Question for may far north countrymen

[Fly]

Will a .54 cal patch round ball take down something as large as a moose or brown bear?

Fly[smilie=2:

[Dean D.]

IMHO it would be the smallest caliber I'd pick. If it were me I'd pick a .62 or a .58 at least. I'm not expert though.

[waksupi]

I'm with Dean.

[Hickory]

Just one of those lifestyles that might disqualify you from Obamacare.:bigsmyl2:

[junkpile]

I'd go with at least a 58, preferably larger. Save the 54 for caribou. A friend of mine was looking for an inline a few months ago, was having a hard time finding anything above 50 for some reason. Ended up not finding what he was after.

[mooman76]

They don't make too many inlines in bigger than 50 cal. I think the 54 would do ok for moose as long as you do your job. For Browns I would want as big as I could get at least a 58.

[starmac]

I would not think a guy was undergunned at all for moose with a 54. For brownbear, it is quite possible a guy might just have one chance to find out.
All that said, I am seriously wanting to move up to 58.

[Hickory]

I had a 58 caliber H&R Huntsman back in the 70's.
Got a frontal shot on a whitetail, it went clear through,
and left a fist size hole in the hind quarters.

Maybe I'm getting old, but, I don't think I'd use a 58 on a moose.
If you don't get a good shot on it, they can get really upset.
And might want to do a Mexican hat dance on you.

[ElDorado]

Lewis and Clark used 54 caliber rifles. They killed quite a few grizzlies, but it doesn’t always kill them right away.

http://lewisandclarkjournals.unl.edu/read/?_xmlsrc=lc.johnsgard.01.04.xml


"Every shooting of a grizzly was a highly risky undertaking. One enormous 600-pound male required ten shots to bring it down. On May 14 six men set out to kill a grizzly bear. Although all six lead balls hit the bear, it attacked, and only after two more bullets struck it, one in the head, did it finally collapse, just before reaching its closest human target."

http://lewisandclarkjournals.unl.edu/read/?_xmlsrc=1805-07-02.xml

From Lewis’ journal:
”After I had completed my observation of Equal Altitudes today Capt. Clark Myself and 12 men passed over to the large Island to hunt bear. the brush in that part of it where the bear frequent is an almost impenitrable thicket of the broad leafed willow; this brush we entered in small parties of 3 or four together and surched in every part. we found one only which made at Drewyer and he shot him in the brest at the distance of about 20 feet, the ball fortunately passed through his heart, the stroke knocked the bear down and gave Drewyer time to get out of his sight; the bear changed his course we pursued him about a hundred yards by the blood and found him dead; we surched the thicket in every part but found no other, and therefore returned. this was a young male and would weigh about 400 lbs. “

[Wayne Smith]

Ned Roberts, in his "The Muzzle Loading Caplock Rifle" tells of a bear hunt or two. Realize that these were black bears. His conclusion is that he would never go bear hunting with a single shot. He used a double rifle.

While you ask a good question I think you are undergunned no matter the caliber if you only have one shot!

[OverMax]

Will a .54 cal patch round ball take down something as large as a moose or brown bear? Absolutely if the shot is dead center of where you want it to be on moose. Within 50-75 yards. I wouldn't hesitate using my 54 and patched ball for the purpose {no brown bear experience and but I've seen huge blacks here.} Haven't shot a black with my 54 either. I don't intentionally hunt bears. Their more of a nuisance for me than anything else.

[waksupi]

I think you should just have me build you a .62!

[KyBill]

If I go Grizzly Hunten I know to take 7 hunters with me

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I am not saying I wouldn't bring a backup gun , but sure , a friend took a black bear with a 50 cal muzzle loading pistol and a conical , a 54 round ball at 40 yards is going to have more thump than a pistol. just maybe not standing on the ground with it , he was in a tree stand shooting down on the bear but said he was very surprised with the penetration for a pistol.


other wise a , maxi or real from a 54 would sure do the trick

[starmac]

I think a 54 especially with a conical is plenty to kill a grizzly. The problem is grizzlys often don't realize they are dead for a while and can wreak havoc till they figure it out.

[Dirty30]

Your .54 will kill a moose easily with good shot placement. I've never shot a brown bear, so I cannot speak to that. I load PRB over 90 gr. of FFFG, and it does the trick, but I'd say that's your starting load on anything elk and larger.

[nhrifle]

With proper shot placement it should work fine but for either of those critters I would definitely want a quick backup shot or two. Moose and bear are very tough and have attitude, and if they get riled, the hunter can quickly become the hunted.

[Zymurgy50]

In hunting dangerous game, you dont have to be faster than the lion, just faster than your hunting companions.........

[idahoron]

I have complete confidence in my slightly hardened paper patched 460 grain 500 S&W bullets. I have no doubt that a moose would be toast., but it ain't gonna yank the rug. On the Brown Bear I would not think twice about it. I would shoot it in a heart beat. I would like to have a back up, but in the end I trust that load even with my life. Ron

[Lead Fred]

We take down elk with 54s all the time. They be big critters.

45/70 is what was used to take down buff, yeah its a heavier round (405) but its going WAY slower that a PRB

[bigted]

I know for sure that a round ball from a good ol 54 would mess up a moose with a proper shot from a broadside shot. the moose can absorb a ton of boolits and not realize they should be resting up so they will continue on till they are in a nasty shint hole of a black spruce pond and then they will die ...where you will be swattin so many critters that yer gonna wonder why ya ever wanted to hunt in the last frontier.

GRIZZ ... stay on the couch with yer muzzle loaders. I don't care what you hunt em with they will take yer lunch from you and never feel bad for it. I know several hunters that have scar's from thinkin they were armed well enough with large cal bolt gun magnum's. these interior grizzlies are surly and mad all the time. when you stumble on em while they are layin up on a kill or gut pile they will attack suddenly and with such ferocity that the hunter is rarely aware there is even a bear in the neighborhood. these bears up here are hungry all the time when outta their bed in spring. anything is in their way and anything will piss em off very fast.

friend of mine got attacked when out and his huntin pard got so flustered by the attack that in panic shot my friends leg off and freaked so hard that he just threw down the rifle and ran back to the pickup where he started it up and drove back to town believing that my friend was dead. this was a seasoned hunter that had shot and killed African big game and black bears for several years.

all in all I will condemn anyone for even presuming the thought of hunting a grizz here and take a chance on allowing a wounded grizz lose on the next unsuspecting berry picker up here that only wants to harvest her share of the berry's for winter.

other then that there is no reason to not come on up and get killed by the worlds most tenacious predator with no enemies known to him. the other thing to understand is that it is illegal for an outta state hunter to come here and hunt grizz without a guide ...so that should tell something.

really please second guess your need to harvest a true nightmare with a muzzleloader. your guide will be the one to leave a family behind as he is duty bound to not allow a wounded bear lose on our society therefore he will be the one going into tall dense brush after the mound of fury you have just created. that is his job as much as putting you in shooting range of these most wonderful bears.

[bigted]

I deleted a second post

[Fly]

Well when I started this thread, I never planed on hunting moose or bear.I was just wondering.I read
a lot of ole mountain man stuff & always thought about how it must have been back in the day?

Fly

[fouronesix]

Funny how the thread evolved. Yes, many of the 1820-40 mountain men carried 50-60 caliber heavy-barreled rifles that shot PRBs on top of very heavy charges. They shot a lot of different things- how quickly, cleanly or humanely those critters were killed (or crippled and lost) is another story. 1820-40 was pre-cartridge.

[KCSO]

I have built guns for just this purpose and one was a 58 and the other was a 62. The 58 was used in bear camp and the guide thught it took down bears quicker than a 300 Win Magnum. The load was a roound ball over 110 grains of FFG. The 62 has dropped game out to an honest 200 yards with a load of one round ball and 170 grains of FFg. If I were facing a grizzle bar with only one shot I would want the 58 at least, not that a 54 wouldnot do the job but...

The biggest game we have taken with a 54 was buffalo and an 85 grain charge put the ball clear through side to side on a big buff.

[waksupi]

Funny how the thread evolved. Yes, many of the 1820-40 mountain men carried 50-60 caliber heavy-barreled rifles that shot PRBs on top of very heavy charges. They shot a lot of different things- how quickly, cleanly or humanely those critters were killed (or crippled and lost) is another story. 1820-40 was pre-cartridge.

Good point. In Audubon's journal of his trip up the Missouri, he asked some people living at a trading fort about hunting. They said they only recovered maybe a third of what they shot. There was so much game, if it didn't fall in sight they would shoot something else.

[bigted]

Well when I started this thread, I never planed on hunting moose or bear.I was just wondering.I read
a lot of ole mountain man stuff & always thought about how it must have been back in the day?

Fly

didn't mean to sound quarrelsome ... I have been asked the dangest questions about hunting grizz up here with anything from a 45 cal up to a 72 cal. my problem is exactly what has been mentioned and alluded to and that is the speed of death of the big bears. they mauled the trappers in days of old as well and if you read enough factual lit. about the era you will see that one of the hazards of thusly living was the bear mauling's as well as the Indians and the buff herds in stampede... etc.

so real answer is yes ... 54 will do the job ... now how prudent it should be is in the investigation of the reader.

again didn't mean to be mean ... a feller just see's so much ridicules crude up here and it be needless if folks just do some research first. im bettin that this is the exact reason for the African hunts to have so many rules and laws to regulate what and where and with what bore to hunt different species over there.

the ol 54 does a fine job on everything else on our continent but and except for the big bears.

[Fly]

bigted I never took what you said as bad.I enjoyed you input, from living up there.Must remember
I'm a ole Cajun, & badest thing we had was gators (wink)

Fly

[bigted]

whewww GATORS !!! id like to tangle with one some day but not so soon. do you get a lot that are 9 foot +? id think that hunting those big lizards would just about put the soup up yer neck sometimes.

glad you were not offended by my maybe crass reply. just don't want anymore hurt to the bears or pilgrims that pick berries out where a crippled grizz may decide that a person that moves kinda slow might be great snack material.

[Fly]

Oh heck, no one comes here to start a fight.We argue & yes we disagree.But we learn from
each other also.I,m to ole to fight any more any how (wink).

Fly