Llama Extra Accurizing help please

[lental]

I have a Llama Extra 9mm/.38 that I have been shooting .38 Super through for about 25 years. My most common load is a 153g Lee LRN with 4.7g W231 at a muzzle velocity of 1059 fps. When I first inherited the gun from my dad, it shot about four inches high and four inches to the left at 20 feet. I adjusted the sight to center the shot but never could fix the "high" problem. However, over time and after about 5,000 rounds, it now shoots four inches low at 20 feet. Recently, using a Fiocchi 129g commercial load and compensating for the low shot, I was able to put all 10 shots in a 2-inch circle. I had never been able to do that before because the barrel and bushing fit pretty loosely and a good grouping at 20 feet would normally be about eight inches. I have now replaced the original 5-inch barrel with a 6-inch Roto and a new bushing. The barrel fit perfectly and the bushing is very snug. Alas, it still shoots four inches low at 20 feet.

The original slide stop is a little beat up so I've ordered a replacement for it but that's all I know to do. I've done a little minor gunsmithing but in this case I have no idea where to start to move the bullet strike up. I assume that either the front of the barrel is low in the slide or the rear of the barrel is high at the rear. I'd appreciate any suggestions or recommendations.

Len

[MtGun44]

Change the rear sight, make it taller. Leave the barrel alone.

Bill

[EMC45]

Change the rear site, make it taller. Leave the barrel alone.

Bill


Bill nailed it.

[lental]

Guys -- Thanks very much for your suggestion. I really hadn't thought about the rear sight at all. I guess after I initially adjusted it, it became sort of "out of sight; out of mind." yuk. Seriously, I do appreciate it and will get right on it. It's the most logical place to start. Thanks again.

[MtGun44]

Very welcome, glad to help. VERY easy to get into 'can't see the forest for the trees' mode sometimes.

PM me with the sight radius and I can calculate the amount of adjustment needed if you are not familiar
with this calculation.

Bill

[lental]

Bill -- Thanks. This is gonna sound really, really stupid, but what is the sight radius? Also, I've been looking at adjustable rear sights and have found one that fits my pocketbook at Midway but it says the dovetail tenon is a "Novak" cut. I don't know what that is and wonder if it would fit the standard military dovetail slot on this Llama. Thanks for your help!!

Len

[MtGun44]

SIght radius is the distance between the front and rear sight - the portion that you are seeing when you look at them
from the rear. Super accurate measurement isn't critical, nearst 1/4" is fine. Novak cut is for a Novak
sight, NOT the same as the military cut, and I am not at all sure that the Llama is the same as a Colt dovetail.

I'd suggest you send me the sight radius and the range you are shooting and how far off you are
shooting. I'll tell you how much you need to add to the top of the sight. Then either pull the sight
out CAREFULLY, a pusher is best, and have someone weld enough new steel to the top so you can
recontour it back to the correct new height, OR find a taller new sight. I think that being a Llama
you may be different than a Colt, so kinda out there by yourself as far as direct replacement parts.

Another way is to solder a thin piece of sheet steel to the back of the sight to provide more material
and then file that to make the new notch higher than original. Won't be pretty, but not too hard
to do. Read goodsteel's thread on soldering. Propane torch, flux, steel wool and solder are all
you need - well, a piece of sheet steel, about .040-.060 thick would be about right.

Bill

[lental]

Just want to say thanks to everyone here, especially Bill, for all the help in getting my Llama Extra on target. I was able to find a Springfield Armory adjustable sight that I used to replace the original sight and the gun is now shooting dead on at 50 feet. The new sight came with a Novak cut dovetail tenon which I had to cut down to fit the Llama dovetail. But again, using information found on Cast Boolits, I was able to make that adjustment with a rotary tool and file and in about an hour, the sight fit perfectly.
When I got to the range, I clicked the sight adjustment high, worked it down to zero at two clicks above the bottom, then I adjusted the windage to move it to center. On the last string of five that I fired, it was shooting less than an inch left at bulleye level. On my next trip, one more click of right windage shoot have me shooting dead center at 50 feet. I've marked it up as Project Complete and have decided to retire the Llama. I have a Rock Island Armory .38 Super on order which should get to me next week and that's what I'll be shooting going forward. Again, thanks to everyone here and elsewhere on Cast Boolits for the great help in getting this done. This is an incredible site. I just wish I had found it years ago.

Len

[MtGun44]

Glad to hear you have it shooting to the sights now. Good job recutting the sight!

Bill

[lental]

Bill -- Yeah...it really worked out well and was much easier than I expected. I got a lot of information and help from the dovetail cutting stickies here. It was kinda the same job in reverse. I'm not a real patient person but one thing I learned is that when you do a job like this, you absolutely must be patient. Someone here, it may have been you, said that it's easy to take metal off and really hard to put it back. I kept that in mind through the whole filing process. I think I may move it to the new gun when it gets here next week, assuming that the dovetail on the RIA is the same size and i think it will be. It's kinda sad to be retiring that gun but it's almost 100 years old and I've fired more than 5,000 rounds through it. At the same time, I think it's good to be putting it away while it's still working well. I appreciate all of your help and advice.

Len