Makeshift ballistic test with my Blue Dot/Cast Boolit load

[Animal]

Hey guys,

I shot a dry phone book with an hp-38/xtp load once for testing purposes and I had mild penetration, but I was able to recover and inspect the bullet. I decided to do a wet test today for my .357 mag. I used 9.4grs of Blue Dot, 158grn cast RNFP and a CCI 550 primer.

I have no idea what the BHN of the boolit is because they are commercial store bought boolits. I soaked a phone book in the sink for about an hour, then I opened fire. I put maybe 4 rounds through this book like it was butter. I had the book propped against a flimsy sheet of rotting particle board and the boolits even sliced through that.

The particle board was mounted in a frame directly in front of my back-stop. My back stop is one tandom load of georgia clay poured into about 15 stacks of tires 5 foot tall. The clay that was left over from filling in the tire stacks was poured over the tire stacks. In short, I've got one tough back stop.

So I ran my forearm all the way into the clay trying to follow the boolits path. I couldn't find a damn one!

This load is extremely high in it's penetration value. While that okay for target practice, I need something that will expand similar to my xtp load. I refuse to put copper condoms on my boolits if it can be avoided. Should I look into a hollow point mold? or should I cast as soft as possible and add a gas check? I'm' not a castor yet, but I'm trying to become one.

[vmthtr]

Can I ask why you need expansion? With a through and through shot the deer will bleed out and the exit is here the bloodtrail comes from.

[Animal]

I'm not hunting. I load for defense. You are right though, this would be a good hunting load if I wanted to use it for that.

[Jupiter7]

Yes, hollow points are in order. Most any commercial cast solid will pass straight through most stuff with very little boolit deformation. Personally, for SWC profiled boolits, I'd download to 38spl +p ballistics. May not expand, but will leave a nice .35 caliber hole.

[Animal]

Yes, hollow points are in order. Most any commercial cast solid will pass straight through most stuff with very little boolit deformation. Personally, for SWC profiled boolits, I'd download to 38spl +p ballistics. May not expand, but will leave a nice .35 caliber hole.

Jupiter7,
I just loaded up a few more with Hodgdon Clays at 4.6grs. This should bring velocity down to the higher end of a +P .38spl load. I'll see if I can scrounge up a few more phone books and see if I have less penetration without harming accuracy... we'll see.

[HiVelocity]

Animal,

If you're loading for defensive purposes, why not water cool your cast bullets. A good friend of mine tested the Mihec 360-640 HP that I cast and water quenched, loaded
into mixed 357 brass over a stout load of Power Pistol (I think), and shot into 4 water filled milk jugs. The bullet penetrated 2 jugs and then fragmented into 5-6 separate pieces, and found in the 3rd jug. Combined weight was about 95 grains total weight. Perfect, I think.

Just food for thought,

HV

[shoot-n-lead]

Animal,

If you're loading for defensive purposes, why not water cool your cast bullets. A good friend of mine tested the Mihec 360-640 HP that I cast and water quenched, loaded
into mixed 357 brass over a stout load of Power Pistol (I think), and shot into 4 water filled milk jugs. The bullet penetrated 2 jugs and then fragmented into 5-6 separate pieces, and found in the 3rd jug. Combined weight was about 95 grains total weight. Perfect, I think.



Just food for thought,

HV
The problem with this is the bullet will not reliably perform in this manner. It would be good if it did...for defensive purposes.

[Zymurgy50]

If you ever have to pull the trigger in a defensive position you better have factory loads or a very good lawyer. Prosecution will jump all over handloads, asking why you had to load something that was even more dangerous than factory ammo....

[jmort]

"If you ever have to pull the trigger in a defensive position you better have factory loads or a very good lawyer. Prosecution will jump all over handloads, asking why you had to load something that was even more dangerous than factory ammo...."

This has been discussed ad nauseam, there has never been a case of self-defense in the history of the United States where someone has been convicted of a crime for using handloads. Non-issue. We know for sure that using 10 mm factory ammunition, getting firearms training, and having lots of guns and ammunition, was used as evidence against Mr. Fish. So using this same "logic" you are against 10 mm factory ammunition, firearms training and having lots of guns and ammo, right? Beause we know for sure that can get you in trouble.

"The bullet penetrated 2 jugs and then fragmented into 5-6 separate pieces, and found in the 3rd jug. Combined weight was about 95 grains total weight. Perfect, I think."

BTW, as for post #6 , that bullet is "brittle" and unacceptable. Bullet fragmentation is a bad thing. I've had .357 158 grain RNFP "Cowboy" ammunition that will blow through 4 gallons of water. That would be acceptable terminal performance for me.

[Jim]

If you ever have to pull the trigger in a defensive position you better have factory loads or a very good lawyer. Prosecution will jump all over handloads, asking why you had to load something that was even more dangerous than factory ammo....

Oh, Lord, not that again.

I'm gonna call you out like I did the last half dozen or so to make this claim. Show me documented evidence.

[jmort]

"Show me documented evidence."

There is none. There are about four cases that are recycled by Ayoob and his acolytes including their "favorite" where a guy murdered his girlfriend. None involved self-defense shootings.

[Animal]

1. These aren't carry rounds, they are my for my stash of SHTF rounds
2. I've done my homework on handloads for carry loads and I've made my choice.
3. I refuse to argue this point with anyone since I can't count on anyone to shoot the bad-guy for me. My bullet, my ***.

[ironhead7544]

If you want expansion, softer hollow point bullets are in order. Rim Rock Bullets makes a soft 158 gr SWCGC that you might try and see if it works the way you want. You could also make your own softer bullet loads but it is a bit tough to get expansion and no leading with soft lead and no gas check. It can be done but will take a bit of work.

Your original load looks good to me. Put those bullets in the right place and they will work for you.

[Animal]

Ironhead, if it is the HP38/XTP load you are referring to, I have no problem with that as my carry load. I'd just like to be able to replicate similar results with cast lead because I can produce thousands of boolits for SHTF purposes once I get the right mold. Depending on store bought boolits is something I'd like to get away from.

[PS Paul]

"Depending on store bought boolits is something I'd like to get away from".

Bingo! One big reason we do what we do, eh?

[TMenezes]

If you haven't cast a bullet yet I wouldn't start/learn with an hollow point mold. Several reasons, they are much more expensive than say a Lee 2 cavity mold, they require more skill to use, and more precise lead. Also you may not like casting, just cause I love it doesn't mean you will. Also for hollow points you want tin and no antimony if possible. Most SHTF lead is lead wheel weights, which make awesome penetrators but didn't expand well for me at least. The antimony makes the hollow points a bit brittle which is made worse by the 357 mags high velocity.

I have a suggestion you might like, buy a 44 special, 45acp, or my favorite the 45 colt. Buy a cheap aluminum mold that casts flat points or semi wadcutters. Then load your ammo to penetrate however shallow (or deep) your heart desires. The larger bore will punch a large hole without the need to depend on hollow points, will do so at lower pressures, and will not need gas checks. Wins all the way around, plus you get to buy a new gun :-)

Just my opinion and like the other guy says "its worth just what you paid for it"

[Slow Elk 45/70]

TMeneze, I like your train of thought...just what a man needs, An excuse to buy another gun!!!
I also like big bore hand guns, 44,special , 44,mag, 45 apc, 45colt, load between 750& 900 FPS with 30/1 lead mix and your favorite powder.. should work for you, just burn some powder to find your sweet spot. if you want a 357 load that doesn't over penetrate... keep the velocity down and use a hollow point@ about 900-1,000FPS. 30/1` mix on your boolit, if you want a harder boolit, water drop. IMHO

[Animal]

I have a ruger super redhawk in .44 mag. It truly is a sweet example of American hand-held artillery. It makes water jugs evaporate (practically) with a 240gr boolit.

I don't mind the penetration so much in my full house .357 loads as long as I can get good expansion. I've got plenty of stick on wheel weights that should make a nice alloy for hps. I don't mind getting the low bhn lead from roto metals to supplement the stick ons.

My original hp-38/xtp load shows excellent expansion at sub-magnum velocities. I like this aspect for urban situations because I don't want the boolit to pass through my intended target (at all or) with any deadly force.

I'll be getting a standard non hp mold to do the majority of my casting with. I'll commit to an hp mold after I'm confident that I can handle the technique.

I hope I'm not chasing a pipe dream boolit. Thanks guys

[gamma50]

I have a older Lee 158 gr. gas check HP mold, it seems to expand well with 900 FPS. but I can't find it on Lee bullet mold site. mine is a single cavity mold, so maybe their not made anymore. you have to get casting, I saw bullets for sale with prices at $80 per 100, that's really BS!!

[HiVelocity]

Waaaay too many "experts" here for me.

HV