44 vs 44 vs 44

[taco650]

Went out to the range today with all three of my .44's (sorry, three is all I have) for some long over-due fun. I also wanted to test some reloads I'd made up for two of the 44's. All three are revolvers and two of them are single action, the other being a 6" Dan Wesson. The two singles are a Ruger Super Blackhawk (7.5") and a Uberti 1860 Army replica. The reload was a tumble lubed Lee 310gr FPGC over 8.0 gr Unique.

My shooting was at 25yds and I found the Ruger liked the load a little better than the DW. Both were in the 1.75" range but both had first-shot fliers that opened up the groups. The DW opened up more than the Ruger (2.75" vs. ~5"). I fired a second group from the DW and this happening was more pronounced than the first group.

Another thing I noticed is the cases came out of the DW noticeably dirtier than they did from the Ruger. I fired some other reloads with the same bullet out of both guns and the rounds fired in the Ruger still came out cleaner than they did from the DW. This second reload was warmer than the first (though below max) and the empties also came out easier from the Ruger than the DW. This could be due to the fact that with the DW I was pushing out 5 at once with a shorter rod and the Ruger is one at a time with a longer rod to push on.

I'm wondering why the empties came out dirtier from the DW than the Ruger. Obviously the chambers are a bit different between the two revolvers. I don't have the proper tool to measure chamber dimensions but I wonder if someone could "enlighten" me as to what's causing the difference in "cleanliness". Both were clean when I started the range session. I bought the DW new in 1987 and the Ruger is about the same vintage although I just got it a few months ago. It looked to be lightly used by the PO's. I've also shot gobbs of reloads through the DW over the years, most of them in the +P .44 special range. It's still tight but does have a little flame cut on the top strap but its had that for years and it hasn't grown.

Some of you might be wondering how the 1860 Army did. Well, not nearly as good as the other two modern revolvers. I only got off 10 rounds before it got too dirty. I also had issues with cap pieces jamming things up and had to take the cylinder and barrel off to get things working again. Accuracy was about 8-9" at the 25yd line. :cry: But it was fun making all that smoke!:bigsmyl2: My load for it today was 30gr of Goex 3f and a Speer .451 ball with a Wonder Wad in between ball and powder. Wish I'd gotten .454 but had a brain fart when I was buying the .451's. Still fun anyway!

[Arctic Blues]

So, why do you use a 310gr. boolit?
Brownies or?

Thanks!

Zeik

[Lonegun1894]

Squirrels of course!!! Everyone knows that the heavier bullet will hold together better instead of shattering so there is more squirrel meat left.

Sounds like a fun range session. Thanks for reminding me that my SBH is at the smiths so I can't play with it til it gets back. Do the 310s stabilize well in yours? I hay have to get a mold and try them in mine if they do.

[44man]

Load is not good for the 310 gr. The heavy boolits can not be shot slow and need around 1300+ fps. I get that boolit to 1" at 50 yards with my SBH and for an experiment tried a series of light loads. I was scattered over a 2' or larger pattern.
The best load I use in the SBH is 21.5 gr of 296 with a Fed 150 primer. I have taken many deer with it to over 100 yards, great boolit. You must reach twist stability. The DW will also like my load.
Dirty brass is common in the .44.
Use STP oil treatment on cylinder pins and ratchets. This also lets you shoot a lot longer with the 1860. Has to be the best pin lube I ever found. My SBH has over 70,000 heavy loads, uncounted light loads and has no measurable wear.
You might consider Felix lube over TL, much better accuracy.

[Tatume]

What is Felix lube?

[44man]

What is Felix lube?
OH MY, you are here and don't know Felix! Go to castpics to find how to make it.

[Tatume]

I know the member named Felix, but don't know Felix lube.

[Tatume]

Found it, in the Boolit Lube! forum:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?543-Felix-Lube-the-Short-Version

[taco650]

So, why do you use a 310gr. boolit?
Brownies or?

Thanks!

Zeik

I got that mold because... the boolit looked cool! Besides, you can buy cast 240's just about anywhere and I've shot plenty of those over the years already.

44man: As for shooting them too slow, I do have some H-110 loads that were much hotter and I didn't like the way the squared-backed grip frame on the SBH pounded into my knuckle on every shot. Will eventually get some Hogue grips for it so the heavier loads are less annoying. I know I won't wear out the SBH. Also, I lubed them with what I had at the time. In fact that's still all I have but a better lube is on the horizon 'cuz I don't like the feel of the boolits after tumble lubing them. A nice pan lube would be mo-betta IMO.

[44man]

Get Pachmeyer Signiture grips to get away from the trigger guard. My best shooting EVER is with them. Next is the BFR Uncle Mikes grips. Both are so close you can't tell.
Here are some shots with various fast powder, light loads with the 310 Lee. 81235

[44man]

I am not happy with anything over 1" at 50 yards but you see how fast a boolit can go to pot if you don't match velocity with twist. Kind of blew me away how bad it can get because I never tried it before since I hunt and want accuracy over anything.
I bought the RD 265 gr mold and found it NEEDS 22 gr of 296 for 3/4" at 50 and 1-1/4" at 100. My 330 gr needs 21 gr of 296 and has done 1-5/16" at 200 yards.
To download any of these and I can throw a spear better.
If you want light loads use a lighter boolit. I use a 245 gr with 7 gr of 231 or Unique and it shoots fine but NEVER a heavy boolit.
My Lee 310 and the LBT 320 is about 1316 fps, give or take and never slower.
My .475 and .500 JRH needs 1350 fps with 420 and 440 gr boolits. Both will do under 1/2" at 50 and I have shot under that at 100 but they fall apart with light loads and a stone is more accurate.

[Airman Basic]

+1 for the Pachmayr Signatures. Tames the Blackhawk, especially the trigger guard knuckle.

[taco650]

+1 for the Pachmayr Signatures. Tames the Blackhawk, especially the trigger guard knuckle.

The reviews I've read about them on Midway suggest fitting issues whereas the Hogue fit good. I'm not a fan of finger grooves on single actions. Would really like to get some smooth wood grips that make the grip look more like a Bisley and fill the gap behind the trigger guard enough to hide the square corner.

Also, I noticed the first 1/2-3/4 of barrel had light leading. I thought gas checks were supposed to eliminate leading. Am I wrong on that?

[Airman Basic]

Agree Hogue finger grooves are butt-ugly on single actions. Pachmayrs are downright attractive by comparison.

[44man]

The reviews I've read about them on Midway suggest fitting issues whereas the Hogue fit good. I'm not a fan of finger grooves on single actions. Would really like to get some smooth wood grips that make the grip look more like a Bisley and fill the gap behind the trigger guard enough to hide the square corner.

Also, I noticed the first 1/2-3/4 of barrel had light leading. I thought gas checks were supposed to eliminate leading. Am I wrong on that?
Yes, a GC does not stop leading if it skids.
You might not like anything like a Bisley. I hate them.

[C. Latch]

44man, I'm intrigued by your thoughts on needing more velocity for the bigger bullets. I seem to be finding the same thing with my .45 colt. I say 'seem to' because I haven't figured it all out yet. I assume your theory is more related to meplat size, not bullet weight....right?

I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this.

[44man]

[QUOTE=C. Latch;2380580]44man, I'm intrigued by your thoughts on needing more velocity for the bigger bullets. I seem to be finding the same thing with my .45 colt. I say 'seem to' because I haven't figured it all out yet. I assume your theory is more related to meplat size, not bullet weight....right?
It has to do with drive length in the rifling. You need proper spin. Of course, a heavy boolit will be slower then a light one but if it needs 1300 fps, 800 fps does not buy it.
I use heavy in the .45 Colt at about 1160 fps, not great, but where it is. My .44 will run about 1316 fps, again, not great but where it is. You never need faster, just a match.
The trouble is when anyone hates recoil and wants a light load with heavy boolits.
Meplats have no affect and I shoot WLN and WFN to 500 meters. I have not, in all these years found a WFN go unstable, it is merely getting the boolit to stable spin.
I do not and never promote over loading for pure velocity, each boolit needs what it needs and no more or less.
Only thing I do is load from starting loads, up 1/2 gr at a time. You should see groups get smaller and once too much powder is reached, groups will start to open at the same rate. Go back to the smallest group load because you do not need faster. Just plain simple work ups. I have no magic.
I will never give you stupid loads or anything unsafe.
The .45 Colt at over 1100 fps with a heavy boolit is just fine and anyone that brags about 1400+ will get a crosseyed look from me. So will those that bought the wrong boolit because it kicks and want to "poop" it out the end.

[taco650]

Yes, a GC does not stop leading if it skids.
You might not like anything like a Bisley. I hate them.

The Bisley reminds me of my 1860 Army grip which I REALLY LIKE.

Airman,
Yes the finger grooves are ugly to me but I've read they fit the frame better than the Pachmayrs. Does anyone have experience with them???

[Airman Basic]

Think a lot of the talk about ill-fitting Pachmayrs might come from all the different frame sizes that Ruger offers. I know I'm confused about which one fits which Ruger. Anyway, I've not had a problem once I figured out which grip I needed. Now if they'd only come back with the small presentation grip for Smiths. Oh well.

[C. Latch]

44man,

Thanks for the explanation. I'll keep that in mind. Been working on a load to hunt with for my .45 and that sort of insight could be useful.

[taco650]

It has to do with drive length in the rifling. You need proper spin. Of course, a heavy boolit will be slower then a light one but if it needs 1300 fps, 800 fps does not buy it.
I use heavy in the .45 Colt at about 1160 fps, not great, but where it is. My .44 will run about 1316 fps, again, not great but where it is. You never need faster, just a match.
The trouble is when anyone hates recoil and wants a light load with heavy boolits.
Meplats have no affect and I shoot WLN and WFN to 500 meters. I have not, in all these years found a WFN go unstable, it is merely getting the boolit to stable spin.
I do not and never promote over loading for pure velocity, each boolit needs what it needs and no more or less.
Only thing I do is load from starting loads, up 1/2 gr at a time. You should see groups get smaller and once too much powder is reached, groups will start to open at the same rate. Go back to the smallest group load because you do not need faster. Just plain simple work ups. I have no magic.
I will never give you stupid loads or anything unsafe.
The .45 Colt at over 1100 fps with a heavy boolit is just fine and anyone that brags about 1400+ will get a crosseyed look from me. So will those that bought the wrong boolit because it kicks and want to "poop" it out the end.

I'll agree with this and add that another factor to consider is the twist rate of the rifling. Faster twists stabilize bigger, longer bullets better than slow one. The reverse is true as well.

I'm not done with my load development with the slug in question, I just tried to make something usable with the powder I have on hand. As time allows, I'll play with this more. I'm also not looking for MOA accuracy, just big coffee can at 100yd type stuff. I haven't hunted in years (but I may start again). Minute of deer is fine for me.

[44man]

I killed many deer with my .45 Vaquero, works great. Only reason I don't use it much anymore is some grinch stole my sights! Need the red dots. Tried scopes but need full daylight. I could not see the deer or cross hairs in the mornings and evenings. Those long eye relief scopes sure get dark!
I put Pachmayer grips on the Vaquero, just bought them for the BH and they fit. I see they now added the Vaquero to the list.
They are listed for the SBH with the square trigger guard too. I have had no problems with fit. I like the presentation grips because I could shift my grip to line up on IHMSA steel as the range changed. You can't do that with a Bisley or double action so they might be better with finger grooves. You just can't believe how much grip shapes and angles will blow your shooting.
I hate smooth, shiny grip panels. A fugly gun will shoot best. I could never control a S&W or RH. The SRH just needs a firm grip. I have only shot one decent group in my life with a Bisley.
Even though we all have different hands, everyone that comes here to shoot has no problems with Pach's or Uncle Mike's grips.