My 9mm cast boolit loads vs four 9mm pistols

[Vulcan Bob]

Hi all, this was my first venture into 9mm loading and before I get into the details I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks for all here for the help I really needed! Well the original mission that I had was to find one cast bullet to use in (read feed, fire and function) in four different pistols, a fools errand I thought, the following is the details and results.

The bullet, I chose the RCBS 9mm-124-CN. These cast at 130gr with straight COWW and .359 diameter, sized to .357 diameter and lubed with SPG.

The die set, I chose, the Lyman four die M type set.

The Pistols
1. S&W full size M&P four inch barrel
2. S&W 39-2 four inch barrel
3. Rock Island Armory 1911 Tactical, five inch barrel
4. Argentine licensed by Browning, Hi Power five inch barrel

The loads. After much thought I went with Bullseye and Power Pistol.

Load one, 3.9gr Bullseye, CCI-500 primer in once fired WW cases to an OAL length of 1.050", taper crimped to .375".
Load two, 5.0gr Power Pistol, CCI-500 primer in once fired Federal cases to an OAL of 1.050", taper crimped to .375".

Cases were not measured or trimmed and were reloaded for each session with the same loads four times.

The Range sessions, one pistol per day with 25 rounds of each load for a total of fifty rounds per pistol.

The results.

Reliability, each pistol fired all fifty rounds with no issues. They all fed, fired, and ejected with no malfunctions.

Accuracy, each pistol was fired from the bench at fifteen yards with five rounds and then the remaining twenty rounds offhand at fifteen yards with each load for a total of fifty rounds fired.

1. S&W M&P, overall fair accuracy and shot to point of aim. Both loads about the same accuracy.

2. S&W 39-2, overall fair accuracy and shot a bit right of point of aim. The Power pistol load was the clear winner for accuracy.

3. Rock Island Armory 1911, very good accuracy overall, shot to point of aim. The Power pistol load edging out the Bullseye load.

4. Hi Power, good accuracy and shot to point of aim with both loads. Showed hints of very good accuracy but with its terrible trigger pull I think it was hard to shoot it to its full potential.

Barrel leading.

1. S&W M&P, none.

2. S&W 39-2, a thin wash from the chamber to the end of barrel. Eight passes of a dry bronze bore brush removed all leading

3. Rock Island Armory 1911, just a hint of leading right at the end of the chamber, two passes of bronze bore brush removed all leading.

4. Hi Power, none.

Surprises, well I guess that it was the fact that all the pistols functioned properly. The big surprise was that the Hi Power fed this bullet as it is notoriously finicky about what it eats. Also I didn't lose any cases!

Post script: As a follow up I wanted to see if increasing bullet diameter to .358" would affect chambering and accuracy and as I already had some sized to .358" for use in .38 Specials I loaded up fifty rounds of each load using the same cases for one box and new Starline cases for the other. I did not change the taper crimp die and they came out to .376" one thousand over the .357" sized rounds telling me that the taper crimp did not swage down the .358" bullets, no bulging of the cases. Shot em today out of the RIA 1911 and S&W 39-2. Functioning was flawless and the S&W showed a marked improvement with the Power pistol load and The RIA showed a bit better accuracy with both loads.

Anyhoo I am pleased with my initial results and now will do a bit of tweaking to see if improvements in accuracy can be had. Thanks for looking and I hope I did not bore anyone too badly!

[MtGun44]

Good results. In my experience, .358 is the most likely to work well. Sounds like
you found the same thing.

Bill

[380AUTO]

Great write up. Sounds like your off to a great start!

[detox]

Nice write up. Which 9mm is your favorite? I wish i had a Colt Lightweight Commandor in 9mm

[Vulcan Bob]

Nice write up. Which 9mm is your favorite? I wish i had a Colt Lightweight Commandor in 9mm

Boy that's a tough one as I tend to get real fond of all my handguns. Well the S&W M&P is a good tool, has never malfunctioned with anything I ever fed it. The Hi Power has that classic pistol hold on me. The RIA 1911 is a fine pistol has never malfunctioned and shows very good accuracy for a low priced 1911. But I gotta say my old 39-2 is my favorite, its the most handsome of my nines, always worked well for me and fits my hand like a glove. Just don't tell the rest what I said, don't need any dissention in the safe you know!

[ultramag]

You have the ability to chronograph the Power Pistol load by any chance?

[Vulcan Bob]

You have the ability to chronograph the Power Pistol load by any chance?

Why yes I do. Just gotta dig the chrono out and find the tripod! Sometimes its hard to use it at my range as I have to be alone on the range so I can drag the bench back far enough to be able to set up the chrono tripod. The ground drops off a few feet just past the shooting bench's and wont allow the use of the chrono without moving the bench back. The loading data suggests a velocity of around 1,100 fps but you know how that works! Give me a few days or a week or so and look for a new post by me about chronographing 9mm loads.

[ultramag]

Why yes I do. Just gotta dig the chrono out and find the tripod! Sometimes its hard to use it at my range as I have to be alone on the range so I can drag the bench back far enough to be able to set up the chrono tripod. The ground drops off a few feet just past the shooting bench's and wont allow the use of the chrono without moving the bench back. The loading data suggests a velocity of around 1,100 fps but you know how that works! Give me a few days or a week or so and look for a new post by me about chronographing 9mm loads.

I'd definitely be interested. I didn't go into much detail earlier as I was just reading through on my phone but I do have a specific reason for asking.

I'm working up 9mm loads with Power Pistol now as well and I'm loading the Lee 356-120-TC sized at .358 and lubed with BAC. All dressed up and ready to load they weigh in at 125 gr. +/-. With no actual data for this bullet a little load extrapolation is required. When this bullet is compared to the Lyman #356402 that does have data in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition it seems quite similar and if seated .060 deeper the amount of empty space in the case is very near the same I believe. It also seems fairly comparable to the RCBS boolit you're loading. Anyway, the Lyman #356402 data shows a OAL of 1.110" (less the .060" I mentioned beforeis 1.050")and the RCBS 9mm-124-CN is listed at 1.050". Both have similar design, bearing surface, etc. to the Lee 356-120-TC. This lays out the high points of how I determined where to start even though I can find no printed data for my bullet.

I used the 5.0 starting charge of Power Pistol and loaded 5 or 10 rds. each for my two 9mm's with an OAL of 1.055". Everything cycled fine but seemed a little stiff in the recoil dept. and the brass was ending up farther away than I really like. I decided to drop it down to 4.5 gr. charge and see if both pistols would still function. They did, with the XDs9 laying them right near me like I like. I loaded 100 rds. at that point to chronograph and shoot groups with and they came in just under 1000 fps and while they shot decent weren't exceptional. I've read that 9mm needs to be kept a little above 1000 fps to shoot well usually so I decided to go ahead and load a batch with the 5.0 gr. charge to chronograph and shoot for groups. Well, they shot exceptionally well, however they were flat moving. They chrono'd at 1330 fps!!! I was quite surprised to see those numbers, but I believe the data to be good. It was one ten shot string each from two different 9mm handguns. The extreme spread and standard deviation figures on the 5.0 grain load were very good as well...not too big of a surprise considering how well they grouped.

I've loaded another batch at 4.7 gr. and will be testing them as soon as I get a chance. In the mean time I was just kind of curious to see how close the numbers in print were to real world results when you had the actual components listed. If you decide to drag the 'ol chrony out and test them I'd sure be interested in your findings.

[Vulcan Bob]

Hey there Ultramag, as Nise and the rest of us has discovered results do vary! Anyhoo that RCBS 9mm-124-CN drops for me with COWW alloy at 130 grains, six more than the loading data available. I did notice that recoil with the five grain Power Pistol load felt a bit snappy and did toss the cases a bit further than the 3.9 Bullseye load. 1,330 fps, that would have surprised me too! I dug out the chrono and tripod, loaded up fifty rounds and with luck I'll have the range to myself tomorrow morning and can use the chronograph. I plan to clock the four inch M&P and the five inch RIA and see what happens. Check this thread tomorrow afternoon or so and I'll let you know what happened or not!

[ultramag]

Sounds great! I'll keep any eye out and appreciate your efforts.

[Vulcan Bob]

Hey there ultramag, well I had the joint to myself and was able to do my thing.

The load,

RCBS 9mm-124-CN, COWW alloy at 130gr, sized to .358", lubed with SPG.
5.0gr of Power Pistol
CCI-500 primer.
OAL 1.050"
taper crimped to .376"
5-F Federal case, temp at sixty nine degrees
measured at ten feet from muzzle with a Competition Electronics Pro Tach

The results,

S&W M&P four inch barrel, 10 shot average, 1,111 fps

RIA 1911 five inch barrel 10 shot average, 1,130 fps

Hope this helps you out!

[Shiloh]

.357 works good for me. .358 noticeably better. Try it out.

Shiloh

[ultramag]

I sure appreciate the effort sir! I can hardly believe there's that much difference in those two bullets. I also can't argue with the proof hard numbers bring to the table.

Thanks again!

[Vulcan Bob]

I sure appreciate the effort sir! I can hardly believe there's that much difference in those two bullets. I also can't argue with the proof hard numbers bring to the table.

Thanks again!

Hey ultramag, you are more than welcome and now I also know what they are doing! Yeah it sure is interesting how little differences can sometimes make for a big change. What surprised me this morning was how little difference in velocity there was in the five inch barrel compared to the four inch barrel. Well each gun is different and I will have to check the Hi Powers five inch barrel velocity and see what happens. You take good care now.