High Shooting K-Frame

[Petrol & Powder]

I've got a "new to me" S&W Model 64-3 with a 4" barrel. The gun is in good condition and looked almost new inside but it shoots about 4" high at 15 yards with 158gr SWC AND 148gr HBWC. Because it has fixed sights and it's shooting high; my options are limited. The groups are OK, just high. I know that a lighter bullet may shoot closer to point of aim but I'd really like to keep my selection of bullet weights to a minimum.

Did S&W ever make a fixed sight K-frame with sights regulated for Lighter Bullets? Every fixed sight 38 Special S&W I've owned shot 158gr bullets close to point of aim.

I don't dare push the Hollow Base Wadcutters any harder out of fear that the base will separate. I was thinking about pushing solid Wadcutters faster. Will that work? Or should I consider building up the front sight somehow?
My current loads shoot fine in other revolvers.

[300savage]

Sounds like you are just going to need a higher front sight or a higher and tighter grip
I know what I would try first anyway.

[BK7saum]

What are your velocities? A little more speed should bring them right on down or definitely closer to point of aim. If these are lighter loads with the heavier boolits then I would expect them to shoot a little high.

[GabbyM]

Both my model 10's shoot wad-cutters high. I load 3.0gr of 700x. Which is a very fast powder to boot.
However they shoot dead on using my 150 grain TC bullet over a full published non +P charge of H-Universal.
My M-15 with adjustable sights shoots both load very close to the same POI. Go figure.

What I do with the m-10's and wad cutters is shoot paper using a bullseye target I can use a 6 o'clock hold with.

[HATCH]

You could mill the front site blade off and use a pin on insert

[JWFilips]

What loads are you using?

[Petrol & Powder]

What loads are you using?

4.2 grs WW231 with a 158gr lead SWC
3.1grs WW231 with a 148gr Speer HBWC

[Petrol & Powder]

You could mill the front site blade off and use a pin on insert

I know the history of this gun and I'd rather not modify it if possible. But just out of curiosity, how does one do that?

[taco650]

What are your velocities? A little more speed should bring them right on down or definitely closer to point of aim. If these are lighter loads with the heavier boolits then I would expect them to shoot a little high.

+1 and try the six o'clock hold that Gabby suggested.

[cwheel]

Bet you got the gun used ?? Also bet a barrel change has happened after leaving the factory. Might want to look the specs up. Have seen this happen several times before, after a barrel change from a different model with the same shape, but different sight heights. Often it is cheaper just to find the right barrel at a gun show and change it back to what it should be. If you fire factory 158 gr lead @ 25 yards using a 6 hold, you should hit almost center. If not, start looking at that barrel, especially if you don't know the guns history.
Chris

[Petrol & Powder]

I got the gun used but I know the history from new until my possession. It's never been re-barreled. I'm going to try a slightly faster load. My current loads are fairly tame and the dwell time in the barrel may be the issue. Haven't had the chance to shoot the new loads in it yet. The current barrel is in excellent shape and I don't want to muck around with it too much because I know the providence of this particular weapon.
I'm hoping a six O'clock hold and a faster bullet will be the solution.

[Outpost75]

Many fixed sight revolvers of that era were set up for 110-gr. Q4070 +P+ LE loads. A 110JHP with fullcharge should shoot to the sights.

[smkummer]

I have used a dab of JB weld to build up a front sight. It doesn't take much and with some files to dress it to the contour of the front sight, it looks somewhat OK after using marker of flat black or paint to somewhat match the flat blueing of a front sight. I can tell its there but usually others can not. I too like all my guns to shoot to the same point which is 6 oclock hold at 25 yards printing in the black. I prefer all my 38/357 revolvers to shoot the 158 SWC at 8-900 FPS in the black at 25 yards.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've always heard (read that as - I don't have any proof of what I'm about to say :razz:) that the LE +P+ 38 Special rounds were made to give LE a round with near magnum velocity without the evil "magnum" label. It was my understanding that despite the fact that the cartridge used a 38 Special case it was really intended to be shot in .357 magnum revolvers (such as the model 65 or model 13). Sort of like a politically correct 1970's version the old 38/44 HV cartridges so that the police could say, "no, we don't carry that evil .357 Magnum cartridge [smilie=1:"

[Petrol & Powder]

I have used a dab of JB weld to build up a front sight. It doesn't take much and with some files to dress it to the contour of the front sight, it looks somewhat OK after using marker of flat black or paint to somewhat match the flat blueing of a front sight. I can tell its there but usually others can not. I too like all my guns to shoot to the same point which is 6 oclock hold at 25 yards printing in the black. I prefer all my 38/357 revolvers to shoot the 158 SWC at 8-900 FPS in the black at 25 yards.

I'm going to try some faster loads in an effort to the P.O.I. closer to the P.O.A. but your suggestion sounds like my next stop if that doesn't work. I thought about getting a good machinist to drill & tap a hole directly on top of the sight and then place a small cap screw in the hole. I could file the screw to the needed height and width. If I wanted to return the gun to original there would only be a small hole in the sight blade that I could fill with a threaded plug. I might be over thinking this, JB weld would be simpler.

[300savage]

Jb weld only sounds good in theory, first time you bump it goodbye.

[Petrol & Powder]

Well I finally got a chance to shoot the Model 64 with better loads. Using 4.4 grains of WW231 under a 158 LSWC and a six O'clock hold it would put the rounds on target every time if I did my part. With 3.3 grains behind a Speer HBWC it would shoot almost the same P.O.I., even out to 25 yards. Both of those loads are listed as maximum in my Speer #12 manual. (but under max in other manuals?) The SWC were cast out of 16:1 lead/tin and were fine. The Speer HBWC's were starting to lead a bit, maybe getting to edge of how fast they should be pushed.

Thanks to all for the advice! I like to keep my loads on the mild side but this was one of those times when it needed just a little more speed to make it work right.

[JWFilips]

From what I'm hearing here you are on the right track. Yes +1 for 6 o'cock hold on any fix sight S&W's That is the traditional sighting system for pistols. (You don't have those god auful orange insert sights & trying to put them where you want the boolit to go are you?) A pistol sight should be back on black with a 6 o'clock hold ( You figure out bull size) I use 1 1/4 " at 25 yds but that is me & my loads. Fixed sights: aim where the best boolit impact shows "on" & is duplicatable then adjust your load or aim accordingly. Just my two cents

[376Steyr]

You could also experiment with a different set of stocks (grips) on the gun. Switching from rubber to wood, or vice versa, might make a big change.

[BCRider]

I know that the model 10's come regulated for the classic 158gn load. But I'm wondering if the factory set load for sighting was lighter for the model 64? Can you find some 125gn loads to try? Or is it possible that part of the history of this gun could have involved having the front sight shortened and shaped to shoot well with 125gn ammo?

You've "fixed" your problem by using the 6 o'clock hold but really it's not fixed. You're simply covering up the issue. The problem with a 6 o'clock hold is that it depends on using the SAME target at the SAME distance ALL the time. It makes the gun rather useless for random targets at varying distances. But if you only use the gun for classic bullseye shooting at fixed targets and fixed distances then there is certainly no need to do anything more than what you're at already.

[Petrol & Powder]

No, I "fixed" it with a heavier charge. It now shoots center of the target, which happened to be the paddles on a steel dueling tree but I could see the hits. It hit center at every distance from about 10 yards to better than 25. The front sight is unmodified it just needed a little more speed to get the bullet out of the tube at the right time during the recoil impulse.

[taco650]

You've "fixed" your problem by using the 6 o'clock hold but really it's not fixed. You're simply covering up the issue. The problem with a 6 o'clock hold is that it depends on using the SAME target at the SAME distance ALL the time. It makes the gun rather useless for random targets at varying distances. But if you only use the gun for classic bullseye shooting at fixed targets and fixed distances then there is certainly no need to do anything more than what you're at already.

Not if he practices at various differences. If he does, then he'll know where to hold.