AR w/Wylde chamber - educate me please

[brotherdarrell]

I am eye-balling a Rock River w/ 24" 1:12 barrel that has a .223 Wylde chamber. I have searched, looked at drawings and am getting a head-ache trying to come to a conclusion.

What I am trying to figure out is the applicability of the Wylde chamber and cast boolits. Not just the Nato mold but others as well.

A "thank you" in advance for all contributions.

Darrell

[brotherdarrell]

While I appreciate the information it really is not related to my question. With a 1:12 twist I will not be shooting many 70-80 grain bullets.

To be a little more specific Rock River states that the Wylde chamber has a shorter throat than a Nato chamber, yet reamer drawings I have seen show it to actually have a longer throat. I have sent the question to Rock River but was hoping someone here had first hand knowledge/experience.

Thanks

Darrell

[BK7saum]

A little information I found when looking at various 223/5.56 chamberings.

80540

[brotherdarrell]

A little information I found when looking at various 223/5.56 chamberings.

80540

Yup, and that appears to contradict Rock River saying it has a shorter throat than the 5.56.

[BK7saum]

I was always told that the Wylde chamber with a compromise on throat length between the 556 and 223. That information would coincide with what Rock River is sayIng.

But based on the information of the above reamer print that I found, the Wylde chamber has a longer throat then the 556

[BK7saum]

I was always told that the Wylde chamber with a compromise on throat length between the 556 and 223. That information would coincide with what Rock River is sayIng.

But based on the information of the above reamer print that I found, the Wylde chamber has a longer throat then the 556

[grampa243]

i have a rock river.. with the Wylde chamber

the throat angle is the big change.. longer and not as steep. i've always thought of it a match grade chamber..

the best part is you can shoot 5.56 and .223 and get MOA grouping..

but i'm just starting to work up cast loads in it..

[Larry Gibson]

Might read what Mr Wilde says; the throat is "tighter" at .224.....not longer or shorter than a standard 5.56 throat.

That 24" long barrel with 12" twist should be excellent with cast bullets upwards of 65 -70 gr depending on design. I would expect excellect accuray upwards of 2200 fps with 100% functional reliability.

Larry Gibson

[brotherdarrell]

Might read what Mr Wilde says; the throat is "tighter" at .224.....not longer or shorter than a standard 5.56 throat.

Larry Gibson

That is the snag. What Rock River says is a shorter throat, which doesn't match with drawing.

[mikeym1a]

I'm not an expert in any of this, but, it seems to me, based on Mr. Wilde's comments, that his chamber has a tighter throat than standard. I have yet to read the comparison. If it is tighter, holding to .224 as he states, it would hold the bullet steady, and level when it finally entered the rifling, resulting in better accuracy. My impression is that military chamberings are 'generous' to make up for field dirt, variations in maufacturing, etc. This tighter throat would also benefit the cast boolit shooter, helping to seal the bore against gas cutting, and, again, keeping the boolit more level when it enters the rifling. So, It would seem to be a beneficial, and desirable thing. Just my impressions. :D

[USAFrox]

Might read what Mr Wilde says; the throat is "tighter" at .224.....not longer or shorter than a standard 5.56 throat.

That 24" long barrel with 12" twist should be excellent with cast bullets upwards of 65 -70 gr depending on design. I would expect excellect accuray upwards of 2200 fps with 100% functional reliability.

Larry Gibson

In my research (since I have a 1-12" barrel also), I found that 55gr bullets are what a 1-12" barrel needs. In fact, on the boxes of speer bullets that I have (which are 69 grains), it says for barrels of 1-9" or faster. I've shot 60 gr bullets with good accuracy in mine, but heavier than that, and they start opening up. For the heavier bullets, you really need a faster twist than 1-12".

YMMV.

[Larry Gibson]

There is a whole lot of misinformation on 223 vs 5.56 chamber specs. If it is chambered to Wilde cham er specs you have your answer. If the "it's shorter" comes from a sales staff or advertising sheet then its accuracy is suspect. If Rock River says it's a Wilde chamber that's what I'd go with.

Larry Gibson

[grampa243]

In my research (since I have a 1-12" barrel also), I found that 55gr bullets are what a 1-12" barrel needs. In fact, on the boxes of speer bullets that I have (which are 69 grains), it says for barrels of 1-9" or faster. I've shot 60 gr bullets with good accuracy in mine, but heavier than that, and they start opening up. For the heavier bullets, you really need a faster twist than 1-12".

YMMV.

ok for one thing it's the length for the bullet not the weight the needs different twist rates.

cast bullet of the same weight are shorter then Jacketed of that weight.

so what it says on your speer box will not be as true for a cast boolit of the same.

[grampa243]

back to the OP the wylde chamber is a very good option for anyone shooting .223/5.56 i would even use it in a bolt action.

[brotherdarrell]

I stumbled across this article. I would just point out the pic of the same bullet in three different chambers. Would this be a conundrum?

http://www.zediker.com/articles/AR_chambers.pdf

And for informational purposes I would add that my Rem 788 chambered in .222 Rem will put 5 NOE 70 grainers into an inch and a half group @ 100 yds. with just 15 grains 4895. And the boolit holes are nice and round. This out of a barrel that is 1:14"

Darrell

[Longone]

Lead Angle 80SMK OAL Comments

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5.56
Target .0566 1 deg,
13 min 2.465 This was designed by a C. Hildebrandt at Savage. I believe it is used in the savage .223 rifles. I do not have this reamer, but it should work well for HP.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.223
JGS#514 .025 3 deg,
10 min 2.435 I believe this is used by Krieger and Mike Bykowski. I use it for slow twist varmint uppers but I think it is a little short, and too steep of a lead for HP.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.223
Wylde .0619 1 deg,
15 min 2.475 Designed by Bill Wylde. Shoots everything good, and has slightly generous body dimensions for reliability. Eats anything you put in it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.223
Holliger .106 1 deg,
15 min 2.530 Designed for the 90 JLK. The longer throat allows a little more velocity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5.56
CLE .025 1 deg,
30 min 2.450 Of course we all know Frank's rifles shoot just fine!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5.56
Bushmaster .0250 1 deg,
30 min 2.450-
2.475 Info from Bushmaster (thanks!). These are one of the best out-of-the box barrels, and handle up to 80 gr bullets no problemo.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I plucked this from the NJ Hi-power forum, as you can see the Wylde chamber has a long OAL w/ 80 gr Sierra. What I am curious about is can you touch the lands with cast with this chamber?

Longone

[btroj]

With what bullet? If it is a long bodies bullet then possibly. It isn't just a matter of body length it is a matter of how fat the bullet is and where.

Much also depends upon how much shooting the barrel has seen. That throat moves forward with round count.

[brotherdarrell]

I got a reply from Rock River today, from a B.J. Blick, repair/tech support. His response was:

"The leads are closer on the Wylde chamber compared to the 5.56 chamber."

I would 'think' he would know but I will know for sure by wednesday evening as that is when I will have one in my possession.

Darrell

[Larry Gibson]

So there ya go......should do very well with cast bullets of 45 - 60+ gr depending on nose design.

Larry Gibson

[brotherdarrell]

Well, I can state with certainty that the throat in the Wylde chamber from Rock River is shorter than the throat in the nato chamber in the Bushmaster I had. With the nato boolit seated to approx. 2.320" oal and sized @ .226" the boollit would touch the throat but not the rifling in the BM. The same boolit sized .224" and seated to 2.282" had the rifling touching the nose in the Rock River.

Both the 70 gr. rn and 55 gr. mx3 from NOE seated to 2.25" showed engraving on the nose. The NOE copy of the saeco #221 seated to 2.20" showed engraving on the nose. These were all sized @ .224".

Did I mention that the throat is tight? I am thinking .2245" would be about as large as could be chambered without scraping lead.

81507

So far it appears to check out pretty good. The upper and lower are tight and the trigger is really good. The first stage is light and smooth and the second is very crisp around 3# if I had to guess. Once I start pulling the trigger I will know for sure. It should be fun.

Darrell

[grampa243]

well i have not yet shot for group yet, but i did a function test in my AR ran loads from 13-17 grains with IMR4198. using "ben's red" and aluminum checks. seated overall length 2.197
boolit sized to .2255

13 kicked out the shell but did not feed the next round. 14 - 17 all feed the next round and bolt went fully back after the last round.

all were stable in the 1in8 twist. no high pressure signs. gun has mid-length gas tube and Wylde chamber.

i loaded 10 more up with 14.4 grains of IMR4198 and shot a full mag. in a 3-gun practice from 50-100 yards they seam to shoot on par with my normal shooting.. and feed fine. no leading noted.

next batch will be for grouping.

this is with a Rock River Arms Predator Pursuit Mid-Length model AR1545X

i size to .22559 (i did find that if i don't seat to this OAL the boolit gets pushed back when chambered.)

the Quote is from this thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?205195-loading-HM²-223-AR-mold-225-62-1