My turn for A3O3 at the range

[Wayne Smith]

My turn with the O3A3 at the range. This is the one that I put together with the CMP stock, needed a new higher sight blade, and was questioning what to put the other blade in to put it in the stock hole. Two pics below, both shot at 100yds with the open sights and brass new to the rifle (i.e. not fireformed to the chamber and neck sized). The second is the 311291 with 16gr 2400 behind it. This is a 3"x4.5" group. Have some work to do with that one. The first is 46.4 of RE15 under a 165gr HPBT. Four shots with a called low. Three shots in a true 1/2". Only work to do with this is to see if I can duplicate it with 4064 as I have more of that.

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Pic taken with my iPad and posted likewise. No tapatalk!

[Scharfschuetze]

Looks like you built a good one. Is it a Remington or a Smith Corona, a two groove or four groove barrel?

My best cast bullet O3A3 was a 2 groove believe it or not.

[Char-Gar]

10 shot groups give information about the rifle, load and shooter. Four shot groups do not.

[Wayne Smith]

This is a Remington. Yes Char Gar, I know. This shooting was intended to fire form brass to the chamber. These results are encouraging, though.

[Char-Gar]

Wayne, a good 03A3 will be able to produce 1.5 to 2 MOA cast bullet ten shot groups all day long. Some individual rifles will do better.

[45 2.1]

10 shot groups give information about the rifle, load and shooter. Four shot groups do not.


Wayne, a good 03A3 will be able to produce 1.5 to 2 MOA cast bullet ten shot groups all day long. Some individual rifles will do better.


Here we have two good statements.......... that are somewhat unqualified. It depends on what cadence they are shot at. A hunter will want to know where his first cold shot goes, so he takes 1 shot each morning to get a group of how ever many shots he wants (it isn't ten either). If you target shoot, you will find, if you fire fairly fast, that your barrel heats and causes your group to walk at either the 6th or 7th shot (thousands of groups thru dozens of rifles proved that to me). Very few rifles are stable if they are production rifles, not reworked,semi or custom made, frozen or likewise. Our friend here does not tell the cadence he shoots those all day groups at either. If you wait for the barrel to cool and keep that barrel at a constant lower temperature, it can shoot very well. You heat it up and things get larger. So, what are you trying to accomplish?....... a group: under battle fire conditions, a target group, a hunters group etc. One or more generations back from Charles, 50 shot groups were advocated (they posted the pictures and explained why). Their explanations were a whole lot better than what we here now on this forum with the one upmanship usually administered. Statements from anyone with how they were shot and the timing involved don't really tell you too much, there are many ways to cheat a groups size just by the way it is shot. So, which is better? It all depends on what your going to do, to which use, with that rifle...........

[Larry Gibson]

10 shot groups give information about the rifle, load and shooter. Four shot groups do not.

+1.

A cold shot out of the group far enough to miss a game animal at a practical range is a far different problem than shots "walking" out of a group after 5 shots as the barrel gets hot from too rapid shooting. If the hunter hasn't got the game in 3 shots let alone 5 shots and the has to reload to shoot more for the barrel to get hot enough to "walk" subsequent shots......the hunter is no longer a hunter but a shooter.....and a not very good one at that. .....

The fact is a 10 shot group fired at a moderate pace provides more and better information about the accuracy of the rifle with the load used by the shooter than any other method. Char-gar is absolutely correct.

Larry Gibson

[Char-Gar]

Larry..Ed Harris is trying to gin up interest in a vintage sporting rifle match over on CAB forums. Ed is working up loads with his vintage Winchester 54. He is using a plain base bullet and 25 shot groups to understand what is going on.

I am nibbling at the bait thinking about joining them. "There are no lucky ten shot groups."

I well remember my first MOA ten shot group for it only had nine rounds fired. It was 1961 and used my Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in 243 Win. I was using a load recommended by Col Whelen with a 75 grs. Sierra HP over Dupont 40/4895. I was watching the group after each shot through the Unertl spotting group, the bullets were chewing a ragged hole in the center of the target. When I got to the 10th shot, I was so excited, I lost my nerve and could not bear to fire that last round and spoil the group.

That was the day I learned that shooting was a much a head game and anything else. I kept that target for many years to remind me of that fact.

[Wayne Smith]

Wayne, a good 03A3 will be able to produce 1.5 to 2 MOA cast bullet ten shot groups all day long. Some individual rifles will do better.

That's assuming the shooter can do the same! I'm not that far along with this rifle yet. I'm not a competitive shooter, other than competing with myself. Unfortunately I don't get to the range nearly as often as I would like. It's just over an hour's drive one way to get to a range, either direction.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Wayne,

Your rifle and loads show promise to me. Keep up the good work. Next time out, shoot ten shot groups if you have the ammo and the time. Would love to see your results.

Best Regards,

Dave

[Larry Gibson]

Char-Gar

Sounds like an interesting match, might be fun. Hate to admit it but I've blown numerous excellent groups over the years as the pressure builds and I mentally watch the group instead of paying attention to the fundamentals of marksmanship while shooting the last shot or two. ........

Larry Gibson

[EDG]

Yes, I know what you are talking about. I put 10 rounds (so I thought) into 1" with a Browning 40-65 using the tang sight at 100 meters. I went down to pull my bragging target and found 1 round in the same place on the next target to the right. That shot would have been in the group too...

>>>That was the day I learned that shooting was a much a head game and anything else. I kept that target for many years to remind me of that fact. <<<

[Multigunner]

I've heard that pre WW2 military match shooters would leave their bore uncleaned throughout a shooting season though knowing the bore would be badly pitted and unserviceable for further use at the end of the season by corrosive primer salts. They wanted to insure that the first shot of any day had the same point of impact as the last shot of the previous days shooting. Cost of a new barrel was of little importance if it meant the difference in winning matches.
Some snipers like to clean a bore thoroughly but fire a fouling shot or two before going into action.

Since most old milsurps I've owned needed a good cleaning when I got them I clean the bore as best I can then fire five rounds and clean the bore again while the barrel is hot. By the time I finish the barrel is cool and pretty clean, so I repeat the process again and again. After a few trips to the range the old bore is about as clean as it ever will be, and I've sighted in so the first shot goes where I want it, I also have a good idea where any second or third shots would go.

[leadman]

I do as the OP when shooting a new to me rifle or barrel. Three shot groups are enough to tell me a range of powder charge to concentrate further efforts on. Also gives me fireformed brass to continue the refinement of the loads. When I have a couple good canidates I will load 10 or 15 rounds of each to determine which load to to continue with.
Before this last craze I used 5 shot groups just 'cuz that was one row in the cartridge plastic box. I have a good amount of components but am trying to stretch them.