Not quite sure here , am I wrong

[unclogum bill]

When I joined I figured this was a good place for someone who likes to shoot , cast lead and reload. Read the posting rules and placed a post this morning that had a lot of activity. Jist was we don't have to kill everything we see and don't have to view a trip to the woods as entering a war zone.
Now I'm guessing that if I said a put 100 rounds through a field mouse that would be OK. But saying let it be wasn't. Guessing when rules said it was open to all topics I went overboard cause I was accused of trolling and shut down. Guessing that while insulted to the max by being accused of voting for obummer, told to hunt with a long bow like the "rest of my tribe" that was not insulting , but giving me the verbal warning was OK. What I need to know is where I went wrong. Can anyone help? What can acceptable be.

[starmac]

You may not have had the intentions to but came off as a troll. As far as I know there is nobody on this forum that likes to kill just for the fun of it, but you called out a couple of members, just for the fun of it.

[unclogum bill]

You may not have had the intentions to but came off as a troll. As far as I know there is nobody on this forum that likes to kill just for the fun of it, but you called out a couple of members, just for the fun of it.
Still learning and thanks for the reply, Not sure what troll is , can you describe such . Also never went to the fun word , Giving examples is usually a good idea and killing causes you can is different than for the fun. But once again Whats this troll thing?

[Doc_Stihl]

Opening an inflammatory topic or subject for the sake of being confrontational would be an example of trolling.

[jcwit]

I failed to see his OP on that thread as confrontational, but others seemed to see it different I guess.

All depends on ones outlook. To a Native American I think the stand taken is all life is sacred. Not to be killed for the sake of killing.

Remember Christ's saying that he even see's the sparrow fall.

[Blacksmith]

Unclogum Bill

In your other post you specifically questioned the actions of four probably identifiable members of this forum and you are the new boy on the block. It would be like walking into a bar ordering a beer and then commence to tell people that you don't like how specific cars in the parking lot are parked.

You might want to spend some time reading other peoples posts before you fire a shot across their bow. Just as I read some of yours before posting this. If you click on the posters name you can get a list to all their posts so it is easy to do. You will find all types of people here from all over the world and you need to make allowances for differences in opinion as well as cultural differences, regional differences, and norms in various countries.

You should also spend a lot of time reading complete threads to see how many different people feel about many different topics. We have 148,461 threads our Posts are 2,052,453 by 30,290 Members so there is a lot to absorb. People who constantly pick fights or post things just to make people mad or upset don't last long here, a couple of warnings and suspensions and then they are asked to leave.

Spend some time getting used to this place and it can be one of the best sources of information on the internet. It is the way it is because the members like it that way and work hard to keep it from becoming like many other sites.

[youngda9]

I always think these anti-hunters are funny. It's as if they never took the time to think about the ways every single animal dies in the wilderness. They seem to believe that animals just fall over and die with a smile on their face.

ALL animals in the wilderness die in one of the following ways...it's been happening for a long time now. (Feel free to add to the list if I forgot something)
#1: Gets killed and eaten by other animals, a terrifying, painful, and horrible way to go. (Ever see a Lion disable it's prey and commence to eat while the animal is still alive?)
#2: Gets weakened by being old, sick, or injured and dies a slow agonizing death, many times by starvation(if not enough deer are shot their is not enough food and they do not survive the winter, a horrible sight)...if the animal is lucky it can proceed to #1 and die quicker.
#3: Gets hit by a bullet and dies a fast death.

I know which one I'd choose. :)

[Dean D.]

Doc and Blacksmith pretty much nailed it Bill. In my mind a Troll is basically just what used to be called a pot stirrer. We don't take kindly to them, nor to folks who point fingers and cast aspersions on other members.

[500MAG]

I'm not judging you just for one post. It did seem that you pretty much did identify and judge a few members on one of their posts. It's kind of like you took things out of context. I certainly welcome you to the forum.

[jcwit]

Seems as if there is a major misunderstanding as to what Bill posted, at least that's my take of it. He never said anything about being "anti hunting", he posted about killing for the sake of killing. Somewhat the same as going to the range and seeing a Robin or Cardinal down range and shooting it just for the sake of killing it. And of course these also are the ones that die terrible ends by whatever method, but is that the reason we should put them out of their potential misery?

[unclogum bill]

I failed to see his OP on that thread as confrontational, but others seemed to see it different I guess.

All depends on ones outlook. To a Native American I think the stand taken is all life is sacred. Not to be killed for the sake of killing.

Remember Christ's saying that he even see's the sparrow fall.
Thank you for some understanding. What I think we have is called "perception illusion " where if two people view the same thing they see different. Not so much cause they want to , but because of life's experiences that differ. One sees a brown bear and one sees a bear that's brown. One says a 25.06 is to light for deer and the other just smiles. Me , Montana , currently Oregon ,different. Well I walk the woods. this morning saw 4 blacktail in the meadow, Saw one beaver and could show you where two more were by the wet grass.If I had walked in on the balls of my feet, I would have seen them as well. Those were real eagles , all 5 together i watched. I wonder how many could tell me why it was coyote scat I saw and not dog. . Anyway it brings me back to memory's of my first tour where the desk Sargent explained this "the rules are to justify what has been done. I tried to explain a different way. I will watch and interject less. It appears neccessary.

[Jailer]

bill I also found your original post to be a bit of "trolling". Not sure why you think that members are killing animals just to kill them. Just because someone kills something doesn't mean they have to eat it. Pests and vermin sometimes need to be gotten rid of. I don't eat everything I kill.

I recently killed a coon I had no intention of eating. But! It had found a way into my garage and found the trash. It kept coming back no matter what I tried to keep it out. And it not only got into the trash it got into everything along they way too and made a mess of my garage. So it was dispatched at an opportune moment.

I also kill feral cats. They get into my pole barn and tear up and stink up the place. If they look like they belong to someone I shoo them off and they eventually stay away. If they look ill or scragly they get shot.

Just because someone deals with pests differently than you do, that doesn't give you the moral high ground to stand at the pulpit and condemn others for their actions.

[oldred]

I always think these anti-hunters are funny. It's as if they never took the time to think about the ways every single animal dies in the wilderness. They seem to believe that animals just fall over and die with a smile on their face.

ALL animals in the wilderness die in one of the following ways...it's been happening for a long time now. (Feel free to add to the list if I forgot something)
#1: Gets killed and eaten by other animals, a terrifying, painful, and horrible way to go. (Ever see a Lion disable it's prey and commence to eat while the animal is still alive?)
#2: Gets weakened by being old, sick, or injured and dies a slow agonizing death, many times by starvation(if not enough deer are shot their is not enough food and they do not survive the winter, a horrible sight)...if the animal is lucky it can proceed to #1 and die quicker.
#3: Gets hit by a bullet and dies a fast death.

I know which one I'd choose. :)


This something I have attempted to point out to some folks in the past and I have even mentioned the same thing here on this forum, while I don't condone killing everything we run across in the woods the fact is NONE of the animals we kill is destined to die a "comfortable" death, Mother Nature can be a cruel lady! How many animals will live to a comfortable retirement? How many can count on their relatives to care for them when (IF!) they get old? Of course the answer is none and while our hunting may shorten the lives of some of these animals it is also highly likely to prolong the lives of others. I don't hunt much anymore, I shoot a lot but I just lost interest in hunting, however I allow hunting on my farm and every year some deer, turkey and a LOT of squirrels are taken so I have no problem with hunting. Killing game "for the fun of it" and just leaving it lay (except for pests of course) is a whole 'nother story however!

[starmac]

Killing and leaving it lay here, will land you in jail. for the most part either the meat or hide has to be salvaged.

[mroliver77]

Killing and leaving it lay here, will land you in jail. for the most part either the meat or hide has to be salvaged.
Now here we have laws against using animals killed as nuisances. Road kill are to be left alone.

Uh I kill some animals that are considered game and leave them lay. We have so many creatures that they get diseased. They destroy property on a level that must be seen to be appreciated. I kill raccoon, groundhog, squirrels and vermin near my buildings as many and as often as possible.

We have not had good luck with many hunters.

[MaryB]

I popped a gopher last trip to the range, they dig in the berms and destroy them. Wild stray cats are fair targets too.

[gbrown]

This something I have attempted to point out to some folks in the past and I have even mentioned the same thing here on this forum, while I don't condone killing everything we run across in the woods the fact is NONE of the animals we kill is destined to die a "comfortable" death, Mother Nature can be a cruel lady! How many animals will live to a comfortable retirement? How many can count on their relatives to care for them when (IF!) they get old? Of course the answer is none and while our hunting may shorten the lives of some of these animals it is also highly likely to prolong the lives of others. I don't hunt much anymore, I shoot a lot but I just lost interest in hunting, however I allow hunting on my farm and every year some deer, turkey and a LOT of squirrels are taken so I have no problem with hunting. Killing game "for the fun of it" and just leaving it lay (except for pests of course) is a whole 'nother story however!


When I joined I figured this was a good place for someone who likes to shoot , cast lead and reload. Read the posting rules and placed a post this morning that had a lot of activity. Jist was we don't have to kill everything we see and don't have to view a trip to the woods as entering a war zone.
Now I'm guessing that if I said a put 100 rounds through a field mouse that would be OK. But saying let it be wasn't. Guessing when rules said it was open to all topics I went overboard cause I was accused of trolling and shut down. Guessing that while insulted to the max by being accused of voting for obummer, told to hunt with a long bow like the "rest of my tribe" that was not insulting , but giving me the verbal warning was OK. What I need to know is where I went wrong. Can anyone help? What can acceptable be.

I was going to keep silent, but I'm going to pitch my 2 cents in, regardless. I have known many good people in my life. Some were doing things I didn't believe in, but still, they were good people. Did those things that took care of everything, like make a living, pay taxes, take care of family, pay bills, etc. Now, a couple of them did things that did not gee-haw with me. Find a stray dog and tie it up and test your boolits on 'em? Repulsive to me. But, I didn't say anything. What was the best that animal could hope for? Like oldred says. If they had been torturing it, maybe different to me. 1 shot, 1 kill. I been taught--"Judge not, lest ye be judged." Shoot a 100 rounds into the field mouse? If the first one is good, the other 99 are a waste of ammo. Your call what you wanna do with your ammo. We all have opinions, like parts of the human anatomy. Don't parade yours, or you might find some that differ. I don't care what you think of me, you ain't paying my bills, just be careful where you tread.

[contender1]

I read this post first, then went & found your original post.
I did so trying to see with an open mind what others saw, including you.

It seems you were a bit upset with folks who appeared to be killing for the sake of killing. And you took to task folks who killed an animal that you would have left alone. Or for choosing to carry firearms they wanted to carry. Your statement about all we needed for hunting was a single-shot rifle.
The last time I heard a similar statement was from Rebecca Peters when she was promoting a world ban on firearms in a debate with Wayne LaPierre.
So, I can see how some folks got a bit bothered by your comments.

But, just as you pointed out, it's all in how you view things.

I an a state certified Animal Damage Control Agent. The state PREFERS we figure out ways to get people & animals to co-exist. However, thanks to people encroaching upon land used by animals, creating wildlife sanctuaries, putting out bird feeders & food for animals, etc, quite often animals become a nuisance to people. In my state, coyotes, & beavers are considered to be a BIG nuisance, and the state allows the LIBERAL killing of them. After seeing the millions of dollars in damage beavers have caused, or listening to the heartbroken lady who watched helplessly as a coyote killed her pet, you begin to understand why some people will kill certain species as often as they can.

So, all in all, you ruffled some feathers, because it APPEARED that some folks didn't think like you do. But, I'm sure that very, very, very few members here condone cruelty, wanton wasteful killing or other such activities. SO, please take a breath, back you & learn about the fine folks who do visit here.
So, you read other posts and didn't know ALL the details about WHY someone would kill a coyote, or carry certain firearms. Kinda judgemental, and impolite to some long time members here. Allowing that you have very few posts, people haven't gotten to "know you," & immediately used your comments as a reflection of your personality.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

When I joined I figured this was a good place for someone who likes to shoot , cast lead and reload. Read the posting rules and placed a post this morning that had a lot of activity. Jist was we don't have to kill everything we see and don't have to view a trip to the woods as entering a war zone.


from your post this morning:

I mean I read posts where I guy thinks he is a champ for shooting a Coyote working a field at 35 yards. I ask why? Would the mice, rats, rabbits stirred up by his tractor helped any one but a hunger predator, Yep Predator, not varmint. I see a post where a guy has a mind set to kill a possum in town and needs quite load to do it. Heck if its bothering you run up and when he "plays dead" put him in a sack and move him to the woods. I garentee you aren't going to eat him. Another guy posted he doesn't go in the woods without a large rifle: and his 9mm without a 16 load clip in it. Aw heck, No Words. Another guy posted he brings a pair of 38's as back up so he don't run out if he drops his rifle.

While I tend to agree with your premise [pests excluded], The problem I see is your OP this morning was, it was more of a RANT toward us, you mention posts by fellows who shoot up any living thing. You never say where you saw these posts, it seemed to me like you insinuated the posts you read were on our site, if that were the case, it'd be proper to post links to the offending posts, or post comments in that thread.

If they were random posts from the internet... well, then you should clarify it as a rant against the general public, and NOT against the best group of boolit casters online, because your rant comes off as preaching at us and not with us sportsman.
Good Luck,
Jon

[leeggen]

Just so some that may know and for the ones that don't, most states have stricked laws preventing the trapping nad transporting of animals from one area to another. Some cities have animal control, our little town if you call the police dept. say about a stry dog they will tell you to dispatch the animal in anyway YOU can, that they have been notified. We have farm animals on our farm and stray dogs,cat,coons possums coyotes, fox and several others not named become dead just for the reason that our farm animals are our livlyhood. Most strays wind up dead by:starvation (not pretty) some turn exstremely mean and will attack people and other animals: (quite scary if it is you they are after)or they attack the farm animals and must be put down to say it nicely.(Makes me mad as h--l when I have to do that because some human thought oh somebody will take them in an give them a good home. If we took in every one of those I wood have 1000 dogs, cats, puppies rabbits coons and such living here and I would be the one starving I try not to bust anybodies chops but until you have lost a prize calf or saw a cow with one milk tit ripped of , or a dozen chicken dead in the pen from a coon or house cat or a dog you can't judge me for my decsions nor for how I feel even if I come on like a troll!
Rant over thank you and hope this gets some people to understand the otherside.
CD

[375RUGER]

The title of that thread was "guess the world has changed since I looked", but it was mostly a rant about how you are against pest control. The point of my longbow comment was that you and yours had changed too since you hunt with rifles. Wasn't intending to offend you, just make you think. There is a difference between pest control and hunting, but you made yourself to be holier than the rest of us because you made it a point to parade the fact you have a little Cherokee and you only kill for food. 30 years ago there some reservations that hardly had any big game at all to hunt because Indians just shot what they wanted for sport, by their own admission. I went to HS on the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation, HS kids brag. They certainly didn't need the food because big trucks came every month and gave them all they needed plus a lot more.
The world has changed since 1752.
Most of your rant yesterday was about you are against pest control. That is most of the killing I do throughout the year. Hunting season is short. This year alone I'd guess at least 25 varmints have been killed within 100yds of my front porch. I wouldn't be able to keep pets, livestock or have a garden if I didn't shoot the pests. Believe me, I haven't even made a dent in the population of varmints around here, I just try to keep them away from my yard.
Hope you can understand that some of us have plenty good reason for killing.

[Char-Gar]

I did not read your original post and have not cared about going back and doing so. However this post seems somewhat "strange" to me. It seems you are looking for empathy, understanding or something about how you were treated the first time around. I real it like you think you were misunderstood and want to know why?

You are in the wrong place, if you are coming here for understanding, empathy and a balm for your bruised feelings. If you take one on the jaw, take an objective look at what you said. If you still feel that it was well placed, reasonable, in line with the board and was still misunderstood, then just consider us all cretins, shrug it off and go on with life. Don't paw over the issue, for nothing positive will result.

Above all, don't whine. This is rough and tumble group of men, most of whom are strongly opinionated and somewhat cranky. We are sorely lacking in "sensitivity" around here. Deal with it!

If you are looking for sensitivity, active listening, open mindedness, non-closure thinking and that kind of stuff, go to church or some kind of "group" where that is the expected norm. You be in the wrong place ol son.

[1Shirt]

Above all agree with Blacksmith and Char-gar!
1Shirt!

[Rick Hodges]

However this post seems somewhat "strange" to me. It seems you are looking for empathy, understanding or something about how you were treated the first time around. I real it like you think you were misunderstood and want to know why?

You are in the wrong place, if you are coming here for understanding, empathy and a balm for your bruised feelings. If you take one on the jaw, take an objective look at what you said. If you still feel that it was well placed, reasonable, in line with the board and was still misunderstood, then just consider us all cretins, shrug it off and go on with life. Don't paw over the issue, for nothing positive will result.

Above all, don't whine. This is rough and tumble group of men, most of whom are strongly opinionated and somewhat cranky. We are sorely lacking in "sensitivity" around here. Deal with it!

If you are looking for sensitivity, active listening, open mindedness, non-closure thinking and that kind of stuff, go to church or some kind of "group" where that is the expected norm. You be in the wrong place ol son.

X-2 [smilie=b:

[wallenba]

Not sure what all the hubbub was about, so I read your posts until I thought I knew what was going on. Still a little fuzzy. Regarding the killing for killing sake attitudes of some hunters, I think all of us here are responsible people, and shoot to kill when it's reasonable. A little 'enhancement' comes with most hunting/fishing stories. The coyote shot from the tractor? Well, I must defer to the farmer/rancher's reasons for doing so. Only he knows how many predators his land will support before they start going to his barnyard for dinner. Coyotes do one thing well, when well fed...make more coyotes.
I've gone hunting many times without taking game, even when I could have. Mostly came down to the decision of, 'can I make that shot cleanly?'.

When I was twelve, my brother and I got a couple of low power youth type recurve bows, Shakespeare's I think. We crossed the road into the woods where a commercial forest tract of young saplings had been planted the year before. Counting off the rows and picking a particularly tall sapling as a target, we tried to see who could get the closest. When we went to collect our arrows, I found one of mine went through the back of a little ground squirrel (chipmonk). It was still alive, and was trying to run. My brother, for fun, began pushing my guilt buttons. I knew it wasn't intentional, but it gave me a sense of what members of the animal world are up against, and that death without reason is a waste. Something, I knew would dine on it though, and it was a prey animal, so even though I didn't mean to do it, it was not out of line with natures plan. This experience was always close to mind whenever I was afield.

[unclogum bill]

Wish to apologize for causing all this hub-bub. I wrote a piece as I saw it and thought I did so following guide lines. When it was shut down I asked why. Well now I know. In a private message was advised best let it go. I have. Now I have all the answers needed. Been accused of hugging Obummer, anti hunter, whining, open mindiness, and in a few , expect to had it said I pushed grandma off the porch. God bless America and lets move on.

[starmac]

That post says a lot.

[montana_charlie]

I wrote a piece as I saw it and thought I did so following guide lines.
Let me start by saying I see nothing wrong with being 'noble'. I like to think I am noble (in some ways) and most others would see themselves as acting nobly at various times and in various ways.

If you are reading a thread where somebody mentions acting in an ignoble manner, and you disagree with him, pipe up and say so. Just be willing to back up your reasoning with something fairly concrete.

But, if you start a thread (out of the blue) with the message that appears to say, I am noble and you aren't ... well, you just have to expect some grief.

CM

[mroliver77]

By the way, welcome to Cast Boolits Bill!
Jay

[alrighty]

That post says a lot.

+1
I was beginning to think that I was going to have to track down the original thread.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Wish to apologize for causing all this hub-bub. I wrote a piece as I saw it and thought I did so following guide lines. When it was shut down I asked why. Well now I know. In a private message was advised best let it go. I have. Now I have all the answers needed. Been accused of hugging Obummer, anti hunter, whining, open mindiness, and in a few , expect to had it said I pushed grandma off the porch. God bless America and lets move on.
Great post,welcome to castboolits.
If you stay on topic you won't find a better bunch of people, it is the best bullet casting site there is.

...BUT,
like Char-Gar said,

...Above all, don't whine. This is rough and tumble group of men, most of whom are strongly opinionated and somewhat cranky. We are sorely lacking in "sensitivity" around here. Deal with it!

[longranger]

I hear crickets from the OP.

[Trey45]

I hear crickets from the OP.

How many times do you want him to apologize? Stop stirring the pot.

[Pat I.]

Still learning and thanks for the reply, Not sure what troll is , can you describe such .

I've been a member here since 2005 and was a member of AR before that and from what I can gather the definition of a troll is someone who disagrees with the gurus and in crowd.

[Jailer]

I've been a member here since 2005 and was a member of AR before that and from what I can gather the definition of a troll is someone who disagrees with the gurus and in crowd.

Or better yet someone who makes a post such as yours. No need to fan the flames enough has been said on the topic already.

[Trey45]

This thread has served out its usefulness, before it degrades into yet another micturating contest I'll lock the thread. If anyone needs to continue communication with the OP I will suggest using the PM feature. Thanks for your understanding in this matter.