45/90 humming. Now what?

[Nardoo]

After a lot of trying I have the Sharpes shooting like a varmint rifle. The trouble is it is a duplex load, so now I have to replicate that in black.

The load uses 5 gns of Bench Mark 1 and 74 gns of Wano PPg with 0.25" compression under the 485 gn Saeco 748 in 25:1. Lube is lanlolin based home made and velocity is 1370 fps.

This 100 metre group is 10 shots and apart from the flier measures around 5/8". With all ten shots it is 2" which is fine with me. I had to puff 6 times through the blow tube as the ambient temperature was in the 90's this morning and humidity at around 10%.

I was certainly helped by the new MVA Soule (thanks Arnie) and the secret lube recipe given to by a me by a generous club member. Fouling was minimal but I still needed the blow tube.

Now what do I do to get the same performance using black alone? The gun likes 0.25" compression but is that what drives accuracy or is it velocity, or even pressure?

The cartridge in the pic is a 22/250 of my sons. He put it there as he gets sub 1/2" groups with it in his varmint gun and in his eyes the Sharpes has now qualified.

Help needed.

Nardoo

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p317/nardoo/100_2462.jpg

[kodiak1]

Nardoo you have a good bench to start with. Have you tried any straight black powder's yet?
Use your 1/4" of compression and all other componants the same except all black and see what you get. You will have to work from there but at least you know that your piece likes the bullet you have and how hard it is.
Good Luck Ken.

[montana_charlie]

Now what do I do to get the same performance using black alone? The gun likes 0.25" compression but is that what drives accuracy or is it velocity, or even pressure?
I once had a guy offer to sell me a case of Wano. I declined, but was surprised that a mention of bat poop would come up in a conversation about black powder shooting. It was later that I discovered my error.

So, I (now) know that Wano (not guano) is available...but have never used it. Therefore I can only make some suppositions about it...guesses stemming from how Goex reacts to various conditions.

Concerning the condition of 'compression'...it achieves two things.
First, it allows enough powder to be stuffed under a given bullet to make it perform well.
Whether that performance is improved by velocity, induced barrel vibration, sufficient bullet oduration, or other factors...I can't exactly say. It's probably a combination of several of these.

Secondly, at least in the case of Goex, a well-compressed charge burns more cleanly than a 'less dense' one...leaving less fouling to manage. However, bullet weight may be partially responsible for this, as the length of the projectile requires more compression...just to get enough powder behind it to achieve liftoff. The inertia of the heavy weight may help the powder to burn cleanly, much like a heavy crimp does when very light bullets are used.

A 'clean burn' is the main advertised attribute of the duplex load. So you may need to increase compression simply to keep the fouling in about the same range as you have had it with duplex. That requires more powder...which you will probably need, anyway...if you hope to keep that 1370 fps muzzle velocity.

Did I say anything you didn't already know?
CM

[martinibelgian]

Ah well - here a target shot with my Martini in #2 Musket:
540gr bullet, Lanolin, paraffin wax
89grs of Swiss no.4
CCI br2 primers
Holbrook Dr.Goodwin sight

http://users.pandora.be/Gert.Claes1/2007-8-02-test%20LR%20load.jpg

Another detail - this one was shot prone, unsupported, with sling only - also 10 shots. So yes, it can be done...

[freedom475]

Nice group Nardoo!
A great book on the subject is Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West by Mike Venturino.

Had a 45-120 that shot great with a duplex load of 8gr. Unique under goexffg. Groups opened up to 8"or more at 100 if I droped the Unique. Tried everything without much success until I changed to a softer boolit alloy, Bam that was it 1"groups without cleaning between shots. I think you need to find the load that your gun likes best, I don"t think that it can be narrowed down to just velocity,compression, or pressure.

[montana_charlie]

Everytime I feel the urge to go read something by Mike Venturino, I remember his 'tag line' on one of these forums.

It's reasonable to expect a gun writer to own a selection of rifles, but often an 'average Joe' will limit himself (for financial or personal preference reasons) to a single rifle which best meets his requirements. Being that man's only rifle, (it seems to me) it should be assumed he is intimately familiar with it.

Venturino's cautionary advice, "Beware the man with one rifle. He may not have enough interest in it to be competent!" sounds so pompous I just can't get interested in anything else he might have to say.

Please pardon my short rant. It's been in the back of my mind for a long time...
CM

[Boz330]

I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think that you will find that sort of group a little more elusive with straight black. I went through that whole thing a long time ago. The duplex really helps the clean burning and leaves a lot less fowling. I'm still searching for the ultimate load, but that is part of the fun. My 40-65 would group less than 12 inches @ 600yd with the duplex load for 10 shots, no blow tubing. I have come close to that result with straight black, but then the next time out with the same load not so good. BP can be a real challenge and one group isn't necessarily THE LOAD. If you are going for long range loads, 200yd is a minimum for testing them. I personally use 300yd to test loads. The search is half the fun though.

Gert what distance was that group?

Bob

[Black Prince]

It's okay Charlie. His self-proclaimed tag line of quote: " World renowned writer" shows his humility and self-efacement and helps me to understand his attitude regarding those of us who can only afford one half decent rifalgun. When you stand beside Hemingway, Faulkner, and Ruark, man you are in tall cotton!!

If it were not for that humility ah hiz, I'd ah jiss thought he was a pompas blow hard.

[freedom475]

Author opinions aside the book does contain a lot of useful, seemingly well researched, and fun to read info. Including some history and data from a trip to Yuma Proving Grounds with Sharps rifles.

[Nardoo]

Gentlemen, I thank you sincerely for the advice and kind words. I guess I was just showing off posting that pic but you must understand the satisfaction gained when the code is finally cracked just seems to burst out.

I obtain an enormous amount of enjoyment reading the posts on BP singleshots and trying to interpret the little pearls of wisdom from the masters. To participate and be a part of this forum is almost as good as the shooting itself. Thanks again for your indulgence and kindness.

Did I mention that my Saeco 748's drop out of the mould with a consistant +/- 0.5 grains? :)

Nardoo

[WBH]

Mike is a pretty decent guy. Opinionated at times...............but aren't we all.
CM, I also "read" the Shiloh forums of which MLV "voices" his thoughts.
I think you need to give hime some leeway here, and just appreciate his sense of humor ( though kinda dry sometimes)

[martinibelgian]

I don't want to rain on your parade, but I think that you will find that sort of group a little more elusive with straight black. I went through that whole thing a long time ago. The duplex really helps the clean burning and leaves a lot less fowling. I'm still searching for the ultimate load, but that is part of the fun. My 40-65 would group less than 12 inches @ 600yd with the duplex load for 10 shots, no blow tubing. I have come close to that result with straight black, but then the next time out with the same load not so good. BP can be a real challenge and one group isn't necessarily THE LOAD. If you are going for long range loads, 200yd is a minimum for testing them. I personally use 300yd to test loads. The search is half the fun though.

Gert what distance was that group?

Bob

Bob,

that one was at 78 meters - would be 80-something yards.

[joeb33050]

Everytime I feel the urge to go read something by Mike Venturino, I remember his 'tag line' on one of these forums.

It's reasonable to expect a gun writer to own a selection of rifles, but often an 'average Joe' will limit himself (for financial or personal preference reasons) to a single rifle which best meets his requirements. Being that man's only rifle, (it seems to me) it should be assumed he is intimately familiar with it.

Venturino's cautionary advice, "Beware the man with one rifle. He may not have enough interest in it to be competent!" sounds so pompous I just can't get interested in anything else he might have to say.

Please pardon my short rant. It's been in the back of my mind for a long time...
CM

I don't know Mike V. or what he said or if he said the above. I do know that before M.V. probably got out of high school, "Beware of the man with one rifle" was said about the one-gunner, and meant that he was most likely a very good shot. Since only one, his shooting was with it and not them. My offhand failure was due to using too many different rifles. And if you believe that, ....
joe brennan