Group buy 311291

[dubber123]

I got to try one group today after work, I had loaded 7 rounds, 2 foulers and five for a group. The load was 16 grains of 2400 in Federal brass, with a Federal large pistol primer. Water cooled WW's, sized to .312" lube was LBT blue soft. I have been having a heck of a time getting this rifle, a Savage 219 in 30-30 Win. to shoot better than 1-1/2" at 50 yds. This mould seemed taylor made for this rifle specification wise, so I had great hopes. Well, the group measured 2"+. RATS!. Oh well, I'll try another load I thought, and went back in the house. As I picked up, I noticed the elevator for the rear sight on the bench. Not surprising, as it fit terribly in it's slot I thought. Tonight while cleaning the gun, I noticed the front scope ring was tight against the rear sight. Weird. I looked closer, and the whole scope had crept forward under recoil, and pushed out the sight elevator! The scope was barely hanging on by the rear ring. I think I may have found my problem. Dummy.:roll:

[dubber123]

Tried again with a tight scope, 10 grs. of Unique. 5 in .725" , 4 in .420" at 50 yds. A major improvement! Now to get 8 or 9 pounds taken off the trigger, and I'll be in business.

[dubber123]

Tried 15 grains of 2400, not good, major verticle stringing. I'll drop to 14, and if no improvement, will go hotter. Cleaner than the Unique load, but no accuracy for me.

[45 2.1]

I got to try this boolit out in a new to me Krag. This particular rifle throws 0.311" boolits in patterns. I measured the inside neck diameter of a fired case and got about 0.313", so I checked what the first batch of boolits out of the mold were, 0.3135" with a 0.304" nose. Sized 0.313" I loaded one in the rifle, chamber fine but the nose didn't touch anything, hmmm............. I tried it anyway with some Unique and got a nice 1" three shot horizontal group at 100 yd. It looks like this odd dimensioned mold will work in this rifle at least. This rifle is an early one and doesn't have windage in it, anyone got a spare 1902 Krag rifle sight for sale?

[dubber123]

I'm glad someone else posted on this bullet, I was starting to wonder if I should bother reporting anything else on it.

[Pavogrande]

I have used 311291 in all my 30cal shooters since the late 50's -- 30/30 - 30/40 -30/06 and found it satisfactory - Even used it in the 7.7.jap , 7.62 russian and 89 Swiss. It did not sqeeze down well in the swiss but was ok in the others. For the 30/30 used 19gr 4198, 30/40 and 06 used 24g 4198 and 31gr Ball-c

[dubber123]

I just tried 10 grains of Herco, and had a nice 4 shot group of .276" center to center, got all excited and fumbled the trigger, blowing it to well over 1" at 50 yds. Another trash can target. I have gotten at least 3 of these lately with a sub half inch 4 shot group, and a flyer. I blame myself and the crappy trigger, but maybe I have some bullets with voids? I'd hate to think I have to start weighing them.

[Char-Gar]

Dubber... If the rifle will put four into .3" it will put 5 into .5" or less. Keep your nose to the grindstone and get rid of those fliers. Could be the bullet or the nut behind the butt plate.

Some folks do better firing very slow. I can do my best, most often, by firing my group quickly. I seem to be more consistant in rapid fire. By rapid fire, I mean as fast as I can, but still making certain the sight picture, breath and trigger control are properly attended to.

I suspect my ability to do better in rapid fire has to do with the uniformity of how I hold the rifle, shoulder and rest contact. I don' take my cheek off the stock or my hand off the stock. I just work the bolt, and fire. I am left handed, so I work the bolt with my right hand, keeping the left hand on the pistol grip and finger just outside of the trigger guard.

I also think this cuts down on eye strain, at least it does for me. You can look at or through a sight so long, things start to blur a mite.

I make certain, I start with a warm, but not hot barrel. I want the barrel slightly warm to the touch.

[Char-Gar]

4.5 2.1 ..... I have a first year (1895) production sporterized Krag with a nice bright barrel that runs .312 in the grooves. Like yours it take .313 bullet do do it's best work. Mine does very well with such large bullets. I suspect the big nose on this odd ball mold is helping things center up well in the long Krag throat.

[dubber123]

Dubber... If the rifle will put four into .3" it will put 5 into .5" or less. Keep your nose to the grindstone and get rid of those fliers. Could be the bullet or the nut behind the butt plate.

Some folks do better firing very slow. I can do my best, most often, by firing my group quickly. I seem to be more consistant in rapid fire. By rapid fire, I mean as fast as I can, but still making certain the sight picture, breath and trigger control are properly attended to.

I suspect my ability to do better in rapid fire has to do with the uniformity of how I hold the rifle, shoulder and rest contact. I don' take my cheek off the stock or my hand off the stock. I just work the bolt, and fire. I am left handed, so I work the bolt with my right hand, keeping the left hand on the pistol grip and finger just outside of the trigger guard.

I also think this cuts down on eye strain, at least it does for me. You can look at or through a sight so long, things start to blur a mite.

I make certain, I start with a warm, but not hot barrel. I want the barrel slightly warm to the touch.

Chargar, the triggers horrible on this rifle, very creepy and heavy. The worst part is it's not consistant. One time it will just be heavy, but fairly crisp, the next time it will be pull, pull, break.... nope, only halfway there. I have been shooting 7 rounds, out of a clean and oiled barrrel, dry patched just before. I know #1 Will be a flyer, usually high and right. I should load more and try to get a more properly fouled barrel first. This is also a light gun, with a small forearm and light contour barrel. I suspect it moves easily during the trigger break.

[Char-Gar]

Hummmm... Sometime heavy and crisp, sometimes heavy and creepy? There is something moving in there that should not be moving. It might be pressure from the wood or the wrong size spring or goodness knows what else. Without having the rifle in my hand, I could not venture a guess what the problem is, but whatever it is, there is a fix. There is always a fix! This is war, and you must have a winning attitude!!! Man must triumph over machinery!

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Try 10 gns of Red Dot.

Nice and bulky so takes up fair amount of volume, works great for me with Lee 170 gn gc.

[dubber123]

Try 10 gns of Red Dot.

Nice and bulky so takes up fair amount of volume, works great for me with Lee 170 gn gc.

I'll have to sneak into my brothers shop for the Red Dot, I don't have any in stock. My best results thus far have been with 10 grains of Unique, which I think has about the same flake size. Red Dot is worth a try, Thanks.

[dubber123]

Hummmm... Sometime heavy and crisp, sometimes heavy and creepy? There is something moving in there that should not be moving. It might be pressure from the wood or the wrong size spring or goodness knows what else. Without having the rifle in my hand, I could not venture a guess what the problem is, but whatever it is, there is a fix. There is always a fix! This is war, and you must have a winning attitude!!! Man must triumph over machinery!

I hope to have the action to this rifle in the mail shortly, a fellow in CA just did a revolver action job for me, and says although these Savage single shots are a royal P.I.T.A., he is confident he can get the pull to a crisp 2 pounds. For 40$. He seems to have a fixed price of 40$ for trigger jobs, so he is most welcome to tackle it! I'm guesstimating it at 10+ pounds right now.

[dubber123]

I had an interesting day with the GB 311291. I cast a fresh batch last night, and lubed them this morning. They actually look a little better than the first batch, not unusual for a new mould. Anyways, I loaded some with 10 grains of Unique, which has shown the most promise so far. With my brother watching, (so I tried my best), I fired a group, expecting it to be around 3/4" or less. We walked down, and to my surprise, (and annoyance), it was at least 1-1/2". I thought my previous groups had been flukes. I thought about it, and the only thing I changed was the batch of bullets. These were no wheres near even 24 hours old, so not fully hardened. With the low speeds I didn't think it would matter. I went back in, and loaded some with the old batch, now a few weeks old. I fired another group, (50 yds.) 4 in .365", 3 in .190", (hard to measure). with OF COURSE! my obligatory flier, making the five shot group right at an inch. I guess I better give the new batch a while to harden, and make sure I stay ahead. I didn't think the BHN would matter at this level, but I guess it does.

[AaronE]

Dubber...I have the same tugboat trigger on my 219...the OLD one with the striker instead of the internal hammer. If your guy will do a trigger job and it comes back good...please send me his addy and phone.

Thanks,

Aaron Everett

[dubber123]

Dubber...I have the same tugboat trigger on my 219...the OLD one with the striker instead of the internal hammer. If your guy will do a trigger job and it comes back good...please send me his addy and phone.

Thanks,

Aaron Everett

Aaron, will do. I will get it done as soon as my shipping guy gets down from his tree stand. He's only been up there for a month now, a couple more weeks and he should come straggling in.[smilie=1:

[w30wcf]

dubber123,
Many thanks for your range reports with the group buy 311291. I have not had a chance to cast any from mine yet but expect to do so within the next month or 2. I will post my results when I have them.

chargar,
Many thanks to you as well for making this group buy possible. :-D

Sincerely,
w30wcf

[David R]

Charger's :) 311291 :)

I have the lyman 2 banger and a 1917 enfield, winchester. It usually shoots pretty good. 1" @ 50 yards for 5 shots is usual using the lyman mold and 13.5 grains of Promo.

I loaded some up with the new mold and shot them against the ones from the lyman mold. Boolits were weighed after lubing, sizing and gas check. They came in from 179 to 180 grains. I threw back anything that was below 178.

These were shot @ 100 yards, 10 shots. Cold out just a little breeze. Iron Sights.


Both groups measure about 5 1/4"


The vertical string is from the LEE mold.

5864


The horizontal string with one flier is the old lyman mold.

5865

Charger YOU DA MAN

David

[hunter64]

I cast some up tonight and sized some .314 for my .303 British and it will just chamber, I haven't shot it yet but just wanted to see if it would chamber. I sized some .311 and tried it in my Winchester 30/30 and that is definitely a no go, way to big. Tomorrow I would like to try a .311 in my 30/06's to see if they will chamber, kind of think they will not in my garand but might in a converted mauser with a weird throat.

[dubber123]

I cast some up tonight and sized some .314 for my .303 British and it will just chamber, I haven't shot it yet but just wanted to see if it would chamber. I sized some .311 and tried it in my Winchester 30/30 and that is definitely a no go, way to big. Tomorrow I would like to try a .311 in my 30/06's to see if they will chamber, kind of think they will not in my garand but might in a converted mauser with a weird throat.

You never know as to size, I have a nice SC 03-A3 Springfield, and this boolit sized to .312" chambers just fine. .312" fits my Savage 30-30 perfectly also. Thats the beauty of this, you can make them fit just perfectly. I bet they will shoot great for you.

[hunter64]

Looks like the mold is an exclusive .303 brit mold, that is the reason I bought it was for my .303 collection. I tried it this morning on all my 30 caliber rifles and it did not fit any of them, I should have just tried it first without the gc's, oh well you live and learn. Besides I only made up 100 so I am out a couple of bucks in checks no big deal. It actually might fit my SKS but I don't have dies for it as I can get surplus ammo cheap, I think I have a friend that might have some dies I could try and see if it would work.

[dubber123]

Looks like the mold is an exclusive .303 brit mold, that is the reason I bought it was for my .303 collection. I tried it this morning on all my 30 caliber rifles and it did not fit any of them, I should have just tried it first without the gc's, oh well you live and learn. Besides I only made up 100 so I am out a couple of bucks in checks no big deal. It actually might fit my SKS but I don't have dies for it as I can get surplus ammo cheap, I think I have a friend that might have some dies I could try and see if it would work.

It just occured to me, the nose on these is whats fat, .304" or so on mine, thats probably what is causing the problem for you. Luckily? the bores on the 2 guns I bought mine for are big enough to use it. Shoots GREAT in my Savage 219. I bet it will do as well in your 303's.

[hunter64]

I would love to get to a range to try it out but it is -20 deg right now and snow.

[TAWILDCATT]

I use an original lyman mold. and shoot in 1903[1913]13 gr red dot 1680 fts.crony
and use red dot in all my military guns.the 06/at 100 yds is tack driver but site set for 300yds.:coffee::coffee:

[Larry Gibson]

Finally got around to casting some GB 311291s with a 60/40 WW/linotype alloy. Boy is it ever oversized! Mine run .303" on nose and a .314" sizer should just touch the bands and true them up. Good thing I have several .31 cals to try them in. The nose will not enter the muzzle of any .30 cal I have. Going to try them in the 7.65 Argentine, the .303 (Ross MK 10) and my Ishvek M91/28 Sniper 7.62x54R. They are more like an oversized Lee 312-185 than a 311291!.

Larry Gibson

[TAWILDCATT]

the 311291 was made for the 303 savage,and my Lyman is so marked.It works well in my 1903 and 30/30. I use red dot at 13 gr in 30/06.cronied at 1680fps.and makes groups 5 shots touching. never measured them. I would mike it but its in the work shop at this time.:coffee:[smilie=1::Fire:

[Larry Gibson]

My Lyman 311291's nose fits my .30s but it is a little on the small size. It actually is a fairly accurate bullet in all my .30s from 30-30 up through 30-06 if I don't pushing to fast (I don't want to get a couple members wrapped around the axle on this thread by saying "above the RPM threshold"). It actually shoots pretty well. However, like hunter64, the GB 311291 does not fit in any of my .30 cals. It does fit all the .31 cals though so it is useable to me, especially in the 7.65 Argentine and the 7.62x54R. Has there been any consideration on a 31291 with .311 driving bands and a .300 nose?

Larry Gibson

[garandsrus]

Larry,

I believe that a .310 +.003, -.000 (Lee's spec) and a .300 nose was the original intent of the 311291 buy. Lee ended up cutting it oversize and decided to not recut the molds. They offered the choice of keeping the molds as fulfillment of the group buy or a refund for anyone that wanted one. I took the refund...

John

[fatnhappy]

Larry,

I believe that a .310 +.003, -.000 (Lee's spec) and a .300 nose was the original intent of the 311291 buy. Lee ended up cutting it oversize and decided to not recut the molds. They offered the choice of keeping the molds as fulfillment of the group buy or a refund for anyone that wanted one. I took the refund...

John

I took the refund too. I'm glad to hear that it has been useful to other members.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

I believe that a .310 +.003, -.000 (Lee's spec) and a .300 nose was the original intent of the 311291 buy. Lee ended up cutting it oversize and decided to not recut the molds. They offered the choice of keeping the molds as fulfillment of the group buy or a refund for anyone that wanted one. I took the refund...

John

Thanks for the answer. I had thought it was supposed to be a regular 311291 and was surprised when i cast the first bullets. I just have been busy on other things and didn't pay attention. No regrets as it should work quite well in my .31s. I didn't get in on the 311041 as I thought I was good with the 311291 GB. I snoozed and losed! Anyone got a 311041 GB (if they cast out at .311 or so) for sale?

Larry Gibson

[Ricochet]

Only things I've shot this boolit in so far are my 1911 and 1896/11 Swiss long rifles, with the boolit body sized to .311". (Takes a fair sizing effort to do that.) Shoots reasonably well, though with the minimum 300 meter sight setting at 100 yards I have to aim at an indefinite point below the target backing board to get on paper so it's hard to quantify. I'd never get that fat bore rider to chamber in a K-31.

Every .30 mould I have has turned out to be a "Fat Thirty."

[NoDakJak]

Well Dubber, Welcome to the wonderful world of the 219 Savage. I love the rifle but what a piece of crap trigger. It seems to be a Savage specialty. As bad as my model 219s trigger is , it is still at least the equal of my several model 23 Savage rifles. I believe that if Savage brought both rifles back with a decent trigger that they would have a prize winner. Neil

[Char-Gar]

Fat noses on Boolits are an easy fix. I had Buckshot make me nose sizing dies in .300 and .302. Life is much better now! If you mess with 30 and 31 caliber rifles, a couple of these dies are a very good investment and solve many, many problems.

[dubber123]

Well Dubber, Welcome to the wonderful world of the 219 Savage. I love the rifle but what a piece of crap trigger. It seems to be a Savage specialty. As bad as my model 219s trigger is , it is still at least the equal of my several model 23 Savage rifles. I believe that if Savage brought both rifles back with a decent trigger that they would have a prize winner. Neil

Neil, I sent this one to Ca. to be worked on, and the guy sent it right back and said he wouldn't touch it.

My brother and I tore it apart, stoned the sear, and tightened up the bushing that was supposed to control horizontal movement of the hammer, (and sear).

I guesstimated it at 10# and inconsistant/gritty before, and on the first pass it came out at 4# and crisp. I didn't bother to go any lighter, it was such an improvement.:drinks:

[Jack Stanley]

I decided to accept the group buy mold even though it was a bit fat . I have a Brit and a Ruskie to use it in even though I wanted it for the Springfield 06 .

Mine dropped out of the mold at just over .314" and I gave then a light tumble of LEE Alox and allowed them to dry . A couple days later I added a gas check and pushed them through a LEE .314" die and tried a few in a M38 and was happy to see they'd work OK .
I ran the rest of them through a .311" die and added some 50/50 lube to use in the 06 . I found a load of nine point three grains of Universal clays would drive a magazine full into a thumbnail at thirty yards . I'm plenty happy with that and I'm sure there is enough lube on it to run any sane velocity with it . I was happy enough with this load to make up two hundred and eighty of them to fill up a thirty cal. ammo can I had laying around in need of a job .
Before I do a lot more with this batch , I'd like to try it in the Krag . I think the grooves are at .309" and I believe the throat will take a .311" bullet .

The mold took a little while to start making non wrinkled slugs even though I cleaned it with carb cleaner first . It probably cast five pounds of scrap and then all of a sudden , it started making nice looking bullets .
A project for the future is to see if it will shoot the same without a gas check at low velocity . Maybe this summer I can get to that .

Jack