Winchester 64 in 32 Spl

[TXGunNut]

Was sorely tempted last night at the local library, Cabelas Gun Library, that is. They had a decent Model 64 with a half magazine in 32 WS that caught my eye. Receiver had little finish but the blue was good elsewhere. Built in 1940, has the rear sight with the tiny notch at the bottom, only "open" sights I can use these days. Bore was awesome and the action was pretty special as well, the bolt moved like the slide on a custom 1911. Tight and very smooth. Downside was a a small bit of wood missing from the buttstock on the left side just behind the trigger. Had a crappy repair attempt, something black & sticky. Stock had a varnish finish as well, I didn't find it very attractive. Stock could be repaired & refinished, wood grain was nice enough.
Overall the gun intrugued me. I'm looking for a 30-30 project but I keep running into 32 WS rifles. Gun was overpriced @ $1399 and they didn't have much room to bargain on it but I'll keep an eye out for another one. Hated to leave that one in the rack but my hunting rig needs new tires and some serious front end work, old girl was pretty nice and got me thinking about the 64.

[Scharfschuetze]

I too have been curious about the 32 Special. I've cast and loaded for the 30/30 for years, but the Thirty-Two should be interesting with its slower rifling pitch and slightly larger calibre.

I picked up a Model 64 32 Special a few months ago at a friend's gun shop. It was made in 1942-47 (factory records seem to be missing or confused for this time frame) and I've been slowly getting it ready for a go at the range.

I've got most everything collected now from a Lyman 66 sight and 32 cal gas checks, but I'm just waiting on a 32 cal RCBS 170 grain mould which will be available in a month or so from a friend and member here. I'm quite anxious to get it on paper and see what it'll do.

I'd like to hear about favorite loads and tips for the 32 WS from other members here and this seems like a good place to post 'em. Post away!

I know that firearm values change from location to location, but $1399 seems a bit high to me too given the condition you describe. Perhaps it was best to leave it on the rack. This one was only 60% of what Cabelas was asking for the example that you describe.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I had a 64 .32 WS back in the 80's. Got it at a bargain price because there was a deer scene carved in the right side of the stock. Turned out it was done by an old ex-girlfriend's father. It was tastefully done, but ruined the rifle for any collector value.

It shot well with factory ammo, I never did reload or cast for .32 WS, but I would think it would be a better critter-gitter with cast than a .30WCF. They're beautiful rifles that feel good, carry well, and shoot right.

[BruceB]

In my two .32 Specials (Marlin M36 and Winchester M64) the best load to date with the RCBS 32-170 was 31 grains of IMR 4350..... yes, 4350!

As to value and pricing, I think the Cabela's Gun Library crew was smoking something illegal. I bought my M64 at Scheel's (Reno) a few years back for less than half that price, and it's in about 95% condition, if not BETTER. Wood is perfect, and there's just a tiny bit of blue wear under the receiver.

The Marlin Model 36 has a non-"standard" bore. It's twist is 1 in 10", and the groove diameter is undersize at about .319". On contacting Marlin about this, they confirmed those dimensions for rifles built in the mid- to late-'40s..... why they were made that way, they could not explain.

Enjoy the .32!

[376Steyr]

I had what looked like a mint 64 .32 Special at my local gun shop with a $999 tag on it. It got away before I could convince myself I really had to have it. Next one I saw elesewhere was a very very used one for $750. Didn't get that one either. Someday...

[bob208]

I have a 64 deluxe which means it has factory checkering and sling swivels . it is in .32spl. I use the lyman 165 gr. g.c. bullet for the 8mm in my .32's it works well.

[TXGunNut]

.32 is a sweet cartridge, I have a 69 vintage 94 in .32WS that is one sweet little plinker and could be a hunter with the RD 323-170(180) boolit. I have too many hunting rifles, too few hunts.
Agreed on the Cabelas pricing strategy, Bruce, but the ugly truth is that it works. They have a formula based on acquisition cost that sets a minimum price for the item and often have a certain amount of bargaining room built in. Sometimes they put too much in a gun and the resulting price is too high for an informed buyer. It happens and if you get to know the guys in there they'll tell you how it works. In that case they just wait for someone that doesn't know or care about the current market price and they pay what Cabelas wants. They have a rather high overhead but it brings in high quality guns, I enjoy browsing in the local Library.
Every now and then they have a gun that I want for a price I can live with and it pays to get to know the folks in the Library. Most of them know I'm a serious buyer and that helps. I've gotten some good deals in there, this 64 would not have been one of them. Sure had a sweet action, tho.

[TXGunNut]

Nice rifle, Scharfschuetzer! That's what I'm looking for. I'm using 8.5 grs Universal under the RD boolit for a plinking load, 27 grs RL7 under the same boolit is where I'm at for a hunting load. Suspect a 3031 load is worth developing as well.

[BruceB]

......the resulting price is too high for an informed buyer..

I enjoy browsing in the local Library.

Every now and then they have a gun that I want for a price I can live with and it pays to get to know the folks in the Library. . I've gotten some good deals in there, this 64 would not have been one of them. Sure had a sweet action, tho.

Well, I surely enjoy MY visits to Cabela's, too. Only problem is that I only get there maybe every year or so. That will change in the near future as I will be re-locating to Reno soon.

My '50s Marlin 336 in .35 Remington came from Cabela's; it had a few cosmetic challenges but a VERY short time soon saw it in about 90%-plus condition. Also, a lot of my shooting gear and various outdoor equipment come from the same place. They've treated me rather well for quite a while, and I'll be going back.

Having Cabela's AND Scheels in the same town is almost "an embarrassment of riches".... it would be easy to start feeling spoiled.

Thanks for your comments.

[OverMax]

For a wall hanger the model 64 is a sweet one for that effort. Different sort of looking rifle with its short magazine tube and pistol grip shotgun stock. Especially if you can find a clean one. Hm.~~ Just looking at mine I realize it hasn't its front site hood. Anyone know where I can buy a replacement hood?

[kenyerian]

My maternal grandfather's favorite caliber was 32 and he had several different versions. One was a 64 in 32 special and he carried an old Colt Police Positive .32 Cal. He also had a Stevens Tip Up 32 Rim Fire he was born in 1890 and passed away in 1977. My brother has his Stevens but no one knows what happened to the 64 or the colt. I've been looking at the 64's but haven't found the right one yet.

[Scharfschuetze]

Overmax.

Check for them at Midway. I just got two replacement sight hoods that duplicate the original factory hoods for a couple of my Pre-64 model 70s. While looking at those, I noted that you could also get one for the Model 94.

Search for: "Front Sight Hood"

[Geobru]

I picked up a 64 in 32 special about 6 months ago at the local candy store. It was definitely not a safe queen. One side of the receiver showed the efforts that someone made to buff off a rough spot with steel wool. Otherwise it is untouched and is an honest old gun. The real payoff came when I shot it. Turns out that it has a 3.5 pound trigger pull, which makes it an outstanding gun for hunting and off hand shooting. To me, the 64 is an elegant rifle.

I paid 5 C notes for that gun. 1399 is too high in my opinion. The local gun shop sold a deluxe model for $1200 a year or so ago, and that one was in great shape. Around here, you just don't see that many 64s.

[TXGunNut]

Having Cabela's AND Scheels in the same town is almost "an embarrassment of riches".... it would be easy to start feeling spoiled.-BruceB


Next time you're in Scheels please let them know there's more than a few Texans who could use a little "spoiling". From what I've heard I'd love to have one of their stores nearby. I even have a few good locations in mind, of course. ;-)

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Scharfschuetzer;2363088]Overmax.

Check for them at Midway. I just got two replacement sight hoods that duplicate the original factory hoods for a couple of my Pre-64 model 70s. QUOTE]

My M64 did not have the hood, and I didn't realize that it was supposed to have one. That is about the ONLY flaw it had, and I didn't even know until now!

It's a moot point in my case, because in deference to my old eyeballs I installed a Lyman 17 front sight....it looks like it was born to be mounted on that rifle. Now, I wonder what I did with the original front sight....it's probably in one of my "parts cabinets" (aka junk boxes).

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=TXGunNut
Next time you're in Scheels please let them know there's more than a few Texans who could use a little "spoiling". QUOTE

I'll sure try!

Texas is pretty small (smile), but still..... what part of the Lone Star State did you have in mind? Scheels is actively expanding, so just maybe....

Customer service, at least at the Reno store, is absolutely fantastic. Cabela's service is fine, but Scheels puts them in the shade. (It doesn't take very many beautiful young women wishing one a good day and asking how they may help, to improve the mood of even such old buzzards as NVCurmudgeon and myself.)

[Scharfschuetze]

BruceB,

No issues there. I've got Lyman 17s with the blade insert on a couple of Marlins, a 1903, a Pre-64 Model 70 match rifle and even an H&R Trapdoor Officer's Model.

What I will do with the Model 64 though is install a blade front sight (just came in from Midway) and then file it to sit center of the factory sight hood. With a Lyman 66 rear aperture sight, I'll then be able to zero it up well and enjoy a military type sight picture which has always been my go to set up for iron sight shooting. Of course the original front bead sight and rear sight will go into the dedicated 50 cal ammo can (M2A) for safe keeping. That can holds more than a few factory sights after I've removed them to install the above sight set up.

[jtaylor1960]

I have a model 64 in 32 spl. made in 1933.It is a little rough but is tight and shoots very well.With a peep sight at 50yds. it shoots full power cast loads into about a 1inch group.that is with the Ranch Dog bullet.

[TXGunNut]

Texas is pretty small (smile), but still..... what part of the Lone Star State did you have in mind? Scheels is actively expanding, so just maybe....BruceB

Metromess, prefer the northern edge. The closer to the Red River the better. Houston already has Carter Country and we lost our Sportsman's Warehouse awhile back. I like Cabelas but they don't seem to take reloading very seriously.

[358 Win]

http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/bobddville/Gun%20Collection%20Photos/IMAG0023.jpg (http://s824.photobucket.com/user/bobddville/media/Gun%20Collection%20Photos/IMAG0023.jpg.html)
http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz169/bobddville/Gun%20Collection%20Photos/IMAG0024.jpg (http://s824.photobucket.com/user/bobddville/media/Gun%20Collection%20Photos/IMAG0024.jpg.html)

The two targets shown were both shot with my Marlin 336SC in .32 Win Special from 1957. First target is my Ranch Dog boollet 323- 175 cast of wheel weight metal and weighs 182gr fully dressed. It is five shots at 50 yards. The rifle wears a Leupold VXI 2x7x36 scope. It was shot with my standard target load of 16.0 grains of Alliant 2400, sparked by a FED215 primer for 1744fps.

Second target is my old RCBS 08-170 boollet cast of the same alloy as above and it too weighs 182 grains fully dressed. Group is also five shots at 50 yards using the same 336SC from 1957. This load is my high performance load using 38.5 grains of H-LVR powder set ablaze with a CCI250 primer and the speed is a chronographed velocity of 2300fps. I have never been able to come close with that kind of accuracy in any of my 30-30's.

358 Win

[Fugowii]

I picked up a pre-64 Win in .32 special a couple of years ago for $280 that included two boxes of factory ammo and came
with the Scout scope. Guy just wanted to get rid of it. Condition is excellent. A couple of minor, but honest, dings/scratches
but bluing and bore are fabulous. Can't believe I finally got a great deal on a gun. Usually I'm the one taking the beating
and giving out the good deals. Shooting the RCBS 32-170 out of it. Was using 5744 but now in the process of switching
to 2400. Just couldn't make the 5744 work.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/BP_2006/Win94.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i227/BP_2006/09_05_2010001a.jpg

[Scharfschuetze]

Is that one of the Redfield scopes from the 60s? I've sure looked for one in complete condition, but all I seem to occasionally see is the scope sans mount for the the 94. As I recall, they came together in the same package. When younger it was no big deal, but with aging eyes that scope looks like just the ticket. It's smaller size and weight make it perfect for the lever action rifles.

[smkummer]

I used to load for a buddies Win. 71 348 with the pistol grip and short magazine tube. After handling that configuration, I have a liking for a model 64 as it feels really good shooting and carrying. I was outbid several times trying to get one, then snag a pre-64 94 for one heck of a bargain. Still would love to find a 64 but I believe the word is out. I may settle for a post 64 model 64 just to have one.

[Fugowii]

Is that one of the Redfield scopes from the 60s? I've sure looked for one in complete condition, but all I seem to occasionally see is the scope sans mount for the the 94. As I recall, they came together in the same package. When younger it was no big deal, but with aging eyes that scope looks like just the ticket. It's smaller size and weight make it perfect for the lever action rifles.

Yup, it's a 2X, PN or Model or SN Z11001. I don't know what the number means. The mount is a Redfield M294.

[Scharfschuetze]

Thanks Fugowii. That'll give me some ammo for an internet search.

[-D-]

Is that a 1" diameter scope?

[Scharfschuetze]

I'm pretty sure that it's a 3/4" tube. That's one of the reasons I want to find one as they weigh very little and shouldn't disrupt the balance of the rifle all that much.

[salvadore]

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/DSCN0524_zps5354dd89.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/DSCN0524_zps5354dd89.jpg.html)


http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm297/farcla/DSCN0238_zps727d5b66.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/farcla/media/DSCN0238_zps727d5b66.jpg.html)

I bought this 94 as a cast bullet gun. Tried RDs, the lovern 8mm, and a Lee's170 8mm. When I loaded the bullet base to the end of the case neck I kept running into the rifling. Got me one of accurate molds 323 160gc and all is well. Oh yeah had a gunsmith in Gooding shorten the barrel to get rid of the ramp front so I could use a lyman receiver sight without too much elevation, and the shooter is really handy now.

[TXGunNut]

Nice rifle, Sal! Good to hear from you. Only mould I have right now is the RD, need to get back to that project, just cast up a fresh batch.
Try about 14 grains of 2400, Fugowii. Used to shoot with a guy from CO that had personalized plates "FUGAWI". Always wondered how he got that one past the DOT folks.

[salvadore]

Hey Tex, nice to see you. I've been using 4198 and was warned away from 5744..Do you have any idea what 14 grains would get me with a 160 grain bullet? Oh yeah, what is a Fugowii? Its not like where the fugowii? I miss agarn.

[TXGunNut]

Oh yeah, what is a Fugowii? Its not like where the fugowii? -Salvadore

Short version, it's a fictional Native American tribe with hereditary issues with navigation. Great joke, well told to me by a shooter from CO who happens to be a Native American.
I'm playing with Universal and 2400 in my 32 WS. It's pretty much a plinker and those powders seem to offer economy and accuracy, just need a PB boolit to save the cost and fuss of a gas check.

[salvadore]

Oh, I thought it was a take off from F troops Hekawis as in where the hekawi.
I finally found the accurate mold that works just fine for me and have a 32/20 load for my OP 115 gr PB over 3.5gr 231 I will be trying in my 94 Marlin for economy. Good luck on the load Tex.

[TXGunNut]

14 grs 2400 is getting us about 1600fps under the 170 gr Ranch Dog boolit in 30-30, suspect will get the same in 32 WS. I have a 32-20 mould that drops a nice little SWC boolit, looking forward to trying it in my 30-30. I've tried 27 grs RL7 in both 32 WS and 30-30 but I get a pretty annoying wobble at 25 and 50 yds and missing holes @ 100. Groups seem to be coming together up until that point. Alloy in the 32 WS is HT 50/50 w/ a touch of tin, 30-30 is ACWW. Both do very well @ 1600 with the 2400 or Universal load.
I guess it is a takeoff from the F Troop, must have missed that. :wink:

[Shuz]

[QUOTE=BruceB;2362415]Well, I surely enjoy MY visits to Cabela's, too. Only problem is that I only get there maybe every year or so. That will change in the near future as I will be re-locating to Reno soon.

WHAT? Leaving Winnemucca? What are all the local shooters gonna do for advice and help?

[smokeywolf]

Dad had a model 64 in 219 Zipper, but the barrel was bad (warped when it warmed up) and he wasn't gunsmithing anymore. Sold it around 1980.

We had a Mount Fugowii behind one of the Sheriff sub-stations. Legend said that the reason you could never find the Fugowii indians was because even they didn't know where they were.

smokeywolf

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=BruceB

WHAT? Leaving Winnemucca? What are all the local shooters gonna do for advice and help?

Yes, I will be setting up bachelor digs somewhere in Reno once we get everything squared-away here, and hopefully after I learn to get a bit more mobile with my "new" left leg. Due to ongoing issues with my remaining foot, so far I've been unable to re-learn the art of walking so I'm still confined to the wheelchair. I had what I HOPE was the final surgery on the foot on Sept 13 and will see the surgeon tomorrow for a follow-up.

After 47 years my wife can't stand me any longer so we hope to get through an "amicable" divorce. She's seen me through three cancers, two strokes, major heart surgery, and now all these diabetes-related amputation troubles. She's served her time.

Gonna be VERY STRANGE, doing for myself after all this time. It would be a huge help to be able to walk again to help me along, but I reckon I'll be moving regardless. Maybe I'll have to find an apartment with disabled access.

NVCurmudgeon has been a staunch helper and companion through all this; I expect that we'll now become even closer 'shooting buddies' when I don't live 170 miles down the highway..... that will be one bright spot in a very gloomy outlook.

I suppose the local shooters will simply have to look out for themselves.

[Fugowii]

Is that a 1" diameter scope?


I'm pretty sure that it's a 3/4" tube. That's one of the reasons I want to find one as they weigh very little and shouldn't disrupt the balance of the rifle all that much.

Yup, 3/4" tube. When I put up my user name I was suffering from drain bamage and couldn't come to any clarity on a clever handle, hence the Fugowii user name. It has no relevance to anything at all. Best of luck to you in the future Bruce!

Thanks for the 14 gr of 2400 tip TX. Sounds like a great place to start.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks for the 14 gr of 2400 tip TX. Sounds like a great place to start. -Fugowii

Hope it works out for you, will be loading a few myself when I recover from my weekend. My shooting buddy chrono'd that load in an 1898 94 in 30-30, very low sd and good accuracy. Fired some in my 2008 vintage 336 Saturday and it likes them as well. Can't wait to try it in my 94 in 32WS, should have a little more zip than the Universal load I've been piddling with.

[Kansas Ed]

About a year ago, I picked up a 26" Take down standard Winchester rifle in .32 Spec. at Tulsa. The bore was fantastic. Until this weekend, I hadn't shot it. Saturday found me at the farm for an all day range session which included the .32. The rifle dates to 1923. I had four loads prepped...two with the J-bullets and two with the Lyman 323470 170gr Loverin. The key was to find something the rifle showed as promising. As it turned out...it liked everything!

The J bullets got 3031, and the Loverin got 5744. At 50 yards with the factory flat top sights and fine front bead, I was really impressed with the rifle.

The Loverin bullet in front of 21.0gr of 5744 shot right at an inch with my tired eyes and weary shoulder (I'd been shooting the 50-100 prior). Velocity was 1956 over the chrony at 10'. Alloy was 20:1 with Gator checks.

Backing off to 20.0 gr of 5744 opened up the group another inch and the velocity (for sake of taking notes) was 1873fps . The J-bullets didn't perform quite as well with the 3031, but more than adequate for hunting purposes...but why go that route when the Loverin worked so great? But it was a testing session none the less, and I shot all 40 rounds I had loaded up. Deer season this year will find me carrying that rifle with the Loverin bullet. Next I need to try it in my wifes carbine :-o

Ed

[Kansas Ed]

Yup, 3/4" tube. When I put up my user name I was suffering from drain bamage and couldn't come to any clarity on a clever handle, hence the Fugowii user name. It has no relevance to anything at all. Best of luck to you in the future Bruce!



Hmmm, I was going to ask if it had anything to do with this group....Ed

82658

[jonp]

Is that one of the Redfield scopes from the 60s? I've sure looked for one in complete condition, but all I seem to occasionally see is the scope sans mount for the the 94. As I recall, they came together in the same package. When younger it was no big deal, but with aging eyes that scope looks like just the ticket. It's smaller size and weight make it perfect for the lever action rifles.
I've got an old Redfield that came on a pre64 300H&H I bought several years ago for $300. Like a fool I got rid of the rifle but I managed to keep the scope. It has a bracket inside to cover the 18in kill zone of an animal and a yardage indicator to tell how far away the animal is based on that. Came with several turrets to interchange based on the cartridge.

[Scharfschuetze]

Jonp,

Sounds like you have a Redfield "Accu track" scope. That's a fine piece of equipment. I used the military version, the ART I, many years ago. Damned shame about letting that Pre 64 300 H7H Magnum get away.

The scope we were referring to though was a scout scope that was marketed for lever action rifles. It was ahead of its time and apparently didn't sell too well as they were/are not seen very often.

[Larry Gibson]

Sounds like you have a Redfield "Accu track" scope. That's a fine piece of equipment.

+1 on that!

Still got both my AccuTrac's and still use them.

Larry Gibson

[jonp]

Jonp,

Sounds like you have a Redfield "Accu track" scope. That's a fine piece of equipment. I used the military version, the ART I, many years ago. Damned shame about letting that Pre 64 300 H7H Magnum get away.

The scope we were referring to though was a scout scope that was marketed for lever action rifles. It was ahead of its time and apparently didn't sell too well as they were/are not seen very often.

I was hoping someone would chime in and tell me what it is! Thanks for that. I have the original box and rings with it. I'm looking for and old rifle to put it on that looks "right" to me. I would love to find another 300H&H but I'm pretty sure it would be out of reach for me. The guy also sold me a Rem 700 .17Cal. Ton of boom. I really had no use for it so let it go also. Talk about both ends of the spectrum in rifle selection.
If I remember right the older gentleman wanted to get rid of everything as the people in Canada just made it too much a pain anymore and wanted them to go to a good home. I gave him $500 for both rifles, all his reloading gear and a tree stand. Used the rifle for a few years before getting rid of it but that decision still haunts me.

[Larry Gibson]

Burris also made a scout base for the M94 Carbine and scout scopes. Unfortunately they discontinued the base but still make scout scope.....very good ones at that. Pictures are of my M94 Carbine 30-30 with the 1 1/2X scout scope in the Burris base. An excellent scout set up.

Larry Gibson

836988369983700

[Scharfschuetze]

And a nice Lyman aperture sight for back up! Doesn't get much better than that.

[Larry Gibson]

Always nice to have back up! We are too far apart for you to have my back down here so the scope need "back up". Shot a couple rounds of 5 stand last week with my grandson down here....was windy again.....very humbling.........

Larry Gibson