Proper lubricant/lubrication of a mold ?

[capt.hollis]

I know I'm not properly lubricating my mold. My question is where to lubricate, and what to lubricate it with? I tried cleaning the mold with hoppes #9 , and it worked well but it's extremely hard to get off. .
Thanks guys .

[bangerjim]

I know I am gonna get a dozen negatives about this........(people tend to push hi-tech lubes)........but I use bees wax. Has worked for me for a long, long time. It lubes the pins, screws, and cavities very well. It has been used since bullits were invented.

Sure there is a bunch of exensive hi-tech polymer crapola lubes out there, but try beeswax. I apply just a tad to the cavities after they are up to temp. I take the normal marble-sized chunk I use for reducing, roll it between my fingers to form a thin rod and touch the screws, cavities and such. Don't overdo it.....it shoud run out of your mold! If it does, you used too much.

I do not have any sticking problems at all! I use aluminum molds........2 & 6 bangers.

bangerjim

[jmort]

Synthetic two stroke oil. Switched to Redline. Best of the best.

[capt.hollis]

So are you using it inside of your bullet cavities, or are you just using it on the face of the mold as you are casting ? I've been smoking mine with a match , is that the easiest way to keep the bullets from sticking in the mold. Thank you guys a bunch .
I know I am gonna get a dozen negatives about this........(people tend to push hi-tech lubes)........but I use bees wax. Has worked for me for a long, long time. It lubes the pins, screws, and cavities very well. It has been used since bullits were invented.

Sure there is a bunch of exensive hi-tech polymer crapola lubes out there, but try beeswax. I apply just a tad to the cavities after they are up to temp. I take the normal marble-sized chunk I use for reducing, roll it between my fingers to form a thin rod and touch the screws, cavities and such. Don't overdo it.....it shoud run out of your mold! If it does, you used too much.

I do not have any sticking problems at all! I use aluminum molds........2 & 6 bangers.

bangerjim

[MT Gianni]

I only lube touch points, the handle joint, the pins and sprue plate bottom and mold top. I use Bullplate but have used wax, 2 cycle synthetic oil and 50-50 Alox Beeswax. I do not recommend the 50-50. I only put lead in to a cavity with the exception being if it doesn't drop freely I coat it with a #2 pencil lead, burnish it with the wooden part of the pencil and clear it off with the eraser.

[Lead Fred]

Kroil

Been using it for years, all the molds drop great. Dont see any reason to stop now

[geargnasher]

Read this: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?137982-Mould-Lube-Instructions-(works-with-BullPlate-too)

I've taken to using Maxima K2 ester two-stroke oil, it's basically the same stuff Redline is but has less solvent content. Redline is about 25% paint thinner to help it blend with cold gas (all two-cycle premix oils have some solvent in them for this reason). The solvent vapors can condense inside the cavities and make wrinkly boolits for a few pours, but no big deal.

Gear

[jmort]

"Maxima K2 ester two-stroke oil"

I like Redline, but will have to check out the Maxima K

[geargnasher]

J., I have used both and there isn't much difference except K2 is only about 10% solvent and a good deal more expensive. I also use either one to sub for half the ATF in Ed's Red and reduce the mineral spirits by 1/8 part.

Gear

[MtGun44]

Boolit lube is widely recommended (NRA 50-50) and burns into a nasty residue that
makes things worse. I would GUESS that beeswax would also do this, since most lube
is about 50% beeswax, but have never tried it plain, so not certain. One user above
is satisfied with the results, but I won't be trying it because I have a fantastic lube
already.

I am certain that Bull Plate Lube works fantastically well and leaves zero residue.
Also, if you lightly coat the top of the mold and bottom of sprue plate, it will
eliminate lead smears and actually remove any pre-existing lead smears
over a casting session.

Click on the Bull Shop link or PM him for info on getting Bull Plate Lube.

Bill

[jmort]

gearnasher,

Just read more reviews about synthetic two-stroke oil than any sane person should read. The K2 has 15% solvent and I don't doubt the Redline has 25%. Regardless, there are a number of highly recommended products, K2, Klotz, Motul, Bel-Rey, AMSOIL, Redline, Royal Purple, and on and on, and I will probably get the K2 next time. Within reason, price not critical as so very little is needed. Thanks for the info, it got me to digging deeper and the K2 looks good.

[dromia]

I use Bullplate for two reasons.

Firstly it just plain works as advertised and leaves no residue, carbon build up or staining of the mould and secondly I have a multiple lifetimes supply from all the NOE moulds I buy along with my original Bullplate purchase when Dan first brought it out.

[btroj]

I am currently using Ester-100 refrigeration oil from Carquest. Works as well as Bullplate for me and seems to last a bit longer.

Why? Because I have a quart bottle for lube making and wanted to see how well it works. Worked well enough to not stop.

[capt.hollis]

Where do I get the K2? Thank all you guys for the awesome responses . I've never seen such an informative site like this one . Everyone is so willing to help!!

[geargnasher]

gearnasher,

Just read more reviews about synthetic two-stroke oil than any sane person should read. The K2 has 15% solvent and I don't doubt the Redline has 25%. Regardless, there are a number of highly recommended products, K2, Klotz, Motul, Bel-Rey, AMSOIL, Redline, Royal Purple, and on and on, and I will probably get the K2 next time. Within reason, price not critical as so very little is needed. Thanks for the info, it got me to digging deeper and the K2 looks good.

Ha Ha! You have no idea about sanity and product data sheets unless you've been following some of us certifiable nutjobs on the Extreme Lube quest thread! BTW, you're absolutely correct on the the K2 solvent percentage, I remembered it wrong. Redline, IIRC, doesn't publish the solvent content of theirs, I determined it by boiling off the solvent and measuring the difference in volume, something we needed to determine for accurate oil content in some lube formulas.

Maxima K2, Motul 800 2T, and Redline's ester two-stroke oils are all polyolester-based lubes, Amsoil and many of the other synthetics are polyalphaolefin-based, and most of the "blends" or standard oils are hydrotreated, hydrocracked petroleum oils. The difference between the three for the purpose of mould lubrication are viscosity index, film strength, polarity (affinity for hot metal), burn point, and evaporation rate. The ester oils are supreme in all aspects, but oddly seem to need more frequent application than the polyalphaolefin synthetics. Not sure why, but I think it has to do with wicking and spreading out, whereas the PAOs tend to stay put a little better.

Bottom line is this is really splitting hairs, don't go out of your way just to buy K2 when you can get a pint of AC ester oil at the local auto parts house for half the price, or any other good synthetic two-stroke oil of any flavor at your local outdoor sports center. It all works fine, and a WHOLE lot better than Alox/beeswax boolit lube.

Gear

[btroj]

And that AC ester oil works awesome.

[MtGun44]

btroj,

Tell me briefly about using AC ester oil in boolit lube. Mix with beeswax? How much? What else?
Any special mixing issues, or just heat in dbl boiler and mix?

Thanks

Bill

[geargnasher]

Bill, think sodium brick grease. We came up with a lube series called "TnT", for "Thick and Thin", it's a blend of two ester oils and Ivory soap. Take a small (3.1 ounce) bar of Ivory, slice it up and crumble the pieces in a pot, add three level tablespoons of K2 ester oil and three level tablespoons of automotive AC ester oil. Simmer at 300F until it quits foaming, then crank the heat until it all melts into a thin liquid (lots of smoke). Cool while stirring, I like to use a pan of water to quench the bottom of the pot. Beware, it takes about 475F to get it all liquified, and it will burn you like molten linotype. Also beware the steam explosion when quenching and stirring. If you don't stir the mix while cooling it will be crumbly. This makes an excellent all-weather, melt proof, freeze proof, pistol lube. Keep the pressure below 20K psi in your loads or it will begin to dump brown/black fouling in the first part of your barrel and accuracy will be poor. But if you store your ammo in a hot trunk for days on end, it won't melt, and won't leak oil into your powder. It will also shoot quite well when frozen.

Gear

[btroj]

Bill, TnT is a great handgun lube. My 44 mag and 45 ACP both do well with it. Haven't noticed a buildup in the 44 mag like Gear mentioned but I haven't run lots of hot loads thru it with that lube.

It needs heat and pressure to run thru a Star. I crank my Lyman heater all the way up, I know it isn't going to melt! Stays on bullets very well. Little residue left in barrel, not much smoke either.

[dragon813gt]

And that AC ester oil works awesome.

My concern with that oil is that's extremely hydroscopic. The bottles are useless to the trade once they've been opened. You use it then and toss the rest. The oil does not give up any moisture it absorbs under vacuum like mineral oil does. I'm sure it has a saturation point. I also hate the refrigeration oils. They cause my skin to break out quickly. Not that you're bathing in the stuff. But I personally don't like handling them.

[geargnasher]

Polyolesters aren't very hygroscopic (with a "G"). You're probably thinking of the polyalkyleneglycol refrigeration lubricants. The sodium stearate thickener will absorb its weight in water, but not corrode metals. We beat that to death on another thread a couple of months ago. I personally have about 30 corrosion tests going on (according to ASTM d-849) and have only seen issues with some of the beeswax-containing lubricants, the soap lubes otherwise produce 1a results even after a year.

Gear

[dragon813gt]

POE oils used with certain refrigerants such as 410A will not give up the moisture they absorb under vacuum. This is a known problem in our industry. It was a real pain when you could only buy it 5 gallons at a time.

I just hate getting that oil on my skin. It causes issues a lot faster then regular mineral oils. I honestly don't know what their full name is. It's of no concern because I have to use what the manufacturer gives me for warranty reasons. And I always screw up hygroscopic ;)

[btroj]

I'm not servicing a refrigeration system, I am lubing a mould. What is relevant in one arena may not crossover to the other.
I have used this stuff for a few months now. My moulds sit in my attached garage where the humidity gets quite high at times. No signs of any corrosion at all.

[capt.hollis]

Guys the Ester c oil I find is in a vacumed can . Is that what y'all are referring to?

[geargnasher]

No. Pint plastic bottle with a foil seal under the screw cap, similar to brake fluid container, right next to the PAG and mineral ac oils on the shelf at the autoparts store.

Gear

[btroj]

http://i1348.photobucket.com/albums/p733/Btroj/b8a1a0ef6f285285481ddc4c4ff4ea64_zps723653e7.jpg (http://s1348.photobucket.com/user/Btroj/media/b8a1a0ef6f285285481ddc4c4ff4ea64_zps723653e7.jpg.h tml)
This is the stuff I bought. The yellow dye isn't Important for our needs.

[capt.hollis]

Thank you very much... I will be going to Oriley Auto parts tomorrow to see if they have it . I just bought some miniature dropper bottles today at the hobby craft store today , so ill be ready to roll here in a few days with the new 6 cavity mold that just came in . Hope the handles will be in tmrw. That's one thing I forgot when ordering lol.

[btroj]

A q tip damp with this stuff will lube many moulds. A light, very, very light film is all you want. Too much and it gets in the cavities, that leads to many poor castings until the oil burns out of the cavity.

Did I mention to use just a tiny bit?

[geargnasher]

Those needlenose squeeze bottles are great, I bought a sack of them for a couple bucks and use them for all sorts of stuff around the gun room. I'm using ester oil to lube my presses now, it doesn't evaporate or gum up. Might not be great for some of the plastic parts, so I just use it on metal.

O'reilly's sells AC-Pro brand oils with Ice 32 (whatever that is), that's one of the things I've used.

Gear

[mike333h]

J., I have used both and there isn't much difference except K2 is only about 10% solvent and a good deal more expensive. I also use either one to sub for half the ATF in Ed's Red and reduce the mineral spirits by 1/8 part.

Gear

So what I am gathering from the 2-cycle oils is the lower the solvent content the better? According to the MSDS on this oil it is only 1-5% solvent. I have quite a bit of this at home so I may give it a try.

link to msds http://www.amsoil.com/msds/ato.pdf

[btroj]

Sorta. Solvents burn off so they don't have as much good stuff in them. The base stock is more important. An ester based full synthetic gives a better lube film and it can often last a bit longer. K2 is such a 2 stroke.

In the end about any 2 stroke can work, some just do a bit better than others.

[geargnasher]

Like I explained before, the solvents in the two-stroke oils gas-off and can coat the mould cavities, causing wrinkles for a few casts. Use solvent-free oil such as Btroj recommended to avoid this, or cook off the solvents from a two-cycle oil for better results. This goes for Bullplate, too.

Gear

[geargnasher]

So what I am gathering from the 2-cycle oils is the lower the solvent content the better? According to the MSDS on this oil it is only 1-5% solvent. I have quite a bit of this at home so I may give it a try.

link to msds http://www.amsoil.com/msds/ato.pdf

1-5% of two different solvents. MSDS are not the place to get the best info on a product's contents. You will be pleased with it as a mould lube.

Gear