IMR 4227 and the 45 colt

[white eagle]

anyone use this combination?
I just bought 8# of this ,went after 2400 but they didn't have any matter of fact they was out of everything the shelves were bare
anyway do you have any loads you would like to share or any information about using this powder with the 45 colt..... new to me never used it before [smilie=b:

[06ackley]

I have switched to using IMR4227 in a lot of my pistol rounds and the 45 colt is one of them.Most loading books have data from mild to a little wild.If you are looking for heavy colt ammo then stay with H110.It always seems to leave a little unburnt powder in the barrel as well but I am fine with that.What are you loading it for(firearm)and with what bullet or boolit?Light plinking load or one for hunting?

[tomme boy]

I did not like it. It left a lot of unburned powder kernels in the bore. It did clean up as you really poured on the power though. 17-18 gr with a 300 gr was really accurate in the 45 colt.

[shorty500M]

20.5g is my go to 4227 charge for 250-283g bullets. very uniform ballistics and great accurracy. burning a touch dirty doesnt bother me because have never seen powder fouling ruin accurract just nnnnnnasty leading or evil copper

[white eagle]

I am looking to develop an accurate hunting load
heard a bunch reference it for the 44 mag just not much on the colt
does it have the same characteristics as h4227 are they interchangeable?

[LUCKYDAWG13]

i used it in my 454 than just went back to H110 but if i had a #8 can i would
take a little more time and try a few more boolits than i did when i tried it
last time

[USSR]

If you can ignore the leftover powder kernels in the bore after firing, you will find that 4227 produces some of the most accurate loads in .357 and .45 Colt. You don't say what firearm you are using, but in my S&W 25-5 I have used up to 22.0gr with my 265gr SWC HP's. Great deer load.

Don

[tomme boy]

New made IMR4227 is H4227 straight from Hodgdon. Email them. They can tell you which data to use. I used H data. But email them to confirm. I did. But I would just so you have for personal reference.

ADI from Australia is who makes it for them. I was told they just add a little graphite to it to color it to make it look like the regular IMR powders. When Hodgdon was buying out all the powder makers, they combined a few and got rid of a bunch.

[white eagle]

ruger blackhawk bisley model is the gun I will be putting this together for

[ddixie884]

John Taffin wrote he uses a lot of 4227 in his colt single actions. Look on his website..

[Lloyd Smale]

was told may years ago that the residue left with 4227 is filler not unburned powder and ive never seen where it effected anything. Ive heard some preach it gets there gun so dirty that it ties them up but i shoot the snot out of my guns and have never seen it happen.

[at_liberty]

Copying from Speer #14, .45 Colt .452 LSWC, 250 gr, Speer part 4683, COAL tested 1.600", 17.0 gr rated 775 fps to 19.0 gr rated at 904 fps.

[RobS]

First look on the jug and see where it was made........Canada or Australia as there are two IMR 4227's out there.

[tomme boy]

Canada it is IMR, Australia it is Hodgdon.

[RobS]

Canada it is IMR, Australia it is Hodgdon.

Yep and now the new IMR 4227 comes from Australia i.e. H4227 with an IMR 4227 label.

[Hounddog]

Does 4227 smell weird to anyone else. After shooting some it always smells different than my other powders. Shoots good, just smells weird. Maybe cause its single base?

Hounddog

[KCSO]

I use it all the time for my heavy loads in 45 Colt. I use it in a 24" barrel rifle and it burns cleaner there. The heavy load gives over 1800 fps with a 250 grain bullet and id daedly on deer size game to 100 yards or more.

[sixshot]

A very common load for the Ruger 45's is 20 grs of 4227 & a 250-255 gr lead slug, many of the early silhouette shooters liked that load.

Dick

[Char-Gar]

Some years back, Mike V, the sage of Montana wrote of a load passed on to him by Hank Williams Jr. that was accurate, produced good velocity, but moderate pressure in the 45 Colt cartridge. It was 20/4227 over just about any 240 to 280 grain cast bullet.

I tried the load and found it to do everything said about it. I have used this charge with 452423 (244 grains), 454424 (260 grains) and RCBS 270 SSA (280 grains). I have loaded several thousand and have been very pleased with the results. It is an excellent top end load, for DA sixguns, Colt SSAs and Ruger Flattop and New Vaquero frame pistols.

I don't shoot many top end loads anymore, but if I did, this is the one I would use. The unburned powder bothers me not in the least.

[44man]

I found accuracy in the .44 but heat problems. Worked super in other calibers. I never tried it in the .45 Colt so I have no answer. It is a good powder for many calibers, I just stay away in the .44.
Keep the .44 cool and it shot super groups. Can't keep a revolver cool shooting IHMSA!

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I found 20 g 4227 and Lyman 454424 sized .454 very accurate in Hawes single action .45 Colt.

[white eagle]

its made in Australia the 4227

[RobS]

its made in Australia the 4227

That's good IMO. I believe the IMR powder had more issues with different temps where as the Hodgdon formulated 4227 isn't touchy like the IMR.

[Char-Gar]

That's good IMO. I believe the IMR powder had more issues with different temps where as the Hodgdon formulated 4227 isn't touchy like the IMR.

I have it on reliable information that IMR and Hodgdon (which owns both companies) is the same powder that comes from the same spigot, just put up in different containers.

[RobS]

I have it on reliable information that IMR and Hodgdon (which owns both companies) is the same powder that comes from the same spigot, just put up in different containers.

Yes that is correct..........we were talking about where the powders were made from and if it's made in Australia, which will say on the bottle, then its the H4227 even if it says IMR4227. The thread has already determined this just read the thread; myself and others have already stated this. Anything else?


Yep and now the new IMR 4227 comes from Australia i.e. H4227 with an IMR 4227 label.


New made IMR4227 is H4227 straight from Hodgdon. Email them. They can tell you which data to use. I used H data. But email them to confirm. I did. But I would just so you have for personal reference.ADI from Australia is who makes it for them. I was told they just add a little graphite to it to color it to make it look like the regular IMR powders. When Hodgdon was buying out all the powder makers, they combined a few and got rid of a bunch.


Canada it is IMR, Australia it is Hodgdon.

[Char-Gar]

Getting a little cranky there in Kansas Rob. Don't spend to much time worrying about it for I am in my cranky phase as well.

[bigboredad]

That's a mighty big spigot that can from here to Australia or maybe hodgdon just puts Australia on the stickers for all the internet commandos that are cranky

[45sixgun]

Sorry I'm coming kind of late the conversation...PS Paul sent me some of this powder to try. It's given me some of my best groups with the 45 Colt. I really like it.

80875

[rexherring]

I've had good luck with accuracy in my BH but get a lot of powder back in my face when shooting into the wind. So I use H110 or AA#9 for heavy loads.

[Mohillbilly]

I have gotten some of the most accurate shots out of 4227 . 4227 is not quite the fastest load ( but close ) and is a little dirty , but it suprised me that it was'nt dirter . I have used it in 44s, 45colt, 454 Casull , 45 Winmag .

[Cornbread]

What are you guys getting fps wise with 255gr cast & 20gr of 4227 in the 45 colt?

[Plastikosmd]

Moh, what is your win mag load, I just loaded some up, will have to check my book, may have been 19 g ??

[doc1876]

I just loaded up 17g of IMR4227 in my 44 Sp, with a 254g Keith bullet. I haven't had a chance to pull a trigger, and don't know when it will happen, but from the research, I should be in the 1000 fps range. I am really looking forward to trying it. I have been using W231, and while it has been very accurate, it is some kind of dirty.

[Art in Colorado]

Only pistol powder I have seen latley is 4227. Not sure why.

[1989toddm]

Only pistol powder I have seen latley is 4227. Not sure why.

Same here, which led me to buy a pound. Haven't tried it yet but hope to in 44mag.

[Cornbread]

Well I just tried 20gr of IMR- 4227 under a 255gr Kieth Semi-wadcutter out of my Ruger convertible 5.5" and all I can say is: WOW! that is a scary accurate load!

Open sites at 25 yards and I have bullet holes touching bullet holes in a 1.5" in diameter bullseye. Not sure what the speed is but I'll take groups like that any day.

[jdt81]

IMR 4227 likes heavy boolits.
Years ago I tried the Hank Williams Jr load of 20gr over a 255 gr cast boolit. Accurate but dirty. Lots of unburned powder or filler. I was done with that powder and thought i would never look back.

I recently bought a 454 and needed some slow powders for heavy boolits. Now, thanks to the current state of things I really didn't have any choice. 4227 was the ONLY thing on the shelves for about a year, so I held my nose and bought it. It is fantastic with heavy boolits! Clean, accurate, and pushes lead almost as fast as H 110. It is now my favorite of the slow powders (followed closely by 2400). It is a great powder with a lot of potential and it is much more forgiving then H 110/296. You just have to match it to the right boolit.

[Naphtali]

How much 4227 have you? I have an 8-pound (or maybe 10??) of H110 from which I have shot less than 50 reloads. I loathe the powder - it has fierce muzzle blast and 2-foot muzzle flash. Having typed that, I must admit that it achieves the highest muzzle velocity with superb accuracy of any powder I've used in 45 Colt (300-grain SWC GC), 480 Ruger, and 475 Linebaugh.

I borrowed a small amount of 4227 to shoot. I find it more pleasant although it "maxes out" about 150 fps lower than H110 in 5.5-. 6.5-, and 7.5-inch barrels.

Hope this helps.
*****
If you have a similar amount of 4227 that isn't what you hoped for, I want to trade. If you have interest, I'll dig out the container in storage to verify its amount.

[Cornbread]

IMR 4227 likes heavy boolits.
It is fantastic with heavy boolits! Clean, accurate, and pushes lead almost as fast as H 110. It is now my favorite of the slow powders (followed closely by 2400). It is a great powder with a lot of potential and it is much more forgiving then H 110/296. You just have to match it to the right boolit.

I agree, I love that I can go from 1200fps to 1700+fps with it in my 454 casulls vs H110 where you get load data that looks like: min == 34.4gr & max == 34.9gr etc. with almost no room to move around. If your bullet doesn't work with H110 you have to look at other bullets where as 4227 gives you a lot of leway up and down to play with to dial in your bullet. I use it in 45-70 as well as my revolvers.

[snowwolfe]

Since this thread is starting to go a little off topic might as well ask this question.

Has anyone tried 4227 in a 45-70 revolver? Likes or dislikes?

[Art in Colorado]

Wonder if Mag primers would burn 4227 more efeciently??

[Cornbread]

It works well in the 45-70 rifle but it does leave quite a bit of air space. Nothing a little cream of wheat doesn't fix but if you don't like using fillers you might want to try a different powder that fills more of the case. I use a 350gr cast bullet from an NOE mold(this one (http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?products_id=423)) out of my 45-70 as it only has an 18" barrel it doesn't even make a full rifling twist so heavier bullets don't stabilize as well out of it. The bonus is I can size those down and shoot them out of my 45 colt or my 454s. Either way I use 4227 under all of them. The 45-70 needs filler though because 4227 seems to function best when lightly compressed.

[reader]

Some time ago I bought 2 lbs of old Hodgdon H4227 for cheap. I have shot one lb already.

Linebaugh has some "Ruger-only" .45 Colt data:
http://www.customsixguns.com/writings/dissolving_the_myth.htm
Starting Loads Maximum Loads
Bullet Powder Grs. Vel. CUP Powder Grs. Vel. CUP
260 cast H 4227 24 1180 24.800 H 4227 25.5 1340 30,000

I loaded and chronoed .45 Colt Ballisti-Cast #1101 Keith 260 grs, Starline brass, Fed. GM150M primer.
H4227:
20 grs 954 fps Ruger Blackhawk 4 3/4"
20 grs 889 fps S&W 25-9 4"
23 grs 1102 fps Ruger Blackhawk 4 3/4"
23 grs 1054 fps S&W 25-9 4"
24 grs 1155 fps Ruger Blackhawk 4 3/4"
25 grs 1291 fps Ruger Blackhawk 7.5"
25.5 grs 1338 fps Ruger Blackhawk 7.5"

Temperature was 0..2 Celsius (32..36 F). Note this powder can be temperature sensitive, 44man said earlier. Also note, the powder was old, another lot could give higher pressures. Ruger Red/Blackhawk only, not for weaker guns! Start low.

Hope this helps.

[35 Whelen]

Temperature was 0..2 Celsius (32..36 F). Note this powder can be temperature sensitive, 44man said earlier.


FWIW H4227 (and IMR-4227) is not considered to be temperature sensitive as it is a single base powder and is in fact H4227 is part of Hodgdon's Extreme line of powders whose claim to fame is consistent velocities throughout a broad range of temperatures. Single base powders primary ingredient in nitrocellulose. Double base powders, containing nitrocellulose AND nitroglycerine, however are temperature sensitive.

35W

[reader]

35W, thanks for the clarification! I only wrote a disclaimer, I cannot estimate it or have time to test. 44man experience was about .44 mag anyway with higher pressures. Could be a combination of things maybe. Sorry for confusion.

[romance_coffee]

I use 22gr of imr4227 with a mag primer under my accurate mold 45-290V in my lever action. It will shoot 3/4" groups at 50 yards with me sitting at the picnic table as a rest. We designed that bullet with maximum room for powder to keep pressure lower. It's a very pleasant load to shoot... Not so pleasant for the two deer I harvested with it this year though. :) when I get around to it, I'll have to try working up a load in the Blackhawk. Personally, I Love the smell!

[jwp475]

Back on the day David Bradshaw won a lot of trophys using 4227 shooting IHMSA before switching to H-100/296. The latter give a bit more speed, but 4227 is a bit slower burning, also accurate.

[ejcrist]

I know this is an older thread but I just wanted to add that I tried IMR 4227 in a FA 83 (45 Colt cylinder) along with a bunch of other powders yesterday at the range and 4227 was the most accurate by a fairly wide margin. That was the first time I ever used it but I like it a lot.

[Cornbread]

I know this is an older thread but I just wanted to add that I tried IMR 4227 in a FA 83 (45 Colt cylinder) along with a bunch of other powders yesterday at the range and 4227 was the most accurate by a fairly wide margin. That was the first time I ever used it but I like it a lot.

I use it in my 45 Colt Blackhawk as well as my 454s and like you found, for my 45 colt as well as my 454s it is more accurate than anything else I have ever tried.

[sixshot]

I not only use a lot of 4227 (20 grs.) in my Ruger 45 Colt but I also use a lot of it in my 5 shot Ruger 480 with a 385 gr HP, love it!

Dick

[Cornbread]

sixshot, I use that same load under 260gr rnfp water dropped COWW out of my Ruger 45 Colt and it's beyond accurate.

[ejcrist]

I'm using 22 grains of 4227 under the 45-270-SAA cast from straight wheel weights and air cooled. I'm getting a hair under 1,200 fps out of a 7 1/2" barrel and the recoil is very manageable. I didn't notice any un-burnt powder and didn't have any sign of leading at all, even after running the Lewis Lead Remover down the barrel, forcing cone, and cylinder throats. Accuracy was outstanding at 25 yards off a rest with open sights. Groups were between 5/8"-1 1/8" center to center. I don't have any other handgun that has shot that good. I'm very impressed with this powder.

[35 Whelen]

I have no doubt 4227 works well, but I can't get past the relatively enormous charges required for the velocity attained. Thoughts?

35W

[bigboredad]

And thanks to sixshot I also use a lot in my 480. I also like it in .45 colt and .,475

[Bzcraig]

Don't shoot guns beginning with .4? But as mentioned, it does well with heavy boolits. I have a 180gr I load in 38 & 357 that it is very accurate with.

[ejcrist]

I have no doubt 4227 works well, but I can't get past the relatively enormous charges required for the velocity attained. Thoughts?

35W

I thought about that too but it's a non-issue for me. I'm estimating I'll go through it quicker than say 2400 so it'll cost a little more to shoot, but on the bright side it doesn't seem to be as popular as 2400 or H110 so it's been a lot more available in my area. Another good point is it fills the case so I'm guessing it's not as position sensitive as most.

[Cornbread]

4227 is really position sensitive if there is air space. I found out the hard way using it in a 45-70, I would get drastically different impacts depending on where the powder was in the case. For a target that looked a point graph of chaos theory put four rounds in the tube and start shooting so the powder would be in random places and then try to get a group at or beyond 100 yards. Using a filler(cream of wheat) cleared that problem right up. So long as it is just touching the base of the bullet or has very little room to move it seems to be super accurate. Give it room to shift about a lot and you will probably see the same bizarre non-groups that I did. I buy it by the 8lb jug so the fact that it takes a large charge of it doesn't bother me. All my guns do that, that start with .45 even using other powders like 3031 etc. I rarely shoot any kind of fluffy powder for reduced loads, the only exception would be .45 acp.

[BigAl52]

Like you guys I tried it in my FA 83 in 475. I use an LBT 385 gr bullet with 25 grains and a mag primer. Its the most accurate load I have used in that gun to date and recoil isn't bad. I've also tried in in 45 colt and it does well there also. However my favorite load to date in the colt is 10.2 grs of HS 6 with a powder coated Mo cast 250gr RNFP. Al

[ejcrist]

Wonder if Mag primers would burn 4227 more efeciently??

Art - I've mostly heard and read that 4227 doesn't require magnum primers but I read in Brian Pearce's article on the 45-270-SAA where he used magnum primers for 4227 loads. I don't have the link to that article but it was in one of the past editions of Handloader. I followed Brian's loads and used a large pistol magnum primer and got great results.

[USSR]

I have no doubt 4227 works well, but I can't get past the relatively enormous charges required for the velocity attained. Thoughts?

35W

What's the matter, not enough "Its the most accurate load I have used..." quotes? ;-)

Don

[doc1876]

I just loaded up 17g of IMR4227 in my 44 Sp, with a 254g Keith bullet. I haven't had a chance to pull a trigger, and don't know when it will happen, but from the research, I should be in the 1000 fps range. I am really looking forward to trying it. I have been using W231, and while it has been very accurate, it is some kind of dirty.


Just got back.........254g keith (made by Bullshop) backed by 17g IMR 4227, CCI primer and Starline brass. mighty fine, a little hard on the hand, but less than 4in groups out of my Lipsey's Ruger 44sp 5 1/2 in barrel at 30 yds.
The load I really liked was 13g. Same results with a lot less recoil.

I also used 13g in my .45 Colt with a 7 1/2 bbl, and some 255g SWC. Just as accurate, and for the first time, I really enjoyed shooting the Colt, as I was able to hit the target

[sandman228]

a while back I picked up 4 lb of new old stock h4227 from a local gunshop according to date on his price tag he had it since 1981, it says made in Scotland on the bottle I paid 15.95 a pound for it .I tried loading some 357 mag rounds using imr4227 data and it worked well .ive also used it for 32h&r and 327 fed mag loads with very good results .I still have 2 lb of the old h4227 left and ive also picked up a few lb of newer imr4227 made in Canada but I wont open it till I use up the old . I wouldn't mind trying it in 45 lc I use 4756 with 200 gr swc bullets in it now but will eventually need to use something else since 4756 is no more . has anyone tried 4227 in 45 lc with a lee 200 gr swc bullet . I will be shooting them from a ruger Blackhawk 4 5/8 45 convertible . im just looking for an accurate plinker load

[cold1]

Just Chronied some Lee 255 RF over 19.8g of 4227. Average velocity was 744fps. Ruger BH with 4 5/8 barrel. I was a little disappointed in that I was getting the same velocity over 6g of reddot.

[35 Whelen]

Just Chronied some Lee 255 RF over 19.8g of 4227. Average velocity was 744fps. Ruger BH with 4 5/8 barrel. I was a little disappointed in that I was getting the same velocity over 6g of reddot.

Did you use a good, heavy crimp?

[ejcrist]

Just Chronied some Lee 255 RF over 19.8g of 4227. Average velocity was 744fps. Ruger BH with 4 5/8 barrel. I was a little disappointed in that I was getting the same velocity over 6g of reddot.

Something doesn't sound right. I'm using 22 grains over the RCBS 45-270-SAA in a 7 1/2" barrel and getting about 1,150 fps. Like 35 Whelen said, make sure you have a good crimp. I'd verify the chronograph is working ok too. 744 is way below what I'd expect with your setup.

[Cornbread]

I shoot a 260grn RNFP with 20grn of 4227 out of a Ruger 45 Colt convertible and I believe I am getting between 940fps - 980fps. Sounds like something is off with your load or chrono or something because I would expect way better than 744fps.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

20 gr 4227 and 454424 at 260g, very accurate in a Sauer-Hawes Colt copy and a 3-screw Ruger Blackhawk

[cold1]

I think I have a heavy crimp. I did not use the Lee Factory crimp die, just roll crimped them when I seated them. I will load up somemore with 22g 4227 and see what they chrony at.

I dont think the chrony is the problem. I was shooting the reddot loads first knowing that they were a light load. When I brought out the 4227 loads I was expecting more recoil. They felt the same as the red dot. Thats when I broke out the chrony and found there wasnt 50fps difference in the two loads. The POI of the two loads were almost identical. The groups were big, but I am new to casting and shooting lead so I wasnt too terribly disappointed in the groups. I havent shot pistols in several years so I am sure I did not help the group size either.

Lets say it is the chrony, how do I check it?

[Cornbread]

There are guys on here with a lot more knowledge than me but to check my chrono I just shoot a known load over it. I have a .308 jacketed load that does pretty much on the nose the same velocity so I usually shoot that over it to be sure. If I didn't have a known load I suppose I would get a buddy to bring his and see if there was a difference between them.

Are you measuring every load on a zeroed scale or are you throwing it from some type of measuring or metering device?

It just seems odd that you are only shooting .2grn less than I am and you are seeing an over 200fps difference.

[ejcrist]

Cornbread has a good point. In my case I'll throw a charge with a RCBS powder measure at about 21.5 grains, and then bring it up to 22.0 with a trickler. Also after pouring the charge into the case I'll put the empty pan back on the scale to make sure it reads zero. Sometimes your scale will need to be re-zeroed if you're using an electronic scale. Also make sure you don't have a vent or fan blowing air onto the scale as this can lead to incorrect readings too.

[dhom]

I use 20gr/IMR 4227 with a 45-270 SAA and a WLP primer with great accuracy. I am shooting a 5 1/2" Ruger bisley. I haven't chorno this load but, guessing approx. 1000 fps. You have to use WLP and a firm crimp. Standard primers will not work as well, at least in my revolver.

[ejcrist]

Forgot to mention but dhom's post reminded me, I use LPM primers (Federal). I've read a lot of people use regular primers but I went off of Brian Pearce's load recommendation where he used LPM for the 45-270-SAA boolit. Don't know if it makes that much of a difference or not.

[Cornbread]

I use CCI large pistol primers for my loads.

[plesant3]

I like it in the 45-70, but never tried it in a revolver. And I DON'T like it in the Colt, primarily because I'm not looking for particularly hot loads, and can get the same accuracy with a lot less of a faster powder. I guess my philosophy is: "At today's powder prices, why would I want to burn 4 times as much?" Sorta defeats the economy of handloading...

[ejcrist]

I like it in the 45-70, but never tried it in a revolver. And I DON'T like it in the Colt, primarily because I'm not looking for particularly hot loads, and can get the same accuracy with a lot less of a faster powder. I guess my philosophy is: "At today's powder prices, why would I want to burn 4 times as much?" Sorta defeats the economy of handloading...

Copy that - makes sense for those not wanting warm loads or that want the cost savings. In my case I load for the best accuracy I can get at the velocity for hunting I want first, and savings is a secondary consideration. Not that I have cash to throw away or anything but working with handloads and boolit alloys cast at home I've been able to get substantially better accuracy at higher velocities than any factory loads I've tried so far. I'd continue to cast my own and handload even if factory fodder were substantially less expensive. I really feel sorry for those guys living in California with the lead boolit ban. If I were in their shoes I'd have to put everything in storage since lead is all I've been happy shooting for a good number of years.

[cold1]

I like it in the 45-70, but never tried it in a revolver. And I DON'T like it in the Colt, primarily because I'm not looking for particularly hot loads, and can get the same accuracy with a lot less of a faster powder. I guess my philosophy is: "At today's powder prices, why would I want to burn 4 times as much?" Sorta defeats the economy of handloading...

Sometimes its not about what you want, its about what you have. I returned to reloading about 6 months ago and around here there was no "pistol" powder to be found on shelves. Seems that the retirees new when all the powder shipments came in and would be waiting at the door when they arrived. So i had to look for someting I could use that was on the shelves. A little research and I had a list of powders that I could use in any of my handguns. I went to the local gun show and arrived at about 10 am. The first 6 powders on my list were gone already. Yes that was at the gun show. I came across a table that had 4227, it was on my list so I bought 2 cans.

4227 has turned out to be a very versatile powder. I can load it in 223, 45-70, 38sp, 357, 45c,and 44mag. So 1 powder and 5 different cartridges. Hopefully, the retirees will not catch on and I wont have to worry about it being on the shelves.

[Cornbread]

I don't like 4227 in my 45-70, it leaves too much space and even when used with a filler it wasn't very accurate for me. 3031 worked way better for me with cast in 45-70 than 4227 did. This was with cast plain base 350gr bullets, your mileage may vary.

[rondog]

If I may resurrect this old thread -

I recently bought a Rossi R92 rifle with 24" barrel in .45 Colt. Looking for various different loads, I'd like to try IMR4227 with the Lee 255gr. LRNFP, powdercoated.

Does anybody have suggestions? My Lee and Lyman books have nothing, can't find anything online either. I'm "thinking" 20-22gr, but unsure what to do in a 24" rifle barrel.

[Cornbread]

If I may resurrect this old thread -

I recently bought a Rossi R92 rifle with 24" barrel in .45 Colt. Looking for various different loads, I'd like to try IMR4227 with the Lee 255gr. LRNFP, powdercoated.

Does anybody have suggestions? My Lee and Lyman books have nothing, can't find anything online either. I'm "thinking" 20-22gr, but unsure what to do in a 24" rifle barrel.

I use 20grn of 4227 with a 255grn RNFP for all my 45 Colt loads. I do however shoot this in a Ruger Blackhawk which can handle Ruger only loads. I don't know if that is a Ruger only load or not but the lever action I shoot it in is a 454 Casull lever action so I don't have to worry about pressure at all in it either. Use 20grn at your own risk as I am not sure what pressure level it is at or if it is OK for your gun. I will tell you though that 20grn of 4227 with a RNFP is by far and away the most accurate 45 Colt load I ever tried so I stuck with it for plinking and hunting.

[rondog]

Interesting, thanks! Looks like a good place to start!

[Treetop]

rondog, I have same exact rifle and I use 19 grains of IMR 4227 behind a 255 grain Keith SWC. It's very mild and puts our smaller central Texas bucks down immediately. All bucks shot have been pass throughs with lots of internal damage and mild recoil from both my 3 screw Ruger and my 24" Rossi.

The only change I have made to my Rossi is the addition of a Lyman tang sight. Using this sight, I shot a 5 shot, < 1" group off the bench with this load at 50 yards, so I didn't experiment any further.

[44man]

I found one place for 4227, either one, the .357 max. No luck in the 45-70 or .44 mag.
I admit to not trying it in many calibers and not in the .45 so I don't know.
But at IHMSA shoots with it in the .44, heat affected it so at 200 meters I would be 16 clicks up over normal and still hit 50 meters short. I would hit the first steel center and next shot was lower to continue lower and lower. I turned my SBH over to see if the barrel was bent. 296 cured it and I shot so many 40's I lost count while the 4227 shooters cussed a blue streak.
Yes, in practice I shot super groups.
What does it do in the .45? I have no idea but it will never, EVER go in my .44's again.
ALL of my big bores use 296 except the BFR 45-70 that uses 4759.

[Flinchrock]

The very first powder that I ever loaded hand gun ammo with was IMR4227, worked up to 25gr under a 240gr bullet in 44 mag.
I used mag primers then and I still do today when I load with that powder. In the distant past, I tried standard primers for one 50 rnd batch. I didn't have a chrono then but the loads didn't "feel" right and the groups opened right up. Never used standard primers with it again.
Always got great accuracy with it in .44mag. I haven't done much with it in .45 Colt yet, but that will change soon.:bigsmyl2:

[44man]

The very first powder that I ever loaded hand gun ammo with was IMR4227, worked up to 25gr under a 240gr bullet in 44 mag.
I used mag primers then and I still do today when I load with that powder. In the distant past, I tried standard primers for one 50 rnd batch. I didn't have a chrono then but the loads didn't "feel" right and the groups opened right up. Never used standard primers with it again.
Always got great accuracy with it in .44mag. I haven't done much with it in .45 Colt yet, but that will change soon.:bigsmyl2:
I DID get accuracy with maybe the best 200 meter group I shot in practice but it did not hold at shoots. Testing with 296 had POI stay the same and primer testing showed the mag primer open groups to 3X larger. I reject over 1" at 50 meters none the less and have many at 1/2" even to 100 meters. I did a drop test with my boolit at 200 yards, home made mold. Got 1-5/16". 21 gr of 296, Fed 150, 330 gr boolit. 174168 Last two shots in my box at the end of an IHMSA shoot at a cardboard chicken at 200 meters. 174169 Opens from Creedmore. Those two shots measure 5/8". 240 gr Hornady Sil bullet, 23.5 gr of 296 and a Fed 150.
Come back with 4227. Ever aim at a chicken at 200 meters? Look at the period at your post.
Some love 4227's but never show. Get the gun warm.
I won Ohio state with 79 out of 80, shook on the last ram. 296 and a Fed 150. Can you hit 20 straight turkeys at 150 meters with 4227? I was International class.

[ole 5 hole group]

really old thread, but I like IMR4227 and find it to be accurate in 44 magnum, 45 Colt, 500 S&W but it is real dirty in low pressure loads - cleans up well at max velocities. It is unburnt powder that you see (confirmed by calling manufacture) and it will tie up your revolver on occasion - no big deal, as a powder kernel will get under your star extractor when you kick out the empties and that causes the bind.

Besides a couple wooded dole rods, leather hammer, Brownell's screwdriver set etc that is carried in the range bag - I also have a used toothbrush - works very well under the star when using IMR4227.;)

[rondog]

Thanks Treetop! Just what I wanted to hear! I only shoot paper targets and water jugs, and have a serious yearning to use it for mule deer too. A Marbles tang sight is definitely on the parts list. I'll probably load a spread from 19 to 22 and see where the happiness lies.

44man - thanks, but I'm not sure what you mean about "heat". Are you talking about physical outdoor temperature affecting performance, or the gun itself heating up in competition?

I don't compete (don't even like to be around others with guns), and if it's hot out you'll find me cowering in the shade somewhere.

[white eagle]

I found a new liking for imr 4227 in my 30-30
shoots real good @19.5 gr with a dacron filler and NOE 165 gr cup points
I know its not a 45 colt but since I started this thread I have gotten rid of the
colt but still have the powder

[44man]

Both heat, kinda! Gun heat was the worst but summer temps don't help much either.
Seen guys all the time spraying in barrels with alcohol mix and using a fan between relays.
Velocity would get higher and higher starting with the second shot and I could see primer flattening get worse, no telling what final shot pressures were. My last shot had no seam at the primer left. First was normal.
Everyone was using 25 gr with a 240 bullet so I tried that and kept downloading with no change.
Why it did not do that in the max, I don't know. I got a new Ruger in max and went to a shoot with the new gun to just sight it, shot a 39 out of 40. It loved 4227! I shot many 40's with the Ruger and maybe some of the best revolver groups I ever shot.
I have no idea what happens in the .44! I used mag primers back then since I just started IHMSA and did not reach primer testing yet. Books called for them with all loads since it was a Magnum gun I guess.