Marlin 45-70 Where to start?

[horsesoldier]

I just picked up a 1978 model 1895 in 45-70 today.Its been used pretty well but with a williams peepsight and a 350 dollar price tag I could not pass it up.I have casted for black powder before but this will be my first casting for a modern rifle. I was thinking about a woods hunting load with a 405 grain flat nose boolit.I have read that unique is a good place to start.1200 to 1400 fps with a 405 grain projectile seems pretty formidable to me. Has anyone here used this load on deer?

[mroliver77]

I used a Lee 330 gr at 1100 - 1200fps on a deer. Boolit went right through and is still going somewhere I think. The deer run about 50 yards and was bled out and down. Very mild!
J

[horsesoldier]

Thats what I like to hear. I have in the past been overly concerned with velocity.I might want a flatter trajectory out 150 yards or so though. I will have to run the numbers and see what it looks like.

[Guido4198]

Where I hunt, 75 yds is a long shot and 100+ almost never happens.
With my 45/70 Guide Gun, I used a flat nose, hard cast Lee 400 over IMR 3031 running closer to 1500fps to kill a Whitetail from 30 yds. Entry through the brisket....full body penetration. Deer still ran 50 yds or so before falling over dead.

[Dean2]

400 grain bullet over 3031 doesn't kick a lot and will easily do 1500 fps. You may see a little leading at that speed with soft lead, which is what you want to use in hunting loads. It is more than enough to take deer, bear, moose and even buffalo cleanly. If you want faster and flatter I would suggest the 350 Hornady Round nose over 3031. It is an excellent performer at 45-70 velocities and will kill from small game to moose and the big bears very well. You can get that one really going, as high as 2200 fps out of a modern Marlin, or 2100 fps using Varget at much lower pressures, but at 1800 fps it is good to 200+ yards, doesn't kick too bad and kills quickly.

Flat shooting and 45-70 is kind of an oxymoron. Velocity doesn't really make a 45-70 all that much flatter shooting, recoil goes up noticeably as speed increases, recovery time back on target gets worse, and the 45-70 doesn't rely on speed to kill. The big hole that goes all the way through everything you shoot is what does the job. All you have to do is put the hole in the right place, and that is a lot easier with low recoil loads.

I shot a pile of bears with a 45-70 and found that 1500 fps per second kills as fast as 2100 fps at 250 yards and under, so your cast load using pure, or close, lead bullets should be a real good choice on deer.

[Nobade]

I would probably lean toward IMR4198 with a little dacron on top of it for loads like this for a more complete burn and less powder used, but agree with everything else. 45-70 just plain works for hunting.

-Nobade

[longbow]

I used to shoot a lot of Lyman 457124's out of mine ~ 385 gr. round nose. Never shot any critters with it though. I liked the 385 gr. better than 405 gr. Not sure why but it just seemed to shoot well and even with heavy loads recoil wasn't bad.

If I was doing it again, I think I would get a mould like the Lyman 330 gr. Gould HP. It was a popular hunting boolit in days gone by and being that light, recoil should be light and trajectory a little flatter for a ways than with heavy boolits.

I miss my old Marlin 1895 (1970's vintage). Sold it to help pay for college and never replaced it.

Longbow

[Skipper]

Pick up a mold, or buy some RanchDog 360's or the Lyman 330. Run them at about 1500' and never look back. They're murder on deer.

RanchDog:

80188

Lyman:

80189

[TXGunNut]

Pick up a mold, or buy some RanchDog 360's or the Lyman 330. Run them at about 1500' and never look back. They're murder on deer.

RanchDog:

80188

Lyman:

80189

+1 on the RD, still working on the Lyman. My loads are pretty tame as well, much over 1600 and my Guide Gun jams my thumb into my nose, rather distracting.

[bigted]

pet load for just putterin round.

1- rem cases 2.068 long.
2- cci 200 large rifle primers.
3- 34 grains RL-7 powder.
4- buffalo arms mold number 460400 throws a 409 grain .460 inch diameter flatnose boolit. that diameter is what werks best in my marlin.
5- SPG lube.
6- Lee factory crimp.
7- if you desire a full case and eeking out the most in accuracy ... I fill the case to a little over the spot where the base of a loaded boolit is going to set with cornmeal so as to compress the cornmeal just around a 16th or so when loaded to the crimp groove. this step is not required for every rifle so experiment with and without the cornmeal.

these are the shis nis for bumping around and they will prolly kill anything running or crawling in America. easy on shooter and rifle both.

[monge]

350-360gr sized to .460 26-27 gr of 2400 a tuffed of Dacron around 1600fps soft shooting and accurate! PM me and Ill give you my exact data

[aspangler]

I use the Lee 405 gr fn over 25 gr 2400 with a tuft of dacron and standard LR primer. 1450 chronographed and mild recoil about like a 20 ga. with light field load. Accurate to well over 200 and abut as flat shooting as you could want with the "old" 45-70.

[unclogum bill]

I have shot my fair share of 45-70 rounds . I may be wrong but isn't that the one they put out with "micro rifling "?. When I shot 405 cast they flew every where. A 405 jacketed bullet worked well. As you build hotter loads the recoil made it less fun to shoot. Newer version had well, normal barrel rifling and thus shooting cast should be easier.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was going to comment on the Micro Groove Rifling. Gas checks might be a good idea.

If I was you I would start out with 300gr boolits and 25 gr of 5744. This should be about 1200fps Then work up in speed until it gets uncomfortable.

When you step up to 400gr class boolits I would start t 25 gr of 5744 and work up until you can't stand any more.

The Marlins are all in the 7-7.5lb range empty. Shooting a gun like this with loads in the 1600 fps range will get your attention. It is very comparable to shooting a 1 oz slug from a 12 ga shotgun.

I did this two weeks ago with my Mossberg 500 and some Federal slugs at 1610 fps. I just got back from my Chiropractor yesterday for the second time to put my right shoulder and ribs back in place! No Ship! I was not prepared in any way for as violent a recoil impulse as was generated.

A slug like this is capable of taking any game animal in NA ! A one oz. slug weighs 437 gr. So a 45-70 with a 400-435 gr boolit at 1600 fps is exactly the same except will exhibit better penetration which makes it suitable for any thing on Planet Earth.

I could take a hit from my shotgun with one of those slugs if I was standing and there was a really good reason to shoot one. However I couldn't shoot 3-4 and be able to hit anything. It is just too much. I hit the target with my first shot and missed the second and called time! (3 gun shoot)

When you consider that the .45-70 had taken every game animal on earth with factory loads in the 1100-1300fps range before the turn of the 20th century, it makes you wonder why we now need to go faster.

More power doesn't do the job, the big hole all the way thru does the job.

Randy

[unclogum bill]

Spoken true and to the point, I sold mine off because the recoil was making me run backwards when I set it off. I do think the name Guide Gun fit, but for anything else , well there's better. And if I needed a guy to back me up a 12 gauge pump would be a better choice. Surprising what one can do with one with rifle sights and slug, double ought , slug.

[Rick Hodges]

Ranch Dog 350 (or Hornady 350FP or RN) over H322 for 1800 fps. or a Rem. 300 JHP over the same powder at 1880. Both shoot flat enough to be point blank to 150 yds. (never more than 3" high or 3" low) Both are like "Thor's Hammer" on whitetail deer. Size the cast to .460" Boollits over 405 gr. can be problematic in a Marlin. They don't want to feed.

I recently picked up a Ranch Dog 300 but have not developed a load yet. I find the relatively lighter projectiles easier on the shoulder while trying to maintain reasonably flat trajectory to 150 yds. or so. I have never felt the need for anything heavier.

[Randy C]

:coffeecom

[Rick R]

300 - 405 grain boolits loaded with Unique or 2400 are capable on deer and recoil like a 20 gauge. 350 - 430gr boolits over IMR4198, Varget or RL-7 will help send your Dentist's kid to college. :D

I bought an NOE mold that drops a copy of Ranch Dog's 350gr boolit and that may be the only thing my GG ever sees again...

It's all in what you want to do with that Marlin.

[maglvr]

Always keep in mind........ the .45 COLT came to be, because the army requested a pistol that would "shoot THROUGH a horse at
100 yards"
and that was a 255-260gr soft lead bullet at a mere 900fps.
Go UNIQUE and never look back!

[horsesoldier]

Thanks for all of the replies guys. I am meeting up with a friend this week and we are going to do some loading. Once I start casting for it I imagine I will stick to a low and slow load with unique.Another friend found a box of factory loads for it today and we shot it a few times. Factory remington 300 grainers.Not a whole lot to them.I would prefer a flat point over a hollow point any day. This rifle does have micro-groove rifling, what are you guys sizing too? I do not have a lubersizer yet and was hoping to slide by with a lee sizing die.

[Lead Fred]

My std load for the GG is Ranch Dog 425gr FN, 34gr Reloader 7, veggie wad, dacron filler, 1600fps.
Aint found nuttin on the west coast it wont take down, to include 20 inch fir trees.

[groovy mike]

405 grain cast bullet shoots accurately out of my Marlin with a mouse load of 25 grains of H322 (no recoil AT ALL) - or a MOOSE load of 46.5 grains of IMR3031 (singnificant recoil) with enough force to break moose shoulders.


80277

80276

[brstevns]

I have a marlin 45/70 GG. Found .459 works well for me. Was using a mild load of 4198 and a Lyman 457193 bullet weighing out at 430 after being lubed. This is a plain base bullet. Getting 1 /1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. Hope this is of help.

[smkummer]

Unique works great in the 45-70. I am using a repro H&R officers trapdoor and (15 grains max for trapdoors) 14.5 grs. with the Lyman 385 grain(1250 FPS) or the Lyman 350 grain (1300 FPS) still is within trapdoor pressures and plenty of power and accuracy. With the Marlin you can increase the charge if needed. Of couse for plinking, 10 grains unique is a pleasure to shoot also.

[1Shirt]

It is hard to beat the old Gould HP in 45-70 at between 1200-1500.
1Shirt!

[jh45gun]

You do not need dacron with 2400!!!

[btroj]

Need Dacron? No. It DOES, however, give more consistent velocities.
I ran a test with and without filler. With filler gave far more consistent velocities. It may not make a difference at 100 yards but as ranges increase that velocity spread does lead to vertical.

[Skipper]

it is hard to beat the old gould hp in 45-70 at between 1200-1500.
1shirt!



+1 :-)

[pdawg_shooter]

From an earlier post of mine.

1895g Load for everything

After five years of trying I have finally found THE load for my Marlin 1895g. Does everything I want done and is still shootable. I started with new Remington brass, annealed the first ¾ inch using the melted lead method, belled with a Lee expander and primed with CCI 200. The powder charge is 52gr AA 2495. I started with 48 and worked up with no signs of pressure. This is a compressed load, even using a 16 inch drop tube. The magic bullet is cast in a Lyman 451114 mould. The alloy is 17 parts pure lead, 2 ½ parts linotype, and ½ part tin. The bullet drops from the mould .451 and is ready for patching. I make my patches from 16lb green bar computer paper, cut 2.750 long on a 60º angle 1.500 high. I dip in water and wrap twice around the bullet. They are left to dry overnight, then lubed with BAC. The next day the tails are clipped and the bullet is run through a .459 Lee sizing die. I seat them to an OCL of 2.580. These shoot clover leaf groups at 25 yards and into 1.75 at 100. This is with a Lyman 66 rear sight and factory front sight. Not bad for 58 year old eyes. Bullet performance on game is all one could ask for. I’ll not quit experimenting, but how does one improve on perfection?

[railroadman]

I like RL 7 and the 400sp speer bullet.43 grains.very good group 50 yards.

[TCLouis]

10.5 of #105 (milsurp version that shoots like UNIQUE) gives me 1100 fps with Lee 340 or Ranch Dog 350(?).

VERY accurate at that too, but not the flat trajectory you are seeking.

[hubel458]

Looking to get 1895 Marlin in 45-70 for a short, large bore case,
a rebarrel job. How much clearance does a 45/70 Rim have in
mag tube and feed port. Rimless Case I'm using .030" bigger rim/base
than 45-70 rim with a .585" bore
Can mag tube be reamed a little if needed.Ed

[starmac]

I have a marlin 45/70 GG. Found .459 works well for me. Was using a mild load of 4198 and a Lyman 457193 bullet weighing out at 430 after being lubed. This is a plain base bullet. Getting 1 /1/2 inch groups at 100 yards. Hope this is of help.

I'm glad to see this post, as I have just made a deal on that mold to be my first to try in my guide gun.

[Nobade]

Looking to get 1895 Marlin in 45-70 for a short, large bore case,
a rebarrel job. How much clearance does a 45/70 Rim have in
mag tube and feed port. Rimless Case I'm using .030" bigger rim/base
than 45-70 rim with a .585" bore
Can mag tube be reamed a little if needed.Ed

It doesn't have much room as is. You could open up the loading port but the mag tube is very thin and also is right up against the bottom of the barrel. I doubt you could fit anything in there that had a rim bigger than a 45-70. Also keep in mind how thin that barrel is under the chamber where it is cut out for the mag tube. Kind of scary when you get to looking at it, but they hold together most of the time.

-Nobade