1853 Armi sport. The rifle that will drive me nuts

[Oldbuttplate]

Ever have one that drives you to the point that you look at trees and think about how hard you could swing it? Well found it. Bore .580 cast mines out of a lee mike .577 use 3f and 2f from 35gr to 65gr lube with spg bore butter and about every thing I can think of. Lead, soft use the same for round ball in my .50 now the fun part, with .570 round ball and .015 patch at 50 yards just about one hole! The minies I sometimes hit the target if I'm lucky. First time I have ran into a rifle that I could not get to shoot. Run out of things to try with this one!
Bore good
Minie is very good push fit
Powder from 35 to 65gr
Lube every thing I can think of
Lead soft
So, can anyone think of something that I can try? Or is this going to be the one that got me.

[mooman76]

I had a gun like that. I came close to wrapping it around a tree quite a few time. Maybe cause I couldn't find a tree close by that stopped me. Wasn't a BP gun though it was a 7x57 Spanish Mauser with an over sized bore. I finally cut it up. Any way. What is the twist rate on it? But you did get it to shoot, just not with minies and some guns aren't made to shoot certain things. It might just not like minies or the particular one you are using. You could try upping the powder charge a little more and see if that might help. My Hawkin will shoot the Lee 58 minie that is about 500gr. It's the minie that is a copy of an original. It doesn't shoot them great but good enough for hunting.

[Fly]

Got to agree with moonman, the rifling might be to deep to shoot mini balls.I try & tried
with my GPR, to shoot mini,s with out much success.But a patch ball it's a tack driver.

Fly

[Oldbuttplate]

Looks to be 1-48 rifling is .004 not like the lymen GPR, I had it out to day and got on paper at 30 yards by taping the ram rod down hard! Sad when your happy just hitting the paper but I am.

[rhbrink]

"With a .570 round ball and .015 patch at 50 yards just about one hole!"

I must be missing something here?

Do you think that a .58 cal round ball will bounce off a deer or elk or bear or whatever?

:-?

[sharpsguy]

If you try that 570 round ball on deer or anything else, you might not care whether the rifle will or won't shoot a minie. That PRB flat out puts deer on the ground Right Now. I have killed more deer and killed them quicker with my 58 Hawken shooting a 570 PRB than any other rifle I have. I say shoot the round ball and go hunting.

[Nobade]

Sounds like you are in the same place I was about a year ago. Gotta Miroku '63 that shot good solid 20 MOA groups with the Lee improved minie'. But with a patched round ball it was a tack driver. Well, I got myself a Lyman #575213 and that thing will keep most shots touching at 50M and 3 - 4 inch groups at 100M. Way better! I don't know what it is about that Lee boolit but in my rifle at least it is about useless. Recently I got a RCBS 500gr. Minie' mould and it also shoots very well, about the same accuracy wise just a slightly different point of impact.

Oh, I also started using bore butter mixed with soy wax for lube. That works very well too.

-Nobade

[Oldbuttplate]

Yes round ball would work very well on anything I would hunt but the thing is this is an enfield and I have seen guys shoot them out to 300 yards with a minie. That's why I'm working with it. Nobade I read something before about the Lee not doing good, I will see if I can't come up with the lymen to try in it.[smilie=b:

[fouronesix]

I shoot several 58/577 cal muskets with slow twist. Naturally, I tried the Lee Improved minie because of low cost of the mold and the design does look good. Looks can be deceiving. Long story short- as good as the Lee Imp minie looked or fit, including one try in another caliber, I never got the Lee improved minie to shoot. Just gave up on them altogether so now shoot RCBS or Lyman minies.

[mooman76]

Shallow rifling and plenty tight enough to shoot a minie accurate.

[Fly]

Enfield now I understand why it makes you crazy.Never owned one but read a lot on them.One gun I will own someday.If you get tired of messing with it
PM me & I might take it off your hands.I love messing with stuff as this, even if I can't find the answer either.

Fly

[varsity07840]

Ever have one that drives you to the point that you look at trees and think about how hard you could swing it? Well found it. Bore .580 cast mines out of a lee mike .577 use 3f and 2f from 35gr to 65gr lube with spg bore butter and about every thing I can think of. Lead, soft use the same for round ball in my .50 now the fun part, with .570 round ball and .015 patch at 50 yards just about one hole! The minies I sometimes hit the target if I'm lucky. First time I have ran into a rifle that I could not get to shoot. Run out of things to try with this one!
Bore good
Minie is very good push fit
Powder from 35 to 65gr
Lube every thing I can think of
Lead soft
So, can anyone think of something that I can try? Or is this going to be the one that got me.

If your minie is .577 in a .580 bore, it's too small. Assuming it hasn't been run through a sizing die, the push fit is probably
from excess lube. .001-.002 under bore size works best. Moose Moulds make a number of moulds that should work for that rifle.
Also, lead soft enough for round ball may not necessarily be soft enough for minies.

Duane

[Oldbuttplate]

I got lucky today and ran in to a man that's been shooing rifles of this type for years. He had his Springfield 1861 with him. So I Pestered the poor man for all the info I could, ask him to see what he could do with my enfield. Well with the minies he had that came from a lymen moud and sized .579 and 50grns of Triple 7, 5 shots 50 yards 3 Inch Group 6 Inches high. Said if he had time he could do better. So I know what I need now. Fascinating Watching someone that knows how Civil war rifles work.

[Nobade]

I would bet that real gun powder would make it work even better.

-Nobade

[webfoot10]

I have the old Lyman Enfield Carbine with the 5 groove progressive rifling, I shoot the Lee Target Mini paper patched and
lubed with venison tallow over 60 grs of 2f blackpowder. At 100 yds it will give the Parker Hale guys a fit. I could hit the
6 in bull at 100 yds offhand when my eyes were good. It sucks to get old.
webfoot

[HARRYMPOPE]

60g triple seven FFF in my Parker Hale 1858's shoots as good as blackpowder.

[Boz330]

Another thing to look at is the thickness of the skirt on the minie. An old trick is to make a larger diameter plug to thin the skirt so it will expand into the rifling better.

Bob

[Oldbuttplate]

Webfoot I know how that is, used to shoot AR In high power, at 60 the eyes started to go now if its not a nice sunny day I can't see for all the black fuzz in the peep sight!
I have come to the Conclusion that shooting a Rifle Muskett is an art or the ones that shoot good have been left in a cave on a full moon night and had Potions rubbed on them and words Spoken over them.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Have a Zoauve caliber .58 that shoots minison a good day 6 inch patterns at 50 yards. But put a tight patched .570 40-1 RB on top of 60-85 grains 2F and it will cloverleaf off cross sticks.
That same ball load went through two largish east ILLinois does at 35 yards. Broke the spine on the nearest and through the chest of the second.
I really have no need for more "thwap" than that. Plus I can cast 10 RB's at the rate of one HB mini. It just does not add up to any benefit the hassle those HB slugs offer.
Mike in Peru

[HARRYMPOPE]

A good English Parker Hale in .577 will shoot a proper sized .575 Minie under 3" at 100 enough to be interesting.At 200 yards 6-8" groups.(5 shot groups)

[double8]

Try a Lee .575 470 gr minie bullet. Mold # 575-470M with 75 gr FFG to start. My Zouave just loves 'em.

[fouronesix]

:):) That Lee tumble lube wadcutter minie is a sight to behold! I know at least one shooter who has good luck with them (relative to his musket shooting anyway) and for around $20- no great damage if they don't work. I just haven't needed to try them after finding good molds for all my muskets.

[Oldbuttplate]

The .579 minies I have now over 60gr of 2f seem to be doing good, well a lot better then it was. 3 to 4 inch at 50 yards. Now that may not seem good but before it was more like 3 feet at 50. So I think it just needs a little work with the load and lube. Thanks for all the input.

[fouronesix]

Are they the Lyman minies from the fellow you ran into at the range? If so then that mold may still be available from Lyman. Wish I'd had access to a bunch of different "test" minies before having to purchase several molds and do the trial-by-error thing. It was not an easy, free or quick education but it was a good one.

[Oldbuttplate]

Yes they came from 575213 mould that had been Modified, as the size is .579 I would think it had been laped? But I didn't ask, if I see him I will get more info. Trying to Absorb as much as I could at the time and forgot to ask a lot of things.

[59sharps]

Ever have one that drives you to the point that you look at trees and think about how hard you could swing it? Well found it. Bore .580 cast mines out of a lee mike .577 use 3f and 2f from 35gr to 65gr lube with spg bore butter and about every thing I can think of. Lead, soft use the same for round ball in my .50 now the fun part, with .570 round ball and .015 patch at 50 yards just about one hole! The minies I sometimes hit the target if I'm lucky. First time I have ran into a rifle that I could not get to shoot. Run out of things to try with this one!
Bore good
Minie is very good push fit
Powder from 35 to 65gr
Lube every thing I can think of
Lead soft
So, can anyone think of something that I can try? Or is this going to be the one that got me.
if your bore is 580 then 577 is to small. You do not want to be anymore than .002 under bore size. some where around 42 grn of 3 fffg should work. for lube try plan crisco or 50/50 beeswax olive oil.

[Good Cheer]

Looks to be 1-48 rifling is .004 not like the lymen GPR, I had it out to day and got on paper at 30 yards by taping the ram rod down hard! Sad when your happy just hitting the paper but I am.

I'm threatening to get a push through sizer die to squeeze down Lyman minies after paper patching. My barrel is 48" twist with narrow lands and grooves that are kind of trapezoidal. I'd really like to get a replacement plug to make the hollow just a shallow dimple, thinking that with a 48" twist it might be fast enough just to treat "minie" as just another bullet. And hang on.

[Nobade]

If you want to paper patch it I would get a sizer to make the bullet what you want before you patch it. That way it is round and consistent - I have found that sizing patched bullets enough to deform the core always leads me to poor accuracy.

-Nobade