Ruger Timing

[ncbearman]

I have a 1972 Ruger 22 that shows significant drag marks on the cylinder from what I assume is timing issue. I just got a Ruger New Model Blackhawk 45Colt/45acp convertible and it looks to me like the cylinder latch is dropping against the cylinder too soon. What is the correct dropping point for the cylinder latch? Are drag marks unavoidable on a wheel gun?

[Jeff H]

The '72 is an old model and if I remember correctly, the cylinder stop doesn't drop until it gets to the start of the ramp cut leading into the cylinder stop cut UNLESS you lower the hammer from half cock instead of fully cocking it first. I have heard of this marking the cylinder but never tried it on mine to see if it will do it. The ring may just be years of use unless you have other symptoms of timing problems.

The new model cylinder stop drops much sooner and it seems that the ring is inevitable. Not necessarily a timing issue but some see it as a timing design issue simply the ring, which is often seen as a sign of improper handling of a single-action. Again, unless the gun exhibits other timing problem symptoms, it may just be aesthetic.

Jerry Kuhnhausen wrote an amazing book on these revolvers (among others) which is a must-have if you want to understand what's going on inside them. I think I paid thirty bucks for mine years ago but it has saved me hundreds, maybe more, in repairs or modifications that I could do myself, or better yet, repairs and modifications that I found out I didn't need to do.

[ncbearman]

Is this it? Also, what would be other symptoms of poor timing? Thanks for your response.

80474

[kywoodwrkr]

I just cut and pasted an article into a word doc. dealing with a related aspect of this subject.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=185420
Now I know this referenced topic doesn't answer the original question, but I'm trying to turn some new cylinders and before I work with the timing on them, I think I need to look very carefully at doing this first.
The above book by Kuhnhausen, while it frustrates me at times, is probably the best reference as it addresses tuning factory gun parts as well as tuning with enhanced parts.
But it is a llloooooong read if you want to digest very much of it.
Good luck.
Oh, check that website and section out for exactly what you want to do as well.

[Jeff H]

Is this it? Also, what would be other symptoms of poor timing? Thanks for your response.

80474

That's it and, yes, it's a dry read unless you're a real Ruger SA Nerd.

I can't begin to rattle off what is in that book and it would be a lot to type. Basically, the chamber throats need to be aligned with the bore when you fire. If not reasonably close, the bullets will hit the forcing cone off center enough to blow lead particles out the BC gap, splattering the cylinder face, back of the barrel, forcing cone and your fingers sometimes. The top tooth of the pawl should be short enough to not push the cylinder against the stop before it has had time to drop out of the slot and the bottom tooth must be long enough to get the cylinder into full lock-up just before reaching full-cock while also being short enough not to try to force the center of the next chamber throat past the center of the bore. This doesn't mean it's all in the cylinder stop or the pawl, but visualizing what they do and understanding when they should do what helps zero in on the problem.

Not to just push Mr. Kuhnhausen's book, but he's already got it all spelled out extremely well and there's a lot of detail there. If your gun cocks smoothly, you're not having accuracy issues (timing is obviously not the only or even first potential cause there), uneven leading in the forcing cone, lead spraying from the BC, you probably don't have a huge timing problem. Odds are that it could be improved upon by a good 'smith, but I have had many Rugers that shot extremely well even though the throats were visibly not perfectly aligned with the bore. I have one right now that short strokes, where the hammer reaches full-cock soon enough before the cylinder stop locks the cylinder up that I splatter the front of a chamber once in a while because I don't cock it aggressively enough. I should fix it but I have been consciously over-cocking instead. That happens during slow, deliberate fire off a rest and is not such a big deal otherwise.

[MtGun44]

Drag marks are not proof of a timing problem. Spitting lead or
inaccuracy or failure to index all the way when the hammer is cocked
very slowly are signs of timing issues.

Bill

[seagiant]

Is this it? Also, what would be other symptoms of poor timing? Thanks for your response.

80474

Hi,
If you like to work on your own weapons,the Kuhnhausen books are a MUST!!!

[DougGuy]

The Ruger SA is timed correctly when the cylinder latch pops up against the cylinder very early on in the roatation from one chamber to the next. It -will- inherit drag marks, and that is working correctly for a Ruger SA. As Bill said, unless it's spitting or not indexing, it's likely not broke..

[contender1]

Ok, call me a Ruger Nerd.
The 22, made in 1972 should be an Old Model, (3 screws in the side,) vs the 45 being a New Model, (2 pins in the side.)

For OM's, to prevent the dreaded turn ring, you should never lower the hammer from the half-cock position. Any time the hammer is taken to half cock to load etc, it should ALWAYS be fully cocked prior to lowering the hammer. (Always in a safe direction of course.) This will prevent the turn ring. Sounds like your 22 was mis-handled along the course of it's history.

NM's due to the changes made in their action, will always get a turn ring if not tinkered with.
The book mentioned above is excellent, but you can get good info on how to modify the gun to prevent it. There are a couple of different methods to prevent the turn ring on NM's.
Visit the www.rugerforum.com to learn more.

[leftiye]

I just cut and pasted an article into a word doc. dealing with a related aspect of this subject.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=185420
Now I know this referenced topic doesn't answer the original question, but I'm trying to turn some new cylinders and before I work with the timing on them, I think I need to look very carefully at doing this first.
The above book by Kuhnhausen, while it frustrates me at times, is probably the best reference as it addresses tuning factory gun parts as well as tuning with enhanced parts.
But it is a llloooooong read if you want to digest very much of it.
Good luck.
Oh, check that website and section out for exactly what you want to do as well.

I'd be real curious as to how you locate(d) the cylinder locking slots. I've made everything necessary to make Ruger cylinders, but the best I can do with these slots is to lock up the cylinders with a plug in the chambers which screws to a rod in the bore, and then mark the slot location in the frame. Probly best to mark one and cut all six from that one on a rotary table. Sorry if this is OT for this thread.

[frankenfab]

I'd be real curious as to how you locate(d) the cylinder locking slots. I've made everything necessary to make Ruger cylinders, but the best I can do with these slots is to lock up the cylinders with a plug in the chambers which screws to a rod in the bore, and then mark the slot location in the frame. Probly best to mark one and cut all six from that one on a rotary table. Sorry if this is OT for this thread.

I would go about this the opposite way. You need to know how much the latch slot is offset from the base pin centerline. I was thinking that info was in Jerry's book, but if not, it could be measured on a surface plate with a height gage.

Cut all latch slots and leads on the cylinder using a rotary or fixture, and then install the cylinder in the gun with the barrel removed and a bushing installed in it's place. Transfer mark or line bore charge holes from there.

There's quite a bit of info on the Single Actions board about doing this.

And what Contender1 said about the timing/lockup on old vs new single actions. "Timing" is what gets you to "lockup". If the lockup is off, and it wasn't originally, this can only be from worn or bent parts.

[Cadillo]

The Ruger SA is timed correctly when the cylinder latch pops up against the cylinder very early on in the roatation from one chamber to the next. It -will- inherit drag marks, and that is working correctly for a Ruger SA. As Bill said, unless it's spitting or not indexing, it's likely not broke..

While true for a new model, quite wrong for the old model mentioned.