Latest Info:New NFA proposal 2 require CLEO cert on ALL transfers

[L1A1Rocker]

The previous 'abstract' was apparently dis-information from BamBam. Here is the latest proposal from Friday:
http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/inside-atf/2013/082913-wash-machine-guns-destructive-devices-and-certain-other-firearms.pdf

It requires CLEO cert on ALL transfers including Trusts and Corps.

Please spread this info far and wide so that the dis-information is countered.

[snuffy]

CLEO??¿¿ I knew a guy we called cleo, was the last four letters of his surname.

[USAFrox]

Probably certified law enforcement officer. Just a guess.

[L1A1Rocker]

Ok, for those that don't know. CLEO is for Chief law enforcement officer.

In order to process the transfer of a Title II firearm (Short barrel shotgun/rifle, silencer, machine gun, etc) you have to have your docs signed by the CLEO. The only significance of the signature is that it states that you are not currently wanted, and the pictures and fingerprints in the application packet belong to you. BUT, there is nothing compelling the CLEO to sign. If you have an anti-gun CLEO, or he/she just doesn't like you (didn't contribute enough to his re-election campaign?) you are S.O.L.

People have been able to get around this though by forming trusts or corporations. With those legal routs there are no photo's, fingerprints, or CLEO signoff. That's the way it has been since 1934. You still had to do the NICS check and a yellow sheet when picking up the item from your FFL though. NOW, BamBam is going to re-do it all and say that CLEO signoff is required for ALL applications.

This has NOTHING to do with "closing a loophole". There is NO loophole, there has never been a felon stupid enough to try and form a trust to get a Title II firearm. This is about trying to stop law abiding people from purchasing Title II firearms, period.

[popper]

I believe it is applied to all guns in trust or corp. Rocker is correct, it is to prevent transfer to anyone, so the gun has to be destroyed or sold through an FFL. Previous rule was no one in the trust could be a 'non-legal possessor', but now a 'check' is required.

[historicfirearms]

They want to make sure that no one who cannot legally possess a firearm doesn't set up a trust to get around that fact, at least that is part of the ATFs reasoning in the letter they sent out. Apparently someone was denied an NFA device on a form 4, so they set up a trust and applied for it that way.

Here is my question, what does a Cleo sign off do to certify that someone can legally possess a firearm? When I got my form 4 signed off, the sheriff just sat down with me for a couple minutes and we talked guns. If the ATF really wanted to prevent someone from backdooring the system, just require a NICS check for everyone on the trust. Simple. Unfortunately, the ATF has other motives.

[L1A1Rocker]

They want to make sure that no one who cannot legally possess a firearm doesn't set up a trust to get around that fact, at least that is part of the ATFs reasoning in the letter they sent out. Apparently someone was denied an NFA device on a form 4, so they set up a trust and applied for it that way.

Here is my question, what does a Cleo sign off do to certify that someone can legally possess a firearm? When I got my form 4 signed off, the sheriff just sat down with me for a couple minutes and we talked guns. If the ATF really wanted to prevent someone from backdooring the system, just require a NICS check for everyone on the trust. Simple. Unfortunately, the ATF has other motives.

First part. It NEVER happened! It is made up BULL. When the person that is the Trustee on the Trust (or corporation) goes in to pick up said item, A NICS CHECK IS STILL RUN. If the person is prohibited from having the firearm it is stopped there. OBAMA IS LYING!!!

Second part. I answered it up thread but will do so again. The CLEO certification is to 1) insure that the person is not under indictment (remember, this system was set up in 1934, way before computers). 2) to make sure that the fingerprints belong the person applying and 3) to insure that the photos are of the person applying. This is no longer needed. Computers take care of the indictment issue, and any notary could do the job just as well as a CLEO making sure the photos and fingerprints are of the applicant.

This is nothing more than putting antigun sheriff's into a position to block ALL Title II transfers.

[MaryB]

Only going to get worse with Obamas anti-gun ATF head

[dbosman]

Great. Our now gone, "chief" law enforcement officer took me in to his office for a "I don't like you people coming in here demanding your rights".
All I wanted was his signature on a piece of paper that state law said he shall sign, not may sign.
Ok, it was a Tec 9, but... That was the most accurate 9mm pistol I'd ever had up to that point, and its one of those I wish I still had.