adjust bullet dia a little with alloy mix also. You will need to pan lube or finger lube grooved bullets. A lee tumble lube desighn can be done with lee liquid alox or 45 45 10. Put bullets in a plastic tub with a small amount of lube and roll / agitate until completely coated and let dry. For light target plinking loads tis will work pretty well.

[mikeym1a]

I cast and load Lee's .45 200gr/microgroove semi-wadcutter. I tumble lube, and shoot. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but yesterday I was hitting the silhouette at 75yds with fair regularity. I used 10lb of WW to 1lb of 50/50. I do not size. I have no leading. These are loaded to about 900fps, according to the manual. I don't know about 357. I'm sure I got lucky with my alloy/mould/pistol combo the first time out. I do the same for my .32S&WL. I only had one gun I had to size for, and it had a 'target' cylinder. I later sold that gun, too much problem. My 1st Model Hand Ejector likes my loads, shoots accrurately, and doesn't lead. From what I've read, you need to slug the barrel, especially the part that goes through the frame. This sometimes causes a constriction which will swage the boolit and then leave it loose in the remainder of the bore, resulting in poor accuracy. But so far, I haven't had to do that with my pistols. Good Luck.

[Swampcrawler]

Crud. Well I guess il have to scratch up the extra 40 bucks for a little lee c frame and lee sizing die.

['74 sharps]

I cast a 158gr bullet for 38/357 that is tumble lubed and shot without sizing. I cast very soft alloy, and have no leading. Accuracy is fine as one of my pistols, a S&W 27 in 357 with 8' barrel is shot mainly at 100 yards with great results. My short range 357, a 4" Highway Patrolman, will shoot better than I can at 25 yards with the same unsized bullet.

[Shiloh]

for concentricity and consistency, yes. The barrel will round them into cylinders, but oversize boolits don't fit in revolver chambers very well.

Shiloh

[ultramag]

Crud. Well I guess il have to scratch up the extra 40 bucks for a little lee c frame and lee sizing die.

No, no, no.....you can most likely get by for a while without sizing. You can even tumble lube boolits with a traditional lube groove. The only caveat is that your mold has to drop the boolits at a reasonable sized diameter to work with the gun you wish to shoot them in. I shot the first 3500+ boolits I cast without anyway to size them. I have found out sizing them usually makes things more accurate, uniform, and neat all else being equal.

In short, while I think getting some sizing equipment eventually is a good idea, there is absolutely no reason to not give this a try without it. In fact, it's probably a good idea to cast and load a few and see if this whole adventure is a good fit for you.

[Bzcraig]

Watch the 'pay it forward' and you may find exactly what you need. Also watch swappin and sellin as dies are on there every day and often for 45 & 38/357.

[oldpapps]

Back in the late 60's while I was at play in Uncles year round camp, I cast 158 grain swc and 124 grain rn bullets from what ever lead I could find. I rubbed grease into the grease groves and loaded. My S&W Model 28, 6 inch did very well. I was using 38 Spec brass and loading on the low side. The little round nose were loaded into 9MM brass and to cycle my Browning HiPower needed to be loaded a bit heaver and did lead more than I liked. But I shot them, a lot. I did get a Lyman 450 sizer/lube in the early 70's and could up my loads and reduced the leading in the 9MM.

I would say, should size but not required if your weapon/load/cast bullets will all work together.

Load safely,

OSOK

[williamwaco]

Many people never size bullets.

They will shoot OK but in my experience, many of them will expand the cartridge case to a diameter that will not enter the chamber. And I mean many of them. As many as 10 to 20%

Thus I size all mine.

[Lead Fred]

I size the .458s, 30 cals, but the .452 I just pan lube and stuff them in a case

[Swampcrawler]

Hm. Ok well looks like il order a mold and see what happens then. If I can't get it to work then il look into getting a single stage and sizing die.

Thanks for all the help gentlemen.

[alamogunr]

Many people never size bullets.

They will shoot OK but in my experience, many of them will expand the cartridge case to a diameter that will not enter the chamber. And I mean many of them. As many as 10 to 20%

Thus I size all mine.

+1 I had very good luck tumble lubing boolets for a couple of 9mm's w/o sizing. I thought that I could get away with the same with some H&G 68 clones. NOT! I loaded up about 50 rounds and when I tried them out, most would not chamber. I didn't have a Lee Factory Crimp die so I pulled the boolets and resized without the decapping pin and reloaded with sized boolets. This time I used the barrel as a gage and also a Midway cartridge gage I had forgotten about. All chambered properly.

By the way, the 9mm's were Ruger P95's that I had bought for my sons. They don't have that tactical look that is fashionable today but they work.

Based on Lead Fred's post, apparently each gun is an individual.

[capt.hollis]

Many people never size bullets.

They will shoot OK but in my experience, many of them will expand the cartridge case to a diameter that will not enter the chamber. And I mean many of them. As many as 10 to 20%

Thus I size all mine.thats right William , I have a 300 black out that will not chamber a 309-150 lee mold bullet at all right now, and I'm going to have to size this bullet. No doubt sizing is important !

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Isn't it AMAZING that there are lots of folks on this site that do not know how or are tooooo Ignorant to use all the information in the site, without asking silly questions, that have been worked over for YEARS.... I don't mean to be an A.. , but use the information that is right here in your face.
I'm not being a jerk, but the site is set up with more information than ANY of us can use.. Have a good one and enjoy the site I am not jerking you around, just use the site and if you have more questions than answers, talk to the site managers, again this is not meant to be put down, just information. Look around ....:bigsmyl2:

[bangerjim]

So how the heck are you loading & seating & crimping your rounds now if you do not have a press?????? You MUST have a press of some kind, right? Use it for the sizing die.

A simple Lee press is about $30. And the sizing die is about $18.

But the die will screw into ANY press.

I size ALL my boolits, bot tumble and standard design. Most are pretty well right on. I gun powder coat all my slugs and size again after coating. I do NOT use any kind of lube any more.

bangerjim

[Echd]

He might have a progressive that can't accept the Lee push-rod, maybe?

Jim, you size, pcoat, then size again? I've been kicking around sizing then coating and coating then sizing and can't make up my mind which works better, but I'll give your way a shot.

[ku4hx]

Isn't it AMAZING that there are lots of folks on this site that do not know how or are tooooo Ignorant to use all the information in the site, without asking silly questions, that have been worked over for YEARS.... I don't mean to be an A.. , but use the information that is right here in your face.
I'm not being a jerk, but the site is set up with more information than ANY of us can use.. Have a good one and enjoy the site I am not jerking you around, just use the site and if you have more questions than answers, talk to the site managers, again this is not meant to be put down, just information. Look around ....:bigsmyl2:

Before I retired, one of the little jobs I undertook in my office was to write simple little desktop procedures. These were in response to a directive to document what we did for various reasons, but also to allow a new employee to have a short, simple written set of instructions to aid in becoming a productive employee. They also helped those who hadn't done tasks is a while and so forth.

One day, one of my long term workmates came to me and asked a very basic question concerning a certain task on which I was the resident "expert". My response was, "It's right there on the piece of paper you have in your hand." The person's response was, "But I'd rather ask you". I swear this is a true story.

As a one time school teacher (Chemistry, Physics and Biology) I taught how to learn, how to research and how to problem solve. I'm beginning to believe those are lost arts.

[marvelshooter]

I don't size my cast rifle boolts. I do size my pistol and revolver boolits because I use a lubrisizer but I have been playing with pan lubing and will try it on some revolver boolits soon. Don't let not sizing your boolits hold you back. Mix some Ben's Red or get some Lee liquid alox and see if you can get away with not sizing.

[6bg6ga]

Isn't it AMAZING that there are lots of folks on this site that do not know how or are tooooo Ignorant to use all the information in the site, without asking silly questions, that have been worked over for YEARS.... I don't mean to be an A.. , but use the information that is right here in your face.
I'm not being a jerk, but the site is set up with more information than ANY of us can use.. Have a good one and enjoy the site I am not jerking you around, just use the site and if you have more questions than answers, talk to the site managers, again this is not meant to be put down, just information. Look around ....:bigsmyl2:

Actually you do come off as sort of a jerk with the response above. This site like a lot of others do have this information available. The problem being a glitch in either the software or terms used to try to pull up the information. So, people do try to obtain answers by looking here and doing searches.
Unfortunately these searches do not at times pull up the information needed so thus the question/questions. This site like others I would assume was put together with the idea of helping people and probably with the idea of those answering the questions having tolerance to do so. So, there is nothing wrong with asking a question and NO question is stupid in my humble opinion. Note... other may or may not share my opinion and are thus welcome to theirs.

[N4AUD]

If you own calipers and micrometer, and if you have slugged your barrel, you'll know whether or not you'll have to size.

[Dan Cash]

Hm. Ok well looks like il order a mold and see what happens then. If I can't get it to work then il look into getting a single stage and sizing die.

Thanks for all the help gentlemen.

You have the right idea here. A Lyman lubricator/sizer sits on my bench collecting dust and will go to market when I get a round to it, my bullets are all pan lubed. Ammo ranges from .30 Mauser to .45-70 and the only thing that gets sized is the bullet used in the .30 Mauser as it comes from a mould that is shared with a .32-20. Though I have a number of autoloading pistols, most shooting is with revolvers to avoid chaseing brass. The key is the size of bullet that comes from the mould. Avoiding the tumble lube type bullets will reduce your leading and frustration. A new mould that drops out of round bullets should be returned to the factory for replacement, yet many find "Beagleing" a satisfactory solution to a mould that drops a bullet that is too small; Beagleing will produce out of round bullets.

[Dan Cash]

Isn't it AMAZING that there are lots of folks on this site that do not know how or are tooooo Ignorant to use all the information in the site, without asking silly questions, that have been worked over for YEARS.... I don't mean to be an A.. , but use the information that is right here in your face.
I'm not being a jerk, but the site is set up with more information than ANY of us can use.. Have a good one and enjoy the site I am not jerking you around, just use the site and if you have more questions than answers, talk to the site managers, again this is not meant to be put down, just information. Look around ....:bigsmyl2:

It is a put down and uncalled for. If you don't want to participate or assist this fellow, don't feel compelled to reply to yis posting.
Dan

[oldpapps]

"there is nothing wrong with asking a question and NO question is stupid"

I fully agree.

For those who must be irritated and say so, well their hemorrhoids must be inflamed, I give them a pass and hope that the person jumped on doesn't become discouraged and not ask questions.

Knowledge is power and knowledge benefits us all, spread it around.

Keep asking questions so I can make a bigger fool of myself :)

Enjoy,

OSOK

[RobsTV]

Without a press, could be reloading using Lee Classic loader? But with a semi-auto pistol, a turrent press will really change your shooting more than anything else. Pumping out a round every 5 seconds is tough to beat with a hammer. A $165 Lee Classic turrent press kit will include almost everything to get you started except dies. Lee sizing dies with lube run less than $15.

http://www.grafs.com/dealer/product/242158 (C&R priced)

But as others mentioned, good chance you do not need to size for now. My Lee 452-230-TC drops at .4525 with soft alloy. Seeing as the Lee Classic loader is designed for jacketed, it will probably size the soft lead down enough to work in most anything if seated short enough. Tumble or pan lube.

[dragon813gt]

I'm not even going to post the results of a google search "do you have to size cast bullets." It gives lots of results across a lot of forums. This is why some people get irritated. The answer to this particular question is out there many times.

But so I contribute. If the mold drops bullet that will chamber in your firearm then you don't need to size them. I don't have to size bullets for my 357s but I do have to size them down for my 9mms. Tumble lube will work just fine for lubing.

[6bg6ga]

I'm not even going to post the results of a google search "do you have to size cast bullets." It gives lots of results across a lot of forums. This is why some people get irritated. The answer to this particular question is out there many times.

But so I contribute. If the mold drops bullet that will chamber in your firearm then you don't need to size them. I don't have to size bullets for my 357s but I do have to size them down for my 9mms. Tumble lube will work just fine for lubing.


I don't think we are talking about a Google search here. I believe we are talking about using the advanced search feature here on this site for obtaining answers to particular questions. My point is this... the results do depend on the way the search is conducted/terms used and therefore do not come off as particularly reliable most of the time.

Yes, if a person was to Google as question you do have a 50% chance of actually receiving information that may or may not be usable.
Bottom line is this as far as I'm concerned...people do not have to be rude. If you don't like what is being put forth in a question just choose not to answer. There is one particular member here on this forum that likes to throw his two cents in and put forth rather rude comments and call people twits and so forth. No need for this type of behavior on this forum in my humble opinion. We are probably all old enough to be respectful of others here.

We all have our opinions of what works or doesn't work for us on a variety of subjects. Any poster here on any of the thread should be allowed to do several things 1.) Ask questions without someone treating them like a child in a demeaning manor. 2.) Answer or choose not to answer said question in a proper manor.

[dragon813gt]

We're on the Internet. Use every resource. The search here is not very useful. Now for google just put CastBoolits before the search criteria and you will get site specific results. There is no reason to not use every resource at your disposal. I recently spent close to five hours looking for an answer to a particular question before I posted a new topic. But I do agree w/ not being rude. This debate is a constant one and there will always be people on both sides.

[Moonie]

I size few of the boolits I shoot. The only ones I do size are the ones that will not chamber in the firearms I shoot or that require gas checks, those are in the minority.

[uaskme]

I do as the above. If you dont taper crimp 45acp, most likely they wont chamber if you size or not. Most molds drop around 452 for 45 or around 358 for the 38s. These two calibers are most likely ones you wont have to size for. I have a Star sizer and dont size pistol bullets. I have good molds and sizing boolits wont make they any rounder. If you get a cheap mold the chances of getting out of round boolits or boolits dropping at different size from a multi cavity mold increases.

[mdi]

I would say you need to do two things before you spend any money; one, measure the bullet diameter as cast. Micrometers are best. And two, slug the revolver cylinder throat or the barrel of your semi-auto. Then you'll find out if you need to size your bullets. For your 45 ACP, of the bullets measure .451" to mebbe .453", try them. If a .453" bullet/cartridge will chamber shoot it. Tumble lube works well for 45 ACP and is cheap and easy to do.

When I first started casting I had a Lee kit for pan lubing/sizing. It used a "die" that you just pushed a bullet through, kinda like their present push through dies except no threads. I've experimented some with bullet sizing with a Lee die just sitting on my bench and a dowel. Drop in a bullet and push it through with a dowel. Or carefully clamp the die in a vise and catch the bullets as they fall through.

Casting/lubing/sizing ain't rocket science and all yer doing is casting a cylinder out of lead, putting some goop on it, and making sure it's not too big for your gun. K.I.S.S....

[MtGun44]

Not NECESSARY to size, but it is very common to want a diameter other than what the mold
drops. Also, there can be significant variation in as-cast diameter, due to mostly technique,
primarily not closing a mold fully or letting a bit of crud get on the parting line.
Sizing gives more consistent diameters and more consistent results, but is definitely not
a requirement if the as-cast diameter is good for your application.

Bill

[Swampcrawler]

Thanks gentlemen (most of you) for all the helpful replies. For the benefit of some il refrain from posting any questions which could be answered via google. (which means forums are probably obsolete)

Il be ordering a mold in the near future and trying to find some suitable alloy. All I have I pretty soft as it was used for muzzleloading roundballs.

[Foto Joe]

As someone who is relatively new to casting I'll add my couple of pennies in here. I too was pretty paranoid about sizing and on a bit of a budget when I got started a few months ago. By the way, I've gone through just over 90 pounds of lead from COWW's at the present time of which about 70% has been dispersed via the barrels of a half dozen guns, my learning curve is still pretty steep.

I purchased a Lee sizing die at the outset and have used it a couple of times for .452-228's for 1911 and 45 Colt. I didn't notice much if any difference with the 1911's but I did with the SAA's and the difference wasn't too good. My sized boolits for 45 Colt tended to lead the snot out of the barrels, I haven't had that issue with the 1911's but since the accuracy is good I quit sizing for them as well. Incidentally I lube with 45-45-10 and find it more than adequate for these calibers as well as 38 Special. Since I stopped sizing my 45 Colt rounds go down the bore cleanly with no lead staying behind.

Since it sounds like you're used to shooting real gunpowder (the Holy Black), you're quite aware that each gun has it's own personality and that carries over to these new fangled smokeless powder guns as well. Don't sweat the sizing thing for right now. Cast, shoot, learn and have fun.

[prs]

You guys can be brutal. The answer, as the OP has evidently gleaned, is "it depends". I have several molds that drop to the exact size I want. The only reason I run them through a sizer, and it is usually a size die slightly larger than the boolits (ie 454 for a 452 boolit) is to lube them with traditional lube. If the OP is using tumble lube or pan lubing, then all he needs a boolit mold that drops to a usable size. My experience is that Lyman molds drop at or slightly under their nominal size (probably because they insist upon using Lyman2 as their reference), Lee molds drop a bit fatter, but a little antimony and tin will decrease that some. He should try it and see. If his pistol and revolver are tight of chamber, maybe a problem. Otherwise, let the barrel size them,

prs

[Texantothecore]

I have never sized a boolit. Neither did the cowboys.

Instructions for one mold from the period said "Trim flashing from bullet."

Yikes!

You can go for a long time without sizing.

[Texantothecore]

Thanks gentlemen (most of you) for all the helpful replies. For the benefit of some il refrain from posting any questions which could be answered via google. (which means forums are probably obsolete)

Il be ordering a mold in the near future and trying to find some suitable alloy. All I have I pretty soft as it was used for muzzleloading roundballs.

Just go ahead and ask the questions ... the large majority of us are willing to help you. Other noobies read these recent threads too and they learn a lot from questions asked.

[mdi]

Isn't it AMAZING that there are lots of folks on this site that do not know how or are tooooo Ignorant to use all the information in the site, without asking silly questions, that have been worked over for YEARS.... I don't mean to be an A.. , but use the information that is right here in your face.
I'm not being a jerk, but the site is set up with more information than ANY of us can use.. Have a good one and enjoy the site I am not jerking you around, just use the site and if you have more questions than answers, talk to the site managers, again this is not meant to be put down, just information. Look around ....:bigsmyl2:
Fortunately, Slow Elk is in the minority here. I have been around here for a while and still have trouble with the search function and google is sometimes difficult too (gotta get the exact wording). So, just ignore posts like this and ask any question. Some of us aren't born with all the information about casting, and enjoy questions

[Texantothecore]

Googling for reloading info can get you lots of bad information.


Asking questions on this board will get you good answers as there are a lot of real experts here.

Incorrect technique gets corrected quickly. I have been corrected a number of times and I am glad someone did. It saved me a lot of frustration and money.