what load for primed 22 lr cases?

[preparehandbook]

I am going to be spending some time at the family homestead this winter. Among the projects on our schedule is loading up some .22 lr for plinking.

A relative has a small stash of new, primed .22 lr cases (eley I think)

previously he had filled the cases with blackpowder and hand seated a single buckshot (#F if I recall) that were about 29 grains

As well he has some cast lead slugs that are a 40ish grains and have the proper heel etc. that he has loaded over black powder before. He has a doo-dad he made for crimping the loaded shell.

What we would like to do is work up a smokeless powder load but I don't even know where to start. I was kind of leaning towards researching .25 auto loads, but I don't know if this is really applicable.

What powder works in such small cases?

What's a good starting load?

[mikeym1a]

The .22 was originally a BP cartridge, long,long ago. Remember that the .22RF has a 'heel' boolit. The driving band of the boolit is the same size as the case, so the heel of the boolit has to be a reduced size to fit in the case. I have no Idea what powder they use in .22's. Unique is around #32 on the Burn Rate Chart. Green Dot is #19. Bullseye is #13, and Red Dot is #8. Don't know the capacity of the cases. Have no idea of the factory load. You would be safe using BP. If you use any of these smokeless powders with your primed cases, try them with the gun that you place little value on, tied to a table, and a loonnngggg string tied to the trigger. If the rifle survives, then you might have found a usable load. I would proceed with utmost caution..........

[nagantguy]

Use caution and good luck, please keep is posted this sounds fascinating. Remember to record each step in a notebook, success and failure as this will be critical for further research and development.

[220]

I've only ever loaded 22lr with BP using a 44gr Lyman 225438, seating the reduced shank for the GC into the case and running the whole thing into a .225 size die to crimp.
Loaded like this the OAL means they need to be single loaded into the gun and if you try to eject one without firing you will leave the projectile in the barrel jambed well into the rifling.

[preparehandbook]

The 40ish grain bullets he casts (they could be 38 or 39 grains) when crimped in are within normal OAL for 22 lr.

We are kinda hoping to come up with something that can operate a semi auto, even if we have to mod the gun a bit (lighten the bolt, change springs) as we have a couple of marlin 60's farm guns that we use for plinking. We have been talking for a year or so about modding the pair to function with lower power loads (we have a bunch of old target/gallery loads that are basically 22 long spec [29 grain bullet travelling 1,000 fps] )

For all I know the old marlins may function fine with the lighter loads, and they may work fine with black powder. I neglected to try these combinations.

I am dying to get some black powder loads through the chronograph. Our grandpa swore by the old BP .22 lr loads.

[castaroo]

hi , back in the 80 s we used win 296 in 22win mag cases , 4gr I think behind a 45 gr j word , shot well out my 782 back then ,Roo

[John Boy]

You would be safe using BP. Agree - 4.5gr of Swiss Null B. Velocity with a 42gr bullet averages 1080 fps. No Swiss Null B? Use FFFFg powder of any brand
Personally, if I was to play loading the cases with smokeless, I wouldn't do it unless I shot the test rounds through a chronograph to equal store bought smokeless rounds.

So with a 'small stash of primed empties' - your work up reloads are going to eat up your 'stash'

[preparehandbook]

What we consider a "small stash" should keep us busy for weeks.

Plus we are going to dig out grandpa's equipment for repriming and reloading .22 lr, With current prices and availability it's worth the time to reload .22 lr

[captain-03]

Going to watch this thread closely ... I have around 10K primed cases and 40 gr boolits sitting here .... needing load data and method of seating/crimping ....

[cpileri]

Could you use the 35% rule w H-4198: that is if 4.5gr Blackpowder is the full load, then 1.575gr of H-4198 would be the smokeless load?
Don't try it unless you know!
i am just thinking out loud and using what i use in BP cartridge loads.
C-

[John Boy]

needing load data and method of seating/crimping

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?132172-22LR-Black-Powder-Reloads-How-to-Make-Them&highlight=Null

[country gent]

I would start checking case volumne of fired cases. Wieght a 22 case fill with water to mouth and weigh again. Do the same with a 25 acp (closest case in size I can think of). This will allow you to figure the diffrence in capacity. Use a percentage number, IE .22 is XX% of 25acp case capcity. Mulltiply the 25 acps starting load by this number to get an rough Idea of charge weight. Reduce this by 10% and work up. In a case as small as the 22 rimfire .1 grn increments will be alot. In european countries it is common to load 22s maybe a forum based in england, germany, would get the required information.

[preparehandbook]

I think we're going to make a batch of the crimpers. We have two types and I want to see which works better.

[preparehandbook]

After some research it appears somewhere between 1.7 and 2.0 grains of bullseye is a workable load that should approximate factory loads.

The real trick is that most scales have a .1 grain margin of error and the difference between a nice load and an over-pressure load is apparently around .2

[felix]

Take a loaded 22lr apart and measure the powder. If fine grain, use the same in 4756. If flake, use the same in Herco. ... felix

[country gent]

Gem pro 250 Scales reads to and has .02 grn resolution and is around $130.00. I just purchased one it a nice unit

[1066]

After some research it appears somewhere between 1.7 and 2.0 grains of bullseye is a workable load that should approximate factory loads.

The real trick is that most scales have a .1 grain margin of error and the difference between a nice load and an over-pressure load is apparently around .2

That's interesting - I've just been pulling and weighing a few .22's and that seems about right. Standard sub-sonic loads have been around the 1.6 mark and several different types have fine flake powder very much like Bullseye. CCI Stingers, shooting the lighter 30 grain bullet have about 2.6gns of a different powder. Many years ago my competition load for .32 S&W Long was 1.6 gns of Bullseye pushing a 90 grn full wadcutter at around 900 fps.

[Finarfin]

Maybe triple seven.

[CanoeRoller]

Why not load with BP? Experiments show that BP loaded 22 lr's are wicked accurate.

[preparehandbook]

we will definitely be loading some with BP (4.5 -5.0 grains FFFFG [sifted FFFG] ). We are looking forward to seeing if we can get BP loads to cycle an autoloader too.

One of our goals is to come up with a good smokeless load both for running through autoloaders and for our .22lr reloading in general.

since I intend to be reloading a lot of .22lr this year I want to do both smokeless and BP.

[knobster]

Bringing this old thread back to life as the cost of 22lr has only gone up. Any updates?

Is there a shellholder out there that will hold the 22lr case?

edit: Nevermind, I followed the castboolits link from the first page. Now I just need to see if the CH4D shellholder is still available.

[w30wcf]

I have loaded the vast majority of my .22 primed cases with 4.5 grs of Swiss Null B but a couple of years ago decided to try some smokeless. Philip Sharpe in his book "Complete Guide To Handloading" (1937) mentioned that DuPont SR80 (Sporting Rifle) had been used to load .22 L.R. cartridges. Based on some other information I had gleaned, I loaded 2.5 grs. of SR 80 under the 40 gr cast bullet. They shot well and produced velocities about the same as the b.p. round (1,100 f.p.s.)

SR80 has approx the same burning rate as Blue Dot and HS7 but I have not yet tried an equal amount of those powders. The CCI Velocitor is loaded with 2.2 grs. of a fine disc powder of unknown burning rate which pushes the 40 gr. bullet to over 1,400 f.p.s. 2.5 grs of either of above powders would certainly be safe but may not give the best accuracy results.

A Federal Hi Velocity .22 L.R. cartridge was loaded with 1.5 grs of a powder that looks like Titegroup BUT is probably not! As time and the weather permits, I will try some smokeless powder loads and report back.......

Note: SR80 was discontinued in 1939.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

I loaded some .22 RF cases today with smokeless powder. The loads were:
Titegroup powder / 40 gr cast bullet
1.0 grs. - 0849 f.p.s. average
1.3 grs. - 1081 f.p.s. average
1.5 grs. - 1260 f.p.s. average

with a 30 gr. swaged bullet (North American Arms)
1.5 grs. - 1439 f.p.s. average
I will have to try 1.3 grs. with the 30 gr. bullet

I did not test for group since it was cold and windy. Will be testing for accuracy when the weather cooperates.....

w30wcf

[Blacksmith]

Primed .22 cases are available again (cross posted in .22 LR Black Powder reloads):
https://fedarm.com/product-category/ammunition/22-lr/

[Kev18]

I have had .22 rounds crack down the case because they were so old and in bad condition. I shot them in a semi-auto.
Pro tip: Dont hold anywhere near the mag well. Thats what I did and my hand ate some blow back gas and small shrapnel. I kept shooting but I should of worn gloves.
Be careful testing loads:)

[uscra112]

Take a loaded 22lr apart and measure the powder. If fine grain, use the same in 4756. If flake, use the same in Herco. ... felix

I think Felix has it correct here. Vihtavuori lists their 3N37 as being fomulated for .22 Rimfire, and I find that Herco is the nearest equivalent amongst American powder makers.

About 1.5 to 1.8 grains looks right in my Quickload model.

(I don't load .22 rimfire cases, but I did a detailed study to find the bolt thrust of .22s, to evaluate the safety of certain antique boys' rifles.)

[Wally44]

How r you guys making out with your 22 loads

[LynC2]

An interesting project, but personally I'd rather be shooting than loading them unless I started shooting .22 BP silhouette. However I hope you enjoy your journey and be safe. ☺

[scholar]

I loaded some .22 RF cases today with smokeless powder. The loads were:
Titegroup powder / 40 gr cast bullet
1.0 grs. - 0849 f.p.s. average
1.3 grs. - 1081 f.p.s. average
1.5 grs. - 1260 f.p.s. average

with a 30 gr. swaged bullet (North American Arms)
1.5 grs. - 1439 f.p.s. average
I will have to try 1.3 grs. with the 30 gr. bullet

I did not test for group since it was cold and windy. Will be testing for accuracy when the weather cooperates.....

w30wcf

Has anyone confirmed this or can anyone point me in the direction of more reloading data for 22LR. I just picked up a 22lr reloading kit from 22lrreloader.com, but the only load data is has is for BP and BP substitutes (and surprisingly, match-heads, like I'm that hard up). I'm looking to go smokeless, and there just isn't that much data out there. This is quite old, and I would have thought there'd be more available.

[John Boy]

Scholar, and I view your alias loosely, I will confirm the data prepared by one of the most dedicated reloaders and knowledgeable historian who has since died. He is John Kort, my long time close friend and shooting buddy who between him and me, plus a couple of others, started reloading 22LR primed empty cases in the US. We started because of it’s historical value with
a David Mos custom mold of the UMC Target Bullet that we took dimensions and the Lyman 224253 bullet and we cobbled together the reloading process
John experimented with Titegroup and I have stayed with 2.1gr of Bullseye at 1532 FPS and 4.5 grs of Swiss Null-B at 1230 FPS using the 45gr UMC bullet. I also reloaded the Old West bullet but never chronographed the rounds using my data loads

So I would like to see your detail post what you used and chronograph results

[John Boy]

Knobster, look on the Old West bullet website, they have everything you want and need, including shell holder ... https://oldwestbulletmoulds.com/shop/ols/products

[Goofy]

Don't know this information is of use, but I've been shooting a CF version of the .22 LR for 2-3 years and will pass along some of the load/velocity info below. Most were fired with small pistol primers, both WW and CCI.

.9 gr Red Dot Avg 1048 fps
1.1 gr Red Dot avg 1259 fps
.8 gr 700X avg 919 fps
.9 gr Bullseye avg 965 fps
1.0 gr Bullseye avg 1075 fps
1.0 gr WW231 avg 1031 fps
1.1 gr 800X avg 840 fps
1.2 gr 800X avg 1054 fps w/Federal small pistol primer

Couple of points for consideration. Standard LR RF ammo has more case capacity than my CF version, hence my loads generate more pressure for a given load. Regardless, the case volume is small and as suggested in the information above, very small increments of change in the charge can have a significant result. Proceed with caution.

[DAVIDMAGNUM]

.........4.5 grs of Swiss Null-B at 1230 FPS using the 45gr UMC bullet......

If accurate that would be the ultimate Smallbore Lever Action Silhouette round.

By the way my one real regret in life is that I never looked John Kort in the eye and shook his hand. Been to Bradford and Ridgway while he was still with us, just not when he was there.

[bobthenailer]

it seemes to me that i read that VV 3N37 was used for the 22 lr as well as other applications

[475/480]

I bought 2000 primed cases off of GB- , bought a MP 37hp/39fp mold and have Bullseye powder on hand.
I have loaded 1.2, 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0gr behind the bullets. Weighs 35gr HP with my alloy . I will shoot this weekend and post my results
I will run the loads thru a TC G2-10" barrel then ( next week) to my SW 5.5" and Buckmark 10" Bull.

**UPDATE - got delayed this weekend will try loads next weekend, 4-18-21**

Sean