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Trailblazer
10-19-2007, 03:31 PM
I finally joined the Leadhead Meatgetters society! I left Tuesday morning and backpacked into my late season area. I got to camp about 3:00 PM. The weatherman forecast fog and a chance of light rain for Tuesday night so I was a little concerned about staying dry. For some reason I didn’t give the prospect of rain any thought. Promises, promises! I was concerned about the fog because it can get very wet there from the fog and dew. There were two old tents there but both had disintegrated and were of no use. I set up camp and walked out to my hunting area. I am 57 and a little out of shape. I hurt bad-legs, feet, and back, so as I hobbled out through the hunting grounds I hurt but I was happy! I saw one doe that evening and that was good. Went back to camp early, had supper and hit the sack.

I woke up at midnight with cold water sprinkling my face. I had my clothes in the backpack next to the sleeping bag to keep them out of the dew. I keep a garbage bag in there so I dug it out and covered the backpack. I have also carried a space blanket in there for the last 25 years since I started backpack hunting-still in the original wrapper. When I bought it I wrapped duct tape around it so I would have tape out there when I needed it. Never needed it and after 25 years the tape was set up in a solid mass so I had to dig a knife out to get that open. Meanwhile the rain continued to fall. Finally got the space blanket open and reached down as far as I could to cover the sleeping bag with it and then pulled the top edge up as far as it would go. I found out they aren’t very big! The bottom edge didn’t cover my feet and the top edge came to the top edge of the bag at my chin. It was wide enough to also cover my boots though. The blanket clung very well to the wet bag which was good as an occasional gust of wind would hit. I grabbed my binoculars, down vest, and watch and got them down in the bag and hunkered down. Everything was good! Things were a little damp in there but still warm. The rain was light but steady. I was using a quilted flannel shirt as a pillow and it must have soaked up the water at the top of the sleeping bag. After a while though, I guess it couldn’t hold anymore and a cold trickle started down inside. I decided it could stop raining anytime and it did shortly after at 1:00 AM. I did not sleep well but it had cleared off when I got up about 4:00. My clothes were dry so life was still good!

As I was getting ready the fog started to roll in. It wasn’t solid and had breaks at times. I saw a doe or a spike right at the edge of my hunting area. I couldn’t quite make it out in the dim light and fog. I continued down the ridge and as I lost altitude the fog cleared more often. I was almost to my favorite spot when I saw a doe come off the other side of a deep little draw and go into the bottom of the draw. I watched and nothing else appeared so I crossed the draw and went to my sitting spot. The doe showed up across the draw. Time was passing but with the fog I figured they would be moving all day. After a while a little buck popped up out of the canyon below. When I saw he was legal I got a bit of buck fever. He was maybe 150 yards down so he was in range but I was jittery and he seemed to be coming up so I waited. He moved quickly out of sight below a step in the hillside. I caught a glimpse of him twice through some dead brush but never got a good look at him again. I waited a long time and finally decided to go down to see if he was below the step. I started down but it was to noisy and I didn’t really think he was still there anyway. I had a notion he was following the doe so I moved across to where I could see over where she was.

Sure enough they were just across the draw heading up the hill. At that point they were a little over 100 yards away and broadside. I had a bunch of dead junipers in front of me and they spotted me as I moved around the junipers. Usually they will just stand and watch if you are not an immediate threat but these two took off. By the time I got clear of the brush and plopped on my butt they were angling up and away toward the left. I had gotten over the jitters by then so I was steady and thought it was no more than 200 yards so I gave him some lead and squeezed it off. The little cannon really jumps and I couldn’t find him immediately. I could see the doe running up the hill but I couldn’t see him which was a good sign. I finally spotted him standing broadside in front of a little clump of brush. He wasn’t moving and didn’t look well but he was pointed downhill and he had to go uphill to make it to the freezer. I shot again just in case but had a brain fart and held high and missed him clean. At the shot though he slowly laid down and his head dropped.

The bullet entered low through the third rib from the back. It clipped the stomach and a lung and exited through a rib behind the shoulder. It must have clipped the heart sac too as that was open but the heart wasn’t touched. He was completely bled out inside. The bullet must have hit a large artery or vein somewhere but I didn’t see it. The entrance and exit were about nickel sized and the entrance was pretty well plugged with hair. There was just a trickle of blood from the exit. There was some bright frothy blood around him that he probably exhaled. Zero meat loss as it was only bloodshot for about an inch around the holes. This is condor country but I really doubt if there was enough lead left in the carcass to poison a buzzard. I doubt if the bullet expanded as it didn’t hit anything substantial.

I checked the distance on the topo map and it was every bit of 200 yards. He was a little buck and I don’t know if I would have killed him normally but I am getting ready to go to Colorado for cow elk in a little over a week and just wanted to fill a tag. Besides that he will eat good and I didn’t want to carry anything bigger out of there in my shape. It was a painful butt busting trip out with a 5 plus mile walk and a 1500 foot elevation gain. I weighed the pack, rifle and binocs when I got home and the total was 95 pounds. I have carried more than that out many times but it didn’t hurt this bad. I don’t know why I still do this except I still can.

This is where he fell:
http://www.hunt101.com/img/523133.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=523133&c=504&z=1)

This is a look at where I shot from. I was at the tip of the arrow. Anybody who is familiar with southern California’s public lands can see why I make the effort to go there. It isn't solid brush! You can see! This is rifle country!
http://www.hunt101.com/img/523134.JPG (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=523134&c=536&z=1)

dubber123
10-19-2007, 05:37 PM
Excellent story! I'm glad the trip went well despite the rain. I'll have my brother read this later, he'll enjoy it also. Thanks .

MT Gianni
10-19-2007, 10:27 PM
Nice going. I enjoyed the read and congratulations. Gianni

mark348
10-19-2007, 11:03 PM
love to see the levers take meat,,,, great story,,,,

Lloyd Smale
10-20-2007, 06:22 AM
cool deal. I love my 356 its a real thumper. Marlin would have been smart to bring it back instead of making a new round.

9.3X62AL
10-20-2007, 12:12 PM
Fine story, and congrats on that forkie! That is rifle country, and pretty rare in southern California. Is this an A-Zone area?

Trailblazer
10-20-2007, 01:15 PM
Thanks, I am glad you liked the story. When I can't hunt I like to talk about hunting! I am slowly healing. Every time I stop moving rigor mortis sets in though.

This 356 Winchester is close to becoming my favorite rifle. It is closing in on first place which is held by my pre-64 Model 70 30-06. The ought-six will never be dethroned but the 356 might become #2. I think the 356 is the best of the modern lever offerings for my purposes. It has the bullet diameter and the trajectory to allow sure kills at longer ranges.

Al, this is D-13. A-zone is just a few miles west. In fact on a clear day I can see the mountain top I hunt in A-zone from my D-13 spot Can't be more than 20 miles- maybe more like 15. I have always been nervous about hunting with cast bullets because my average shot on deer has been 200 yards. That is why I had to test the 356 at 200. I had to see what it could do. If I can hit to 200 yards I won't lose to many opportunities. My main rifle has been a 264 Win Mag for many years. The lever rifle sure does carry nice though.

I have another picture that shows something I puzzled over for a while. This is a picture of the buck ready for boning:
http://www.hunt101.com/img/523199.jpg (http://www.hunt101.com/?p=523199&c=504&z=1)
You can see a dark spot toward the back of the ribs where the bullet entered. There is also a dark spot on his upper leg where the bullet passed through his leg before hitting his body. The bullet missed the bone completely and just punched a .358" hole through the muscle. He had to have that leg high to be hit there. The bullet passed aft to fore so it was the first bullet. He also had to have had his right leg extended forward for the bullet to miss his right shoulder. Kind of interesting. I have never hit one that low in the leg and still hit it in the chest!

JDL
10-20-2007, 02:12 PM
Congrats on a fine hunt! Memories made to remember at a later time. 1977 was the year I first took a deer with a levergun and used a cast boolit to boot. That old 99 has accompanied me on many more hunts and has taken a few more deer, all with cast boolits. -JDL

dk17hmr
10-20-2007, 04:04 PM
Very nice. I have been looking forward to hunting with cast bullets this year, probably in the '06 flavor. Reading this makes me want to get my 1903 or M1 and get in the woods right now but I still have another month before rifle season opens.

9.3X62AL
10-20-2007, 05:57 PM
TB--

D-14'er here. I had to cut Thursday's hunt short due to a busted tire 8 miles from pavement. The morning was gorgeous, but no critters seen or sign noted. I was moving to higher country when a pointy rock had its apparent tread interface. $148 later, I'm back in bizness for Monday.

Trailblazer
10-21-2007, 12:58 PM
Good luck, Al! I am glad I am not trying to hunt this weekend as the winds are ferocious. Gusts above 50 MPH on the exposed areas! Hope they don't interfere with your hunt.

I was slow to hunt with cast bullets. I had to find a combination I had confidence in. I wouldn't have hesitated as long in flatter country that offered more short range opportunities.

Ernest
10-22-2007, 09:10 PM
What a marvelous story. And a marvelous hunt. I did some back pack hunting years ago and reading that story brings back wonderful memories.

Marlin Junky
12-21-2007, 01:06 PM
Load info would be nice. What's the rate of twist?

MJ

Trailblazer
12-22-2007, 10:20 AM
12" twist. Brass is WW 356 Win. WLR primers. 43 grains Varget(slightly compressed) and the bullet is water dropped WW. COL is 2.61" to 2.62" and they are crimped in the crimp groove with a Lee FCD. Velocity is about 2090 FPS. Sighted in 2" to 3" high at 100, it was 2" low at 200 and three went into 1-3/8" at 200 when I did the trajectory test. This load is accurate and is not very sensitive to seating depth for some reason. They varied up to .020" in length which concerned me at first but I found that it made no difference whatsoever for my purposes. I may mark one cavity and sort them to see if I can get a more consistent COL.

I should add that bullets measure about .359" as cast and are lubed in a .360" die. Another thing that concerned me but doesn't seem to matter is that the bullets end up loose in the neck before crimping. The gas check ends up below the shoulder and it expands the neck so that there is little or no neck tension. I can move some by hand.

This is a very forgiving load that violates some of the rules but still works!

Ranch Dog
12-22-2007, 10:44 AM
Excellent Trailblazer! Very good write up. The images aren't appearing for me but sure would like to see them. Is your rifle the Marlin or Winchester? I've got two ERs and they are great rifles! I would like to see Marlin make another go of it but instead of the Winchester cartridge, I wish they would introduce a 358 Marlin Express. It would give me a reason to buy another! Scientific research... if no other reason!

Trailblazer
12-22-2007, 11:25 AM
I don't see the edit icon on the original post so here are the pictures. First is the little buck where he fell:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/504/23947Deer.jpg

This is where I shot from at the tip of the arrow. You can see the country:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/536/23947Hill_with_arrow.JPG

This is him hanging where you can see the bullet holes; one in the leg and one in the ribs:
http://www.hunt101.com/data/504/23947Hanging_deer.jpg

As you can see the rifle is a Winchester. I really don't understand why the Big Bore cartridges didn't catch on. Poor marketing I suppose. Marlin has replaced the 307 with the 308 ME but I agree a 35 would be nice too.

Ranch Dog
12-22-2007, 05:51 PM
Very nice!

Marlin Junky
12-23-2007, 02:32 AM
Trailblazer,

What's the .356's groove diameter?

BTW, if the boolits are .359" and ckecked in a .360" die, I can see why there's no neck tension.

Thanks,
MJ

Trailblazer
12-23-2007, 12:03 PM
Thanks, RD.

The groove diameter at the breech is .359". I don't remember the muzzle but I think it was right at .358". Most if not all of the several Winchester barrels I have are choked. Groove diameter at the breech is at least a thousandth bigger than at the muzzle.