Shot the H&A 45cal target underhammer for the first time today

[GARD72977]

I have to say this is my favorite gun to shoot off hand that I have ever owned. I bought it several months ago along with the pistol. I got a mold for the Magma and cast up several hundred round balls. I was a little worried about the large spur left by the mold. did not seem to make any difference at short ranges.

I taped a coke can to a barbwire fence and walked off about 30 paces and took the first shot. Didn't see anything move. Figured I just flinched a little. I loaded the gun again but figured I would look at the can just in case. I had hit it. I ended up shooting about 25 shots form 30 to 35 yards at a few targets and only missed once. It is a pleasure to shoot. I am way out of practice so I did better than I expected. I really enjoyed shooting this gun. The extra heavy barrel makes a huge difference when shooting off hand.

Load was 40gr of KIK 3F. Started with that and it shot well so I did not go up today. Have some swiss I want to try.

[pietro]

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U/H rifles rock !

I use a .36cal H&A for small game:

http://imageshack.us/a/img151/9503/dscn0798u.jpg


I'm also a big fan of Holy Black FFFg, ILO a BP substitute, in my BP rifles.



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[Hanshi]

These are very fine rifles. My ancient UH .45 earned its spurs a long time ago.

[GARD72977]

I shot again today expecting to improve on what I did yesterday. Well it did not happen! I could not get group well. The underhammer rifle was all over the target. The pistol was even worse and the little 32cal crocket just kept shooting way to high. Was not a great day of shooting. The 45 rifle was burning through the patches. I was starting with bear grease and spit patching after the first shot. I may try a thicker patch.


I have a question for those that have H&A underhammers. My rifling is very shallow. Just wondering if the bbl has a lot of wear or if it is made that way.

[rhbrink]

Could have been made with shallow rifling or a lot of muzzle wear. You didn't mention the ball diameter or patch thickness but sounds like to me you need a bigger ball and tighter patch.

RB

[1Shirt]

Had one in a 36 and was dumb enough to trade or sell it, cant remember which. Was a sweet little rifle!
1Shirt

[GARD72977]

Ball is .440 the bad part is that I already bought the mold for the magma . I was using a .10 patch next time I will try a .15 patch. I really need to mic the balls and see what they measure.

[Lead Fred]

Finally, a real muzzleloader :-D

Me thinks a 15 patch is in order. Same thing I use with a Lee mold, has worked great for years.

[GARD72977]

Just checked and I only have .10 I guess in need to get a order placed to TOTW since I have the targets coming in for the postal match. The rifling seems more shallow in the rifle than in the pistol. I just hope I can get it shooting like I want.

[GARD72977]

Here is a pic of the pair80872

[rhbrink]

.440 ball will probably work just fine but I'm guessing that heavier patch is needed .015 to .020 and work up on the powder charge 5 grains at a time until accuracy is reached. If possible try to find some of the fired patches they will tell you a lot about the ball and patch combination.

RB

[GARD72977]

I did find some today. They were almost burnt up. Most of the patch was actually burnt away. some of them had holes in them

[rhbrink]

That is not what you want! Very much need a tighter patch spit lube is fine works great and has been for hundreds of years. You could probably find some pillow ticking or denim locally, Wallmart or fabric shops then you need to wash it at least once twice is better to remove the sizing when the cloth is made. Just make sure that the fabric is 100% cotton.

RB

[Nobade]

I have a pair almost like yours except the rifle has a 20 inch barrel on it. I find it shoots very well with a .440" ball and Brownells Twill cleaning patches. They are just about the perfect thickness, strong material, precut and cheap. I also found out I couldn't get it to shoot for beans with FFg but when I switched to FFFg it started to come alive and shoot tiny groups. Oh, and wear a long sleeve shirt!

One other comment - those nipples are threaded 1/4 - 32 TPI. They don't interchange with normal ones.

-Nobade

[GARD72977]

I ordered some .15 , .18, and .20 patches for TOTW. It is just easier for me to order than go the fabric store. If I find what I need and I decide to by fabric and cut it. Can I cut square patches or do they have to be round?

[rhbrink]

Either will work I like to cut mine at the muzzle.

RB

[1Shirt]

When I was competing, I always cut at the muzzle, and kept the strips of ticking around my neck or on the pouch strap. Way back I always spit the patch as well.
1Shirt!

[John Allen]

Gard, I always have my eyes open for underhammers. So far I ahve not found one but I am looking.

[John Taylor]

Under hammers are a hobby for me but I end up selling almost every one I make. Still have the 62 that I built years ago and used in competition and a little 32 with brass frame. I have an original that was missing the hammer and trigger that I will rebuild someday. How about an under hammer flinter?
http://s95.photobucket.com/user/johnptaylor/media/underhammerflint.jpg.html?sort=3&o=17

[GARD72977]

I made it back to the range today and shot the 45UH again with thicker patch material. The results were much better. I had signed up for the postal match so I just got shot a few shots and called it good enough for now. At 25 yards it was just a ragged hole for 3 shots. I did ok on the match targets but would have done better if I had sighted it in. It was shooting low and I had to am at the top of the squirrel target. That is hard for me to do. I like it to have a gun sighted so the whole target sights on top of the front sight. Overall I am very pleased with the results. Im going to spend some time working up the load. I was using 45gr of KIK 3f.

[rhbrink]

Great!! 45 grains is probably OK at 25 yds for more seriuos load developement move out to 50 yds when you gain more confidence and slowly go up on the powder charge. 5 grains at a time I'll almost bet that somewhere around 60 grains will really shoot well. Keep looking for the fired patches and check them out carefully looking for any tears or burnt places. Wipe between shots!!! I know that a lot of people say that you don't need to clean no stinking rifle, bull hocky! Want accuracy? Clean IT! Besides that it's a whole lot safer especially with a new shooter. You might have to be carefull with a underhammer to not get too much mositure down around the nipple I like to use a cleaning jag that is just large enough the let the patch ride down the barrel without pushing a bunch of fouling ahead of it, when you reach the bottom and reverse the patch coming back out then it grabs the fouling and pulls it out. Then a dry patch pull it out turn it over and repeat. Consistency is the key for accurate shooting.

RB

[KCSO]

Those darn H and A underhamers just make me mad. We had a kid who use to come to the shoots and just clean house with his U/H that he paid like $50 for used. Here are al us guys shooting custom Hawkens costing $500 or more getting beat by a $50 gun. Luckily he got the bug and had a custom gun made and then HIS son started beating him with that old underhammer.

[rhbrink]

They'll do that to you, yep sure will. Ain't right something that simple and cheap to shoot that well.

RB

[GARD72977]

Things have improved a lot. The most accurate loads so far have been 50gr (3f KIK) RB cast from stick on wheel weights (magma .440 mold) RB's come out .4385 Patch material is .026 thick. The first 10-15 shots can be started with the short starter. after that the starter needs to be tapped with a piece of wood to start the ball. I was holding 2" groups offhand with a lot of shots clustered in less that a inch (42yds). Shooting 12oz aluminum cans at this distance was not a challenge. Everything was offhand today. I need to take my folding table next time. The rifling is shallow in the barrel. Just wondering if this is why it likes such a tight patch.

I need to go up a little on the power charge also. So far the more powder I use the more accurate the gun shoots.

Is it common to have to lightly hammer a short starter to get a ball started? Just wondering If I am a little too tight on the patch. I could also wipe the barrel after 10 shots. Just trying to get a load for the monthly ML matches. I don't want a flyer the first shot after wiping.

[JeffinNZ]

What I like about U/H gun is the direct ignition. The cap fires straight into the charge as a flinter does. No turning the spark 90 degrees through bolsters and patent breeches. Gotta be good.

[rhbrink]

Sounds like you are coming along very nicely. If the ball size and patch thickness is working for you and your rifle don't worry about it shoot and enjoy. Later if you think that you can get a bit more accuracy then that is the time to experiment a little. A lot of the Numrich barrels had shallow rifling but they seemed to shoot very well. I have a old Douglas .50 barrel that is a lot more shallow that I would like but it shoots very well but I do have to run a ball .005 under bore size and .020 patching. And I load it with short starter with several taps with a plastic mallet. Hunting I use a ball .010 under sized and pillow ticking not quite as accurate but that combo has killed a number of white tails.

RB