Best (Friendly-est) die set for the AR Platform in 5.56?

[sparkz]

who Makes the Best (Friendly-est) die set for the AR Platform in 5.56?
I read about 223 will not size down nuff and they have issues with stuck cases and cases that will not chamber at all, so what have you all had experience with not what ya hear what are you using?
we have a new Colt and need a good die set first go around at a cry-baby-price if posb.

I read some about "it's all in the Lube" sizing forums so I am up on that,
and I have seen some about use of a Boat Tail vs-PB and there cocking bad or even gettin shaved bad on set,,

so let ua know what your using and why not buy "Brand-X"

We Plan on Using J-Words for now as we have no Mold for the 5.56 as of yet so that will be next topic, haha

TIA for any Help you may be

Patrick

[nhrifle]

The majority of my .223 loading is done with a set of Lee dies and I have won quite a few matches with such ammo. Never had a case stick in either the dies or the chamber, and zero feeding issues. As long as you chamfer/debur the case mouth before seating, you won't shave a bullet. If you are truly concerned about having issues chambering ammo, get a set of RCBS small base dies, which will reduce the case to minimum dimensions. I have a set of those dies and they work well, but I have never had problems loading with standard dies.

Whatever equipment you settle on, remember not to reload your cases too many times. The brass gets worked each time and the AR15 does not do well with a case head separation. That happened to a shooter on the firing line in the station next to me. He was a competent, meticulous reloader and excellent shooter who pushed his cases a few times too many and reduced a $2500 match rifle into a pile of scrap.

[Moonie]

I use Lee dies for my sons 5.56 upper, never had an issue that was sizing die related.

[Ehaver]

If you are having case sticking problems, then I would suggest small base dies. Lee makes a set, if I remember correctly. Also, as nhrifle said, champher and debur the mouth, if you still have problems then you can order flairing tool to expand the mouth more than the standard die. http://leeprecision.com/delux-rifle-3-di-223-rem.html , http://leeprecision.com/custom-flaring-tool-for-lee-loader.html, http://leeprecision.com/custom-oversized-mandrel.html

http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-Deluxe-3-Die-Rifle/dp/B000N8OKK0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1377879390&sr=8-2&keywords=.223+dies

http://www.amazon.com/RCBS-Small-Base-Die-223/dp/B000N8LIOQ/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1377879390&sr=8-8&keywords=.223+dies

hope that helps.


I would go with a full length resizer and a neck sizer. Full lenght for new-to-you once fires, and neck only for your once fired.

[Larry Gibson]

Standard RCBS X-die set will do nicely. No need for the "small base" or "AR" X-dies for milspec 5.56 chamber. With the X-die you will get excellent case life and will not have to trim the cases either.

Larry Gibson

[wallenba]

Yep, what the others say. And it does sound like you need the small base sizing die. What I can add is that I've grown fond of using my Wilson chamber seating die set for the tiny bullet. I don't fumble them or drop them on the floor with it. They are a bit pricey, and you'll need an arbor press, but the cat's meow.

[USAFrox]

I use a regular RCBS full length die set and so far haven't had problems, but an X-die set is on my wish list. I hate trimming cases.

[mikeym1a]

Standard RCBS X-die set will do nicely. No need for the "small base" or "AR" X-dies for milspec 5.56 chamber. With the X-die you will get excellent case life and will not have to trim the cases either.

Larry Gibson
Would annealing the cases periodically help extend case life? I have read that auto-rifle cases get worked more than other actions types, and work-hardening happens. ????

[USAFrox]

Would annealing the cases periodically help extend case life? I have read that auto-rifle cases get worked more than other actions types, and work-hardening happens. ????

Yes, annealing case necks does help counteract the work-hardening effects of constant resizing. However, you must take care when annealing not to go too low and weaken the web of the case. Also, annealing the case necks does nothing to prevent case head separation. One other thing you can do is get a carbide sizing button (hornady sells replacement carbide buttons that fit RCBS dies, and replace their stock steel ones) which stretch the case less as they resize, because they are "slicker" and don't need to be lubed.

[mikeym1a]

I'm in the midst of trying to get an AR build started, so I've paid attention to this. I had not considered the carbide sizer, but it makes perfect sense. I have some carbide pistol dies, and it polishes the cases when it re-sizes them. Thanks for the info. For annealing, I would put them in a pan of water, and knock them over when properly heated. That would protect the web. As for head separation, a stainless steel wire with a small crook in the end, run down the inside, should detect that developing. That isn't as great a consideration in a bolt rifle, but we are talking an auto rifle in this instance. Thanks!

[sundog]

I use a regular RCBS full length die set and so far haven't had problems, but an X-die set is on my wish list. I hate trimming cases.

Yep, me too - really dislike case trimming. By the end of high power season next year, I will have worked my way through a 2K+ lot new LC 11 cases. I plan on using X die only on this batch. Mrs. Sundog bought me a RCBS power trimmer for my birfday (lucky me!). They'll get the obligatory one time trim. This old [sun]dog is looking forward to learning new tricks.

[USAFrox]

Have you looked into the various automated annealing machines? There's expensive ones that you can buy already made, or if you are slightly mechanically apt, you can build your own. I plan to build my own sometime in the (hopefully) near future. Soo many projects, so little time...

There are a couple of threads on this forum about annealing machines, and such. And if you do a google search for "homemade annealing machine" you'll find a bunch of stuff, as well.

I mention this, because when I tried to envision how you would go about annealing things standing in a pan of water, it seemed like a difficult process, and time consuming. Maybe I just don't have a good enough imagination, though...

[ElDorado]

I’ve been loading for the AR since 1981, and I have never had a problem using standard RCBS 223 dies. I’ve been using standard Lee dies for the last 10 years or so, again with absolutely no sticking problems. In fact, I can’t remember ever talking to anybody who has had that problem. Ask around and see if you can find someone who has personally had a 223 die that wouldn’t size down enough.
I recommend getting a standard set of Lee dies. They’re inexpensive and less likely to break a decapping pin on a crimped primer than the RCBS dies. I use an RCBS lube pad with RCBS lube when sizing, that’s my recommendation for lube.

[USAFrox]

I use an RCBS lube pad with RCBS lube when sizing, that’s my recommendation for lube.

I haven't been loading for anywhere nearly as long as you, but I just couldn't get the RCBS case lube pad and lube to work for me. I obviously must have been putting too much on, but I ended up pushing hydraulic dents into the shoulders of my cases and I ruined about 40 cases. Since then, I've used Hornady Unique sizing wax, and it works like a charm. I've never stuck a case using either lube, but the Unique wax is just incredibly easy, as well. I simply swipe my finger in the wax, then twist the case body (not the shoulders or neck) inbetween my waxed fingers before sizing. That's all it takes. One swipe in the wax will do several cases, and when my finger starts to feel like the wax is getting low, I just swipe it again in the wax. Never puts hydraulic dents in the cases, either.

Again, I freely admit that me ruining my cases using the RCBS case lube was because of my own inexperience using it, but instead of continuing to ruin cases while trying to learn how to do it right, I just went to the Unique wax, which is so much easier, with no learning curve.

Your mileage may vary.

[Larry Gibson]

Would annealing the cases periodically help extend case life? I have read that auto-rifle cases get worked more than other actions types, and work-hardening happens. ????

It might but after 20+ firings in an AR the case has pretty much given its "all" in my opinion.

Larry Gibson

[ElDorado]

Usafox-

You're right, I had dented cases at first, but I guess I've figured out how to use it. That was so long ago that I forgot about it.

When I started reloading, there weren't as many shopping choices as there are today, and the LGS only sold RCBS equipment, so that's how I started using their lube. I tried Imperial after hearing so many glowing recommendations on the web, but I found its lubrication properties to be inferior to RCBS. I think lanolin has some potential, but I haven't done enough experimentation to verify.

Truthfully, I've never heard of Unique, but if it works for you, it works for me.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i use a Redding set

[nhrifle]

It's probably a known fact to many people, but it was something I had to be told by one of my reloading mentors some years ago. Dents in the shoulder when sizing are caused by lube not being able to escape under pressure. Simple enough to fix -- just don't lube the shoulder. No harm is caused by doing this and the neck and shoulder are left without deformation. After the many, many thousands of rounds I have loaded this way, I can say it works and does not harm either the brass or dies. I would not hesitate to use a little graphite on the inside of the case neck to make sizing easier though.

[ElDorado]

By the way, those lube-dented cases are usually OK to shoot. The dents will pop out and you can try again next time.

[gmsharps]

Something to consider is getting a stuck case remover. It a fine dance to either get to much lube and get dents in the shoulder and not enough lube and rip the rim off the case and then have a stuck case. Easy enough to remove with the stuck case remover but it really ticks you off if you have to stop loading if you do not have one. The Dillon carbide sizer is nice but you still have to slightly lube the cases but it gives you more latitude on getting stuck cases.
gmsharps

[Doc Highwall]

I will agree with Larry about the RCBS X die, or a Redding bushing die which is what I use.

[BD]

I really like the idea of the X die. However, unless I acquire anther AR in .223 I won't be buying one anytime soon. My Bushy DCM came with a chamber so close to minimum spec that my new Redding bushing size die wouldn't touch the shoulder. I called Redding and they asked me to send back the dies with five once fired new brass from my chamber. A couple of weeks later I received the custom fitted dies in the mail and I've been a happy camper ever since. i flat topped that rifle for optics about the time I went to tri-focals at age 55 and after 4,000 rounds down the tube it will still stay under 1/2 moa all day long out to 300 yards with the 77 grain SMKs from a good rest. I'm using a max charge of Varget in that load, and 10 -11 loadings, (annealing every 4-5 loadings), is about my comfort level these days. I had about 1,000 BHM cases that AnthonyB had sent me years ago that I used a little harder for high-power. Those cases eventually died from split necks. Never experienced a case head separation, and it doesn't sound like fun. Luckily brass for that chambering is plenty common, so there's no reason to push it to extremes.
BD

[troyboy]

I use Lee dies, lube with Lee lube mixed with rubbing alcohol. Put the lube in a spray bottle, the brass in a gallon zip lock, spray a little in the bag and mix. Pour brass out and let dry a few minutes resize and de cap. Works exactly as designed.

[grampa243]

i like the dillon 223 dies. i use a 550b so that may have something to do with it.. but i know they make them to work in the AR better then some others.. and the crimp die works very well.. for cast boolits i add a lee universal expander in stage 1 and size all my brass beforehand. for jwords i set up as per dillons norm.

[MT Chambers]

I use Redding "Deluxe die sets" which include both full length and neck sizers whenever I can, they are the best dies. If you want to tailor your loads more then the Redding bushing dies are grand and will allow you to play with case neck tension with precision....I depends on whether you just want to reload, or you want to craft your ammo with precision.

[sparkz]

Well as I had said, we have yet to load a case for this AR or any AR for that matter, But It's a new gun for us and I do want to load for it and posted the "Talk" I had read about so that's where i got all that case prob issues stuff, (I don't need more headaches haha) so that's why I ask, (Questions are cheaper then mistakes) so As I read the reply's to this post it looks like I was on right track with RCBS I like there dies and I also have a brand new and needs a home Hornady Carbide de-primeing / size pin here (Provided it will work) so Now I am thinking Il look at the RCBS X-Die loaded with that hornady pin set for a custom die set that will head off most issues, I just dont want to have to buy a new die "IF" we had issues like the ones I had read about,

Thanks guys for heads up and keep ideas coming,
Il Start a new thread for what mold to buy and why for the 5.56 AR Platform,,


THanks again

Sean & Patrick
Lost Creek, Kentucky

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

sparkz,

Something for you to think about:

I reload.223/5.56 on my progressive. I own an RCBS Pro 2000. I do it in two passes.

In the first pass, I lubricate and deprime using an RCBS lube die for .223 with RCBS. (I squirt the lube directly on the felt lube ring in the die and it works fantastic without putting out too much lube or putting it in the wrong place. Doesn't use much lube either out of the bottle. I've done over 5000 .223 cases this way.). After lubing the case, I use a Dillon trim die to resize and a Dillon 1200 trimmer to trim the die to length. I use a small shop vacuum to keep the brass chips cleaned up. Again, works fantastic and is very fast. I then take the brass and tumble it to clean the lube and any leftover brass chips out of the brass.

In the second pass, I prime on press and depending on the powder used for the load/bullet used, select one of the following powder measures: a Dillon powder measure, a Hornady LnL powder measure, an RCBS Uniflow powder measure or a Lee Pro Auto Disk. In all cases, I use a case activated powder drop on the press to automate the powder drop. After powder, I seat the bullet using a Redding micrometer seating die. If I had it to do over, I would use a Forster micrometer seating die.

This combination has proved to be fast, efficient and load very accurate ammo.