308 Powder Coated Boolits

[jakharath]

Been reading here about powder coating boolits. About two years ago picked up a huge lot of reloading stuff and there were lots of cast but not lubed or gas checked 308 boolits. Have no idea what the lead actually is so have been setting on them for a while.

Powder coated 50 rounds in two batches with Harbor Freight red.

1st batch - cooked and then set for four days before sizing, then shot a few days after that
2nd batch - powder coated then sized soon after they were cooled then shot the next day

The boolits are 168 grain 2 lube grove gas checks. Needless to say, these didn't get lube or gas checks. I sized them at .308. Don't have .308 sizer die.

Red Boolits:
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Loaded them with 42 grains of 20ish year old IMR 4320 on a Dillon 550. Right at the starting amount for the 168 grain jacketed bullet weight. Just looking for a plinking load. Was a little worried that the gun wouldn't cycle.

So took them to the range this morning. Forgot that I had lent out my chrono... Ran about 20 rounds of 7.62 NATO thru "Vera" (Firefly reference) to test. Looked down the barrel - nice and shiny.

Next belted 5 of the red boolits.

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Vera ate them just fine. Cycled good. No feed or ejection issues. Barrel is still shiny. Ran 10 more and got the same results. Swabbed the barrel and just had smokeless powder residue.

Accuracy was pretty good, only shooting at the 25 yard rifle range. Can't set the tripod up on the 100 yard range because of the bench layout.

According to the book, the bullets should be running around 2460 fps. Without a chrono I don't know what they were actually doing. Saved a handful of these and will make a few a little hotter and will test when my chrono returns.

This will keep me in Vera food for a while. As soon as I can figure out a faster way to pc in a toaster oven.

[Echd]

Curing my first round of PCs ATM too!

Hope mine work half as well as yours.

[jakharath]

I need to run a bunch thru the belt fed. Get her good an hot then leave one in the chamber to see if the PC will melt.

[geargnasher]

Wow, no mercy eh? If the PC passes that test the rest of us ought to be fine! I'm assuming Vera fires from an open bolt, which would help prevent PC meltdowns.

Gear

[jakharath]

I wish I could afford an open bolt version. :( Mine's just a semi.

[geargnasher]

Anything that eats linked cartridges is still tons of fun. What temperature do you suppose the chamber would need to be for the PC to soften enough to smear the bore when fired? If this stuff makes it to the muzzle at 2400 fps without smearing, it must be pretty tough or at least slow to absorb heat.

You and Freightman have piqued my interest in this coating stuff since you two began shooting it in things with barrels longer than 4" and beyond 1200 FPS.

Gear

[popper]

jakharath Wow - no GC? I'm shooting GC 168 FN PCd (HF) from my LR-308 carbine. Low end jacketed 2240 fps, full load ~ 2400, no leading. Group opens up to ~2" @ 100 with the full load. My cycle rate can't be anything like a link fed but I use a 19 rnd mag and fire when I get back on target, maybe 5 sec. Next mag, for 40-60 rnds. Even the HG gets hot and no problems. I think when the chamber gets to 400F and you leave 1 there for a couple minutes it will get soft. You didn't cheat and fire copper before you checked for leading? I saw the bottom of the belt. Do you piglet coat or ES? Bases coated? Now I got to try unchecked. I'll be PC & H-T all this week.

[jakharath]

Popper - Didn't shoot any fmj after starting the pc. Started shooting and forgot to take a pic when I loaded it. I used a Harbor Freight gun to spray the red pc. The first batch was double coated. The second batch was single coated. For cheap blasting belt ammo I'm pretty sure the non-gas checked pc'ed boolits will be just fine.

Plan on single coating from now on. As long as it's a solid coat. You can make them prettier with two, but want cheap ammo for blasting with Vera. It's not like I dear hunt with her. I should take her hog hunting....

Will have to check on the temp/melting possible issue. Will need to go to private land to test. Was a the local range and they frown on my romping on the mg.

[popper]

Single coat works for me, are your bases coated? So far it looks like the fps is ~150-200 fps below book. But I'm shooting a 18" carbine. Should be a little faster if I turn down the gas so it unlocks a tad later. That is a belt fed semi-auto? Cool but I can't afford that much lead.
It's not like I dear hunt with her. I should take her hog hunting.... or a 12 ga w#2?

[shadowcaster]

That is way cool.. :cool:
I would love to see your results when pushed to the max. I have a 30.06 that I'm just itching try coated.

Shad

[cstrickland]

are your bases coated?

would like to know this as well in regards to jakharaths post !

[sly mantis]

Callahan full bore autolock, with a customized trigger double cartridge thorough gauge?

[xacex]

I don't know what kind of accuracy you get out of that belt fed, but I would size to 309, or 310 for best accuracy with the pc's boolits. It is kind of a strange lube really from what I have experienced. It acts like a jacket, but you have to treat it as a lube before loading. Those look pretty b.a. in a belt! I would love to see a can full with some bright green boolits in them.

[jakharath]

The bullets tested didn't have their bases coated. Ended up using a campher/deburring tool to 'boat tail' the ends of the bullets.

Made up some more using acetone and powder. Those coated the bases but I put it on a little thick and the ogive has some rough spots. Was trying to do a single thick coat that didn't work out so well.

xacex - The bullets were cast by someone else, and they are pretty small. Most go thru a 308 lubesizer die after pc-ing very easily (after putting some Dillon case lube on them). I would rather size them to 309 but #1 - I don't know if they would because I think they are made in a 308 mold and #2 - I can't find my 309 size die.

[jakharath]

Range Update:

Finally found some time to take Vera out and shoot some more PC'ed boolits out of her. I did not clean her from the first time shooting the PC'ed boolits. This time around I finished up the actual gun powder coated bullets and then started on the 'ugly' boolits coated with powder and acetone.

The Good: No leading or powder in the barrel or chamber. The acetone bullets were loaded much hotter than the powder coated ones.

The Bad: Looks like the MG42's booster and bearing were chopping the bullets. After 50 or so rounds had enough lead between the 'frame' and the bearing that the bearing was locked in place. Had to drive out the bearing and barrel on a concrete floor. It wasn't fun. The flash hider was full of lead also. Grrr.... Looks like no PC'ed bullets for Vera. :( Back to the land of FMJs.

[DanWalker]

VERY interested in this PC stuff if it can get me shooting boolits suitable for hunting, at full 308 velocities and power.

[popper]

MG42's booster and bearing Have no idea what those parts are, assume some of the feed section. I did have minor trouble with scraping in the AR till I tweaked the mag lips. I assume the problem is the belt feed & you have it down - what happens if you suspend it or have a flat feed?

[MUSTANG]

MG42's booster and bearing Have no idea what those parts are, assume some of the feed section. I did have minor trouble with scraping in the AR till I tweaked the mag lips. I assume the problem is the belt feed & you have it down - what happens if you suspend it or have a flat feed?


Following Pics are of a MG42 and a 1919A4 Booster.

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The Booster in these types of Machine Guns ( and those converted to be Semi-Auto Only) are designed to use the gas to cycle guns actions. From Wikopedia:


The recoil booster was first introduced in the Vickers machine gun of 1912. The Vickers, like the Maxim gun from which it was developed, uses a short recoil action. At firing, the recoil from the cartridge pushes the barrel backwards within the gun. This movement provides the energy required to extract and eject the spent cartridge, and compresses the recoil spring to complete the cycle. The muzzle booster increased the recoil transmitted to the barrel by directing some of the escaping gas into pushing the barrel back rather than letting it all expand outwards at the muzzle. This increased the initial velocity of the barrel and lock, providing more energy for the operation of the mechanism

I would postulate that the booster in jakharath's MG42 is shaving lead as it passes by. "Oversize" cast boolits, and those PC'd would be prone to shaving in a tight fitting booster of a MG42, 1919A4/A6, or other types. One day when I get my 1919A4 built, I too will try some Cast and PC'd boolits in it (I have ability to configure mine as .308/30-06/8mm).

[dilly]

The boolits are 168 grain 2 lube grove gas checks. Needless to say, these didn't get lube or gas checks. I sized them at .308. Don't have .308 sizer die.

How did you size them at .308 if you don't have .308 sizer die? I'm sorry I'm not sure what you mean here.

[jakharath]

I sized them with a .308 sizer die. Didn't have a larger sizer that was still in the 308 range. I'd imagine that anything sized larger would have leaded worse.

[dilly]

A lot of time undersized bullets cause leading. .308 is very much on the low end; I think it would be worth trying a bigger size.

[jakharath]

Interesting... I'll keep that in mind.