Wich handgun should I carry in Bear country???

[TheCelt]

I am going on a 14 day Elk hunt in Northern Idaho not far from the Canadian border. I have never hunted Elk or the high country, having spent my life in the Southern woods hunting whitetails. My cousin David (who is ramrodding the whole deal) suggested that in addition to my Win Model 70 .338 Win Mag I should have a suitable sidearm. I own several 1911 45s and a couple of Ruger SA in 45 Colt. What would be the best pistol to take. Should I get something else??? I never thought much about a sidearm while hunting but I guess it'd be a good idea in Bear country. Ya'll got any suggestions???

[500MAG]

If those were my choices I'd take the SA 45. Just me.

[DougGuy]

+3 on the Ruger SA. A 300+gr WFN over 22.0-23.0gr H110 would be my choice of loads. No lighter than 300gr, no HP and no Jwords.

[unclogum bill]

Since you will be going with your cousin, anything you feel comfortable shooting him in the leg with will do. Shoot him and the run like hell. Really though most of us can't hit a moving target with a pistol. Odds of seeing a bear are 1000 to one and your best bet (yes you will be laughed at), a can of bear repellent. Also that Mag sounds like a lot of gun less you can shoot straight, standing tall. I know those that will disagree but a 270 that hits is a better choice than a Mag that bites.

[TheCelt]

Since you will be going with your cousin, anything you feel comfortable shooting him in the leg with will do. Shoot him and the run like hell. Really though most of us can't hit a moving target with a pistol. Odds of seeing a bear are 1000 to one and your best bet (yes you will be laughed at), a can of bear repellent. Also that Mag sounds like a lot of gun less you can shoot straight, standing tall. I know those that will disagree but a 270 that hits is a better choice than a Mag that bites.

LOL, sound advice!!! I shoot the dickens out of the 338 and love that old rifle, 250gr Nosler Partition in front of 70gr of RL-19 is a smoking load that's fun to shoot! It's a 1959 model and has been with me awhile, never hunted with it till now.

Looks like I'll tote the Ruger. I sure appreciate the advice folks!

[williamwaco]

Normally, I would say a hot loaded .45 Colt.

But a hot loaded 1911 with three mags could do a lot of damage.

I am betting you could pump 21 shots in the time it would take to get three aimed from the Ruger.

[USAFrox]

This one: http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2005/01/the_thunder_50_.html
;)

[DougGuy]

1911 is a GOOD way to insure that the bear is VERY MAD, and VERY ALIVE when he gets to you...

[9.3X62AL]

That 338 Win Mag is a fine choice for bear stopping in its own right. It is an extremely well-designed and well-balanced caliber for the larger species of North American game, esp. the ones with daunting dentition. It may be the best derivation of the Holland & Holland belted magnum case shortened to the "standard" 2.5" length that we have today. Its sole disadvantage is its cartridge capacity in those standard turnbolts--3 rounds, as opposed to 5 in the 30-06-class calibers. That is why I discontinued use of the 338 c. 2002, and opted for a 9.3 x 62. I actually got confronted by a bear, and lacked a rifle at the time. It was just a chump-azzed black bear, but the matter was still disquieting. The Redhawk in 44 Magnum that I used to cover our egress from the bear's berry patch was nice, but seemed rather puny at the time--with the bear unseen but quite audible (CHUFF, CHUFF, CHUFF.....) and easily smelled. In fact, we smelled him before we heard him. He STANK, and days of berry-eating likely loosened his bowels. Since that event, I ALWAYS have a rifle on board the truck in bear country, and make a point of slinging it up when on walkabout--and having it near at hand when stopped. In our CA mountains, this purpose is well-served by a 30-30 WCF Win 94 in Condition 4, six 170 grain Sierra flatpoints on stand-by in the tube.

There is certainly some value in having a sideiron ready and holstered to supplement the rifle when in the back-country. The 45 Colt is a good caliber in 1873 form, and even better when loaded to its capabilities in the Ruger revolvers. A Bear Problem is not a common occurrence, and your rifle is a far better counter-measure for same if one occurs--but having that 45 Colt at hand beats hell out of throwing rocks or wishful thinking. Load choice? Whatever load you trust in the roller already. The 45 Colt was designed with shooting through a cavalry or Indian mount in mind and reaching an enemy combatant on the horse's far side--that's with the 250-255 grainer running ~1000 FPS. Such loads have tractable recoil and generally fine accuracy; 90% of my 45 Colt shooting gets done in my BisHawk with just such charges. I would deer-hunt with such loads in a heartbeat, and they sure as hell won't do any good to an attacker--on 2 or 4 legs.

[cwheel]

Sounds like we are going to the same place in Idaho. We are going up there around the 12th of Oct. do a look around deer hunting. We have hunted South Eastern Idaho for close to 20 years, never the upper panhandle, for us some scouting will be necessary. Decided this year to try something different. We always carry a handgun as a backup in Idaho as a last resort. I have carried a 1911 45auto through all of these hunts. The wheel gun can have heavier boolits, but much slower to put rounds on target. The single action wheel gun has the advantage in boolit weight, but a single action has a distinct disadvantage in close getting fast shots on target. I always choose a 1911 for close in, if you need to use a handgun, threat will be close in. Forget reloads for this one, ( not that they won't do the job ) think about getting a fresh box of Winchester Ranger 230 gr. HP rounds that are LE rated. ( $50 or so for a box of 50 ) They expand well, and always work. Of course your rifle will be your first line of defense, but close in where you would go to a handgun, you should be able to get more shots on target with a 1911. If you hunt like we do, often will run into stuff in the brush flushing through that you are not hunting. Use a proper holster, carry cocked and locked, all you need to do is draw and remove the safety. If not trained to do this, learn how to safely do it. So far we have been lucky that none of this has produced a bad result that needed a handgun, hope you have the same luck. Running into other hunters out there, most don't pack a handgun. I do and always will, seen to much happen in the past, don't want to become someone's camp fire story.
Chris

[M-Tecs]

45 acp is fine for black bear. The 45 Colt with a 300+gr WFN is way better for brown bear. That being said I have only killed black bear.

A good friend of mine is a brown bear guide in Alaska. After a couple of close calls with short range charges from wound bears he now carries a 375 H&H. He had a client wound one with a gut shot at 40 yards. The client had a solid rest but a case of bear fever. The bear went down and spun when it was hit in the gut. My buddy hit it in the chest when it got back up and a second time as it charged. The third and final shot was with the barrel touching the bear. Since switching to the 375 H&H he has not needed a second shot

It does not take that much to kill a brown bear when hunting. His favorite clients are the ones that show up with well used 30-06. They tend to place the first shot well. When it comes to stopping a brown bear that is trying to have you for lunch something that will stop it 5 seconds sooner could be all the difference in the world.

[TheCelt]

Sounds like we are going to the same place in Idaho. We are going up there around the 12th of Oct. do a look around deer hunting. We have hunted South Eastern Idaho for close to 20 years, never the upper panhandle, for us some scouting will be necessary. Chris

I am headed up the 9th and will be at the camp the 10th which is opening day. Cousin is scouting the range we'll hunt now. From what I hear the sidearm is good insurance in the area so I'll be taking one. I'm pretty pumped about this Hunt, a lot of firsts for me.....first Elk hunt, High country hunt, and I haven't seen my cousin in to many years! I think it's gonna be one for the books!

[olereb]

I love my 1911's but when I used to live out west I carried a 44mag when in the woods,since you don't have that as a option I would go with the 45colt. Have fun on the hunt!!

[Noah Mercy]

As long as the Ruger is a Blackhawk or old model Vaquero, that would be my first choice. Load with a 300 grain hard cast bullet with a decent meplat, run it between 1250 and 1350 fps and you'll get a clean pass-through on any bruin in the lower 48 and wreck a lot of stuff along the way. As stated above, black bears aren't terribly hard to put down, but grizzes are tough...their muscle density is similar to pine, so a stout projectile that drives deep is a must. I use the Lee 300 grain .45 boolit cast of 50% ww and 50% lino. A book max of Li'l Gun drives it 1250 fps from my 3 1/2" Sheriff's Model Birdshead Vaquero, and punches through a layer of wet 8 ounce leather, 36" of wet newspaper, and the 1/2" pressure treated plywood backer, then buries it several inches into the berm. The slugs barely deform. And the load is plenty accurate; I get saucer-sized groups at 25 yards offhand, which ain't bad for a "snubby" with mediocre fixed sights.

[Duckiller]

An alternative would be to take a 22lr hand gun, lots of ammo and never put your hunting rifle down. Plinking around camp is fun, taking on ANY bear with a hand gun is not. God made large caliber rifles to kill Lions, Tigers and Bears.

[cwheel]

Going to be up in the Bonners Ferry area around the 13th or so looking for a base camp for a trailer with hookups. ( could get there a little early ) Don't know the area and there is little info on line, just go up there and see what we find. Good luck with your hunt, we are just getting a general deer tag each. If things don't pan out up there we can always move with that tag. Have had some cold camps in Idaho over the years in bad weather. But bad weather moves things around better, better tracks to follow. Stay away from griz, and the gray wolf, things should be fine. Look for a couple old guys with big bore rifles and 1911's say hi.
Chris

[Pilgrim]

A fella killed a grizzly up in Denali park when it attacked his girlfriend. 1911 .45 ACP. The bear turned around after he opened fire. The bear was found dead about 50 yds. from where the fracas started. Reportedly he emptied the gun (9 shots). I sold my Bisley in .45 Colt. Too doggone heavy to pack around. I always felt like I was about to lose my britches when I carried it holstered on my hip. Never tried to carry it in a shoulder holster. I now carry a 1911 in .45 ACP. Much lighter, more compact, and a 230 cast at 850 -900 fps nearly duplicates the old blackpowder .45 Colt load. I'd carry a 230 gr. cast slug with a nice meplat. My current choice is the RCBS 230 gr. cowboy boolit. The Win 230 gr JHP load is designed to expand. You don't want any expansion on a bear with a handgun. FWIW...Pilgrim

[RP]

Well I have to say a loaded one dead is dead you can not kill something more then dead. But I do like the over kill if you can use a 9mm well its better then a 500 you can not use well. That's the best thing to keep in mind.

[sixshot]

Good luck on your elk hunt. Your 338 maggie is a superb elk caliber & works just fine on bears as well!! There are no Brown bears in Idaho, there are color phase black bears that are brown, a lot different than a big coastal Brown bear.
The elk will be hugging the heavy timber, usally on the north facing & the east facing sides that time of year, they will be goosy because they've been bowhunted for a month so hunt the most remote areas you can safely get to.
In my part of Idaho a bugle is just about worthless....everybody has one! Much better to use a cow call, but some guys get lucky bugling.
Which ever handgun you choose should be the one you shoot best, hard bullets are much preferred because you want penetration but accuracy comes first. The 45 ACP with correct bullets will work, the 45 Colt with correct bullets will work better, plus you might just wander onto a grizzly, they do like to munch on non-residents, just saying! For the most part you will always be within reach of that dandy 338, but for the few times you might not have it then the sixgun or ACP should be with you. Every year a few people get slapped around by bears in our state.
Keep your camp clean & the food stashed away & you should be fine, good luck on your hunt.

Dick

[M-Tecs]

There are no Brown bears in Idaho,

Is it a brown bear or a grizzly? The answer is that all grizzlies are brown bears, but not all brown bears are grizzlies. The grizzly is a North American subspecies of brown bear with the Latin name Ursus arctos horribilis. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/bears-of-the-last-frontier/hour-one-city-of-bears/brown-bear-fact-sheet/6522/

[Jupiter7]

I'd vote 45colt, loaded as warm as you can shoot and recover with one hand. A better course of action would be a plan as to what you and your cousin will do if a bear is encountered. For the load, 260gr+ boolits with flat noses and sharp edges made of good tough alloy. If you can't draw and fire 2-3rds in 5-6seconds on a man sized target at 10yds, consider something else. Don't even consider jacketed expanding bullets in 45auto, regardless of manufacturer. 230grn GI ball would be my bear(pun intended) minimum.

[sixshot]

There are grizzly bears & black bears in Idaho.......there are NO Brown bears!

Dick

[cwheel]

Sounds like you have got some great advise going here in this thread. Although some will have a personal preference based on their backgrounds, make sure what ever you pack you can use well under stress and make some good hits. I'd be packing a 6" S&W model 29 if I didn't mind the extra weight of the 44. Packing that deer out at elevation is going to be tough enough for a couple of old guys. ( at least we hope to ) Nothing like that wake up call at 4am and getting out there.
Chris

[Idaho Mule]

Follow Sixshot's advice and you will do ok. I sure hope you connect on the elk, they sure are good eating. Definitely go with the cow calls as they will be more productive. Better yet is to learn to use some of the diaphragm calls and then you can switch it all up and sound like anything you need to. Elk in Northern Idaho are quite used to being persued by some pretty tenacious type folks so they are not easily duped. As far as the bear goes, pack what you shoot best. Most likely all you will see is his butt going over the first ridge at a high rate of speed. JW

[Whiterabbit]

you are carrying a 338 RIFLE and you feel you need a pistol?

........

[BruceB]

you are carrying a 338 RIFLE and you feel you need a pistol?........

i would strongly suggest that you do a search for "Karen moose", and pay some attention to just how badly things can go awry. The actual title is "The Day Karen Met The Moose".

I have carried a .44 Magnum pistol on hunting trips for decades, and was grateful to have it....even though I also had a .30-'06, or a .338, or a .404, or a .416.

The cost is minimal, the effort miniscule. However, the potential benefits are huge.

[TheCelt]

Going to be up in the Bonners Ferry area around the 13th or so looking for a base camp for a trailer with hookups. ( could get there a little early ) Don't know the area and there is little info on line, just go up there and see what we find. Good luck with your hunt, we are just getting a general deer tag each. If things don't pan out up there we can always move with that tag. Have had some cold camps in Idaho over the years in bad weather. But bad weather moves things around better, better tracks to follow. Stay away from griz, and the gray wolf, things should be fine. Look for a couple old guys with big bore rifles and 1911's say hi.
Chris

Don't know exactly where we'll be yet other than it's the NE corner a few miles from Canada. Canvas 8-man tent and cook tent are already set up and cousin is scouting the area. I am gonna get an Elk tag as this is probably my best and last chance to get one and I'm gonna give it 100%!!! Sounds like we are the same group, old guys with big bore rifles!!!! My younger cousin Tom is shooting a pistol in 375 JDJ so if Ya'll run into a group and one fella has a outer space lookin pistol that'll be us!!! Good luck to ya Chris!!!

[waksupi]

Where you are hunting is pretty much in Veral Smith's back yard. There have been quite a few wolves in the area the past few years. Also a griz attack within about 100 miles. Be aware.
It can be a pretty rugged jungle to hunt!

[4rdwhln]

Ok, Long time lurker and first time poster. Having hunted with bears and cats for years,I have learned a few things. I used to hunt with the venerable 06 and a 44 mag sbh. In my younger days I carried 6 in the pistol and 50 in the pack, and 5 in the 06 and 20 in the pack.Took a few years and I woke up a little,or maybe got lazy.I was packing about 10 lbs of extra weight. I still pack my 45. and 1 extra mag.It was in my hand when the coyote came as I ate lunch bow hunting elk. and when the wolf followed the scent trail I laid to lure Mr. buck in. So far I haven't needed to use it.I have had mountain lion at 10 feet and no pistol, fishing tiny creeks in heavy timber for brookies. They come in silently you will probably never know they are there. Bears usually make noise or you smell em . For sure the rifle is better for stopping any threat, And as the miles get longer and the hills steeper packing the extra weight makes for long days.

[TheCelt]

Where you are hunting is pretty much in Veral Smith's back yard. There have been quite a few wolves in the area the past few years. Also a griz attack within about 100 miles. Be aware.
It can be a pretty rugged jungle to hunt!

Thanks for the heads-up Waksupi, I'll be vigilante. Never hunted anyplace where I was part of the food chain before. About the only thing we have to deal with down here are snakes (which get nasty sometimes). My cousin tells me that the pistol is needed IF I am fortunate enough to bag an Elk. The meat will have to be brought out on his mules and the process of gutting and quartering the Elk will attract every meat eater within 15 miles. He shot a deer last year and said he had a bear WATCH him gut and quarter and came in for the gut pile when he left.

I appreciate Whiterabbits sentiment as my .338 is an awesome rifle but I don't figure to have it with me every minute, especially in camp. Gonna take the Ruger with some real hot 255gr Semiwadcutters cast in HARD alloy and water dropped. Ought to do the trick in a pinch.

[quilbilly]

Always remember that when you go to get help to pack out the meat (and antlers), don't just waltz up to the kill area thinking it is still yours. Stay back 50 yards for a few minutes and at least listen even if you can't see the carcass. It might not even be big hungries, it might even be 10,000 yellow jacket wasps you might not want to argue with (lost half of a mule deer that way once after dozens of bites and stings).

[grubbylabs]

Bear spray is your friend, coming from low altitude to high altitude your going to want to go as light as possible. The rifle with bear spray will be plenty.

If you have never been to altitude before, it will be a bigger concern than bears. Pack some midall and chocolate for altitude sickness. If you have never had it you have no idea of the misery it is.

I can tell you from personal experience that one can still feel pretty under gunned with a stout 44 mag load on your side while holding a bow and walking over grizzly prints in the trail.

[jmort]

The stats show that bear spray is most effective, around 88% I believe, and no one has ever been killed deploying Bear Spray, followed by handguns, around 84%, and then long guns, around 82% effective. I think bear spray and a handgun makes sense.

[cwheel]

Had a few years in Idaho hunting out of a wall tent, later a tent trailer, the travel trailer is a little more of a problem finding a place for but makes for a easier hunt when things get cold. Horses stay home this time give them a break. Your mules should make getting a elk out much easier. We won't hunt off quads, but would sure use one to get a animal out, until that time it stays in the truck. Look forward to looking around the area and see what future hunts could happen there. Our rifles are a 300 mag and a 444 as primary, with 1911's we never feel under gunned.
Chris

[MarkP]

+3 on the Ruger SA. A 300+gr WFN over 22.0-23.0gr H110 would be my choice of loads. No lighter than 300gr, no HP and no Jwords.

+4 on the SA 45 - Certainly have it with you when you are packing out your meat & antlers and around the camp. When hunting elk I would carry my Ruger Red Hawk in 44 mag w/ 310 gr WFN, and found it to be quite heavy and in the way while climbing around. Bring it and try carrying it for the first few days.

[Mohillbilly]

The Ruger Blackhawk for the reasons of the power available . BUT more because of it creating the loudest noise . Alaskan Grizzly turn and go the other way after a couple shots in the air ...........

[cwheel]

I never waste ammo on any kind of warning shots, ammo fired that way could make the difference if you walk away or not. Don't ever be the one caught needing to reloading after warning shots didn't work. If it becomes time to fire rounds, make sure they hit the target. Any of these critters can cover 30yards before most people could ever have time to reload.
Chris

[waksupi]

Be sure to tell us about your experience when you get back home, win, loose, or draw!

[sixshot]

The chances of a bear attack are slim, most people hunt their whole life here in Idaho & never even see a bear, but, you prepare for the worst & hope for the best, for me that will always be a good sixgun so I'll take the 84% odds against the bear spray.
Everyone reading this needs to count to 3, can you reach your handgun or your pepper spray in that length of time, a bear, in an all out rush just covered 40 yds! They are extremely fast, especially going up hill. If a person were attacked you would be shooting at an animal coming head on, most likely you won't see the whole bear, there can be rocks, brush, etc & getting a clear shot is slim & you'll probably be shooting at the head because thats all you can see, sounds fun huh? Again, our Idaho bears have a real sweet tooth for non-residents, especially Utah fishermen, bears hate them, so do most Idahoans!
If its bear spray you settle on just hope the wind isn't blowing in your face!

Dick

[grubbylabs]

I carry both spray and a 44 mag, but my 44 mag is a scandium framed Smith and Wesson. So it is extremely light and very easy to carry. Bear spray is carried so I can use it in my left hand, leaving my right hand free to access the 44 if I have too. My main concern for the OP is that being a flat lander, he is going to have all he can handle packing his rifle and pack, a can of spray is lighter than the two hand guns he is considering, and is less likely to be left in camp because of weight.

I usually Archery hunt just out side of Yellow Stone National park where black bears and grizzly bears are plentiful. But I have yet to see one during archery season. I have seen 1 bear during a rifle hunt, I was quite surprised at how big a hurry it was in to get out a town as soon as it realized we were there. Especially since we were on horse back with a bull elk split between 3 horses.

[dk17hmr]

I have been of the opinion that if you are hunting with a big magnum rifle you don't really need to weight of a big magnum handgun that wont likely be drawn anyways. Your 45LC is a good choice to go with your though. I would probably opt for a heavier bullet though.

Last year elk and deer hunting in the mountains I carried a Sig Sauer 40 S&W loaded with hard 180gr cast TC's 100% of the time. This year it will be my Glock 20 in 10mm with 200gr WFN cast pretty hard and pushed pretty fast. A couple of my friends have those super lightweight S&W 44 magnums, they are nice but very hard to shoot well, and you only have 6 shots. I'm quick and pretty accurate with the 16 rounds my Glock 10mm, coupled with my 338 win mag or 300WSM I don't feel under gunned for anything I'm likely to run into in the mountains of Western Wyoming.

[MT Gianni]

The Ruger Blackhawk for the reasons of the power available . BUT more because of it creating the loudest noise . Alaskan Grizzly turn and go the other way after a couple shots in the air ...........

Montana Grizzlies have been known to come in to shots as have Wyoming bears. Odds are a grouse getter would see far more use than a 45 but if it comforts you go for it.

[TheCelt]

Well, I got a LOT of information to digest!!!! Learned a few things I never considered before, like Midol and Chocolate for Altitude sickness, a lot of advice for Bear and Wolf mitigation (if needed), and the importance of keeping the weight down. As I am a flatlander I appreciate greatly all of the advice on hunting Elk in the high country. I'm getting a little "long in the tooth" and odds are good this is my last and best chance to hunt Elk in the high country so I want to be as prepared as possible. I sure appreciate the advice folks (even the tounge in cheek response about the 50 BMG pistol). To those of you that do hunt the high country and shared your wisdom I want Ya'll to know how grateful I am that you took the time to educate me.

[waksupi]

Anything you can do for physical conditioning will help. There is no tougher country to hunt elk in, than the Idaho Panhandle and north west Montana.

[TheCelt]

Anything you can do for physical conditioning will help. There is no tougher country to hunt elk in, than the Idaho Panhandle and north west Montana.

My health is a concern. Been doing some conditioning and based on some input here I've changed my plans to go up a few days early and acclimate to the altitude. It wouldn't matter if I was on my last leg though, I have to go. I've been dreaming of this hunt over 50 years and I doubt I'll get another chance like this. If need be I'll prop my back up against a tree and enjoy the wilderness like it used to be!!!!

[DougGuy]

TheCelt if you'd like some heavier, harder cast boolits, I have a handful of Beartooth 325gr WFN GC boolits that are oh BHN22 I guess, if you PM me and addy I will send them your way. Not a lot left but enough to get sighted in with and pack with you, I have good accuracy with these over 20.5gr of LilGun or 22.0 to 23.0gr of H110.

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb374/DougGuy/Reloading/0817336f-c785-469a-8484-bf9e4ba4f218_zps6b3e4dd8.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/DougGuy/media/Reloading/0817336f-c785-469a-8484-bf9e4ba4f218_zps6b3e4dd8.jpg.html)

[TheCelt]

[QUOTE=DougGuy;2362746]TheCelt if you'd like some heavier, harder cast boolits, I have a handful of Beartooth 325gr WFN GC boolits that are oh BHN22 I guess, if you PM me and addy I will send them your way. Not a lot left but enough to get sighted in with and pack with you, I have good accuracy with these over 20.5gr of LilGun or 22.0 to 23.0gr of H110.

I sure appreciate the offer but I'm gonna take what I normally shoot. Don't really have enough time to get used to a new load and I'm pretty accurate with the 255s. That sure is a serious looking boolit though!!!

[waksupi]

Bonners Ferry is only around 2000 feet, so altitude most likely won't be much of a concern. You might gain another 1000' in your hunting.
Oh! Take long johns, and some kind of warm coat, hat, and gloves. Weather can change fast and hard, even this early. I remember the stirrups dragging in the snow on Sept. 15 in the Great Bear Wilderness one early season.

[grubbylabs]

I have seen altitude sickness from a 1,000 feet cripple healthy young people. Granted they were prone to it, but none the less for the cost of a bottle of pills and a extra chocolate bare, I would go prepared. I don't remember what all was in the Midoll that helped, but I know that when those suffering from altitude sickness would take it, they would feel worlds better. A good quality chocolate with a high caffeine content is the kind of chocolate you want.

[TheCelt]

Bonners Ferry is only around 2000 feet, so altitude most likely won't be much of a concern. You might gain another 1000' in your hunting.
Oh! Take long johns, and some kind of warm coat, hat, and gloves. Weather can change fast and hard, even this early. I remember the stirrups dragging in the snow on Sept. 15 in the Great Bear Wilderness one early season.

Thanks Waksupi. Have the cold weather gear so I think I'm good to go!!!! I've been reading about altitude sickness and will take the precautions (meds) just in case. I guess I'll get a wolf tag while I'm there and do my part for wildlife conservation, I followed up on your comment and discovered wolf kills of stock is on the rise in the area. One outfitter (a grandmother) just shot a wolf that responded to her cow call while she was bowhunting in the area. Seems it attacked as soon as it saw her!

[cwheel]

Guess it's going to be a little easier on me as I live @5000 ft. now. Somehow we always end up going uphill, that's where the critters are right ?? At 64 I find myself fighting elevation more as I get older. On steep uphill walks, I'll set a pace counted in steps, lets use a example of 50 steps just to discuss it, do those steps, stop and let my heart rate return to normal before another 50. Even a old guy can do well if you listen to what your body is telling you. Breathing returns to normal quickly, but listen to your heart for it to return to normal before continuing. Speed doesn't help hunting, stopping, letting your heart rate return also gives you a chance to take a good look around before continuing. Our base camp ( hopefully ) in the Bonners Ferry area is just a place to park the trailer. Looking for hookups if possible, and I'm betting we won't find much outside of town. I'm sure we will be hunting much higher, or at least that is how it generally works out. It sure helps not to try to pack a 50 lb. pack up the hill. We generally only pack water for a day and other supplies in a butt pack, lite backpack to store clothes removed as the day heats up. Once a animal is on the ground, one stays with the animal, one goes for the cart, or quad. No gut work until the other returns, less attraction for other animals that way. Another tip is to keep 75 yards between you and the downed critter picking a spot to watch with a good view, until your partner returns. Once you open that gut, everything down wind for a few miles will know what's going on, natures dinner bell.
Chris

[waksupi]

Guess it's going to be a little easier on me as I live @5000 ft. now. Somehow we always end up going uphill, that's where the critters are right ?? At 64 I find myself fighting elevation more as I get older. On steep uphill walks, I'll set a pace counted in steps, lets use a example of 50 steps just to discuss it, do those steps, stop and let my heart rate return to normal before another 50. Even a old guy can do well if you listen to what your body is telling you. Breathing returns to normal quickly, but listen to your heart for it to return to normal before continuing. Speed doesn't help hunting, stopping, letting your heart rate return also gives you a chance to take a good look around before continuing. Our base camp ( hopefully ) in the Bonners Ferry area is just a place to park the trailer. Looking for hookups if possible, and I'm betting we won't find much outside of town. I'm sure we will be hunting much higher, or at least that is how it generally works out. It sure helps not to try to pack a 50 lb. pack up the hill. We generally only pack water for a day and other supplies in a butt pack, lite backpack to store clothes removed as the day heats up. Once a animal is on the ground, one stays with the animal, one goes for the cart, or quad. No gut work until the other returns, less attraction for other animals that way. Another tip is to keep 75 yards between you and the downed critter picking a spot to watch with a good view, until your partner returns. Once you open that gut, everything down wind for a few miles will know what's going on, natures dinner bell.
Chris

That kind of depends on weather. If it is warm at all, you really need to hump getting the guts out, hide off, and separating the shoulders in particular. They gas and sour real fast. I quarter up an elk, move the meat away from the gut pile, then worry about the packing.

PS - Midol is an excellent hangover remedy!

[white eagle]

when I was hunting in Idaho the bull I shot was a mere 20-25 yds away
1 shot through the heart and he was mine once I picked him out in the tangle we were in Yes up hill
seems as though everything in Idaho is up hill shoot our crapper was even up hill
beautiful country though
you have been given some excellent advice from some very experienced men that live in that country
heed their advice and have fun but keep one eye watching the back door

[TheCelt]

when I was hunting in Idaho the bull I shot was a mere 20-25 yds away
1 shot through the heart and he was mine once I picked him out in the tangle we were in Yes up hill
seems as though everything in Idaho is up hill shoot our crapper was even up hill
beautiful country though
you have been given some excellent advice from some very experienced men that live in that country
heed their advice and have fun but keep one eye watching the back door

I have received good advice from hunters experienced with the animals and terrain of the area as well as MANY good tips for a successful hunt I had not even considered!!! This is one of the few forums I have participated in that allows you to ask questions without being talked down to. I am grateful to every everyone that responded and I'll let Ya'll know how I do when I get back!!!

[cwheel]

And Wakisupi caught something important. If it's warm or taking the deer out is more than half hour away, we gut it right now. All the difference in how the meat turns out. Warm weather kill in Idaho deer season just doesn't seam to happen with us. Memories of dragging out through ice and snow, memories of having to have a second line on the back of the deer cart to keep it from passing you on the trail on downhill are more common. With these strange weather patterns of late, who knows, could be hunting in a t shirt instead of 3 layers of clothing in a moderate snow fall. And, lastly, there are a few of us old guys getting hauled off the hill in a bag every year. If you can't get the heart rate back no matter what, feel bad, get off the hill and try another day, do something else that day. I will allow myself at least a half a day + when I move from my home elevation up to 9500 to hunt the Sierra Crest. I just kick back in camp and let my body adjust to the elevation and less oxygen in the air. Good luck,
Chris

[grubbylabs]

Where I live and hunt elk in New Mexico almost nothing is below 6,000 ft elev.
I had no idea you could hunt elk and still have oxygen to breath in Idaho. LOL

I know a few spots I can take you that will allow you to use your oxygen mask. I would not shoot an elk in some of the places that come to mind no matter how big the rack. It is a personal rule I have, If I can look over the edge of the trail and still have no idea where or how far down the bottom might be, don't shoot any thing.

[waksupi]

I know a few spots I can take you that will allow you to use your oxygen mask. I would not shoot an elk in some of the places that come to mind no matter how big the rack. It is a personal rule I have, If I can look over the edge of the trail and still have no idea where or how far down the bottom might be, don't shoot any thing.

Boy, ain't that the truth. Some of those elk are just for lookin' at. Back when I was young and dumb, I was involved in more than one situation it took four days to get an elk out of black timber or snow willows.

[Cosmiceyes]

I am going on a 14 day Elk hunt in Northern Idaho not far from the Canadian border. I have never hunted Elk or the high country, having spent my life in the Southern woods hunting whitetails. My cousin David (who is ramrodding the whole deal) suggested that in addition to my Win Model 70 .338 Win Mag I should have a suitable sidearm. I own several 1911 45s and a couple of Ruger SA in 45 Colt. What would be the best pistol to take. Should I get something else??? I never thought much about a sidearm while hunting but I guess it'd be a good idea in Bear country. Ya'll got any suggestions???

Bears are odd ducks during hunting season. If enough banging is going on you'll never see them. They'll be out at night. The 45 Colt will do the best deal. I would make sure of your load with it. Have someone roll tires with targets in them for you to shoot at.It's not the one charging straight at you that's the problem.You may need to save someone else's hide! :)'s

[Ken TN]

Good luck with the hunt. Living at 6,000 ft I can tell you the main thing is to drink LOTS of water. Nothing starts Altitude sickness faster than be dehydrated. I'd second a oxygen count meter from Walgreens or other Rx store. That and heart rate need to be monitored if you are coming from the flatlands....I'm from the Texas Gulf Coast and can tell you it takes a while to adjust to the altitude.

Last weekend I drove up over to the west side of the Rockies thru Rocky Mnt National park. We were up at the peak about 11,700 ft at about 9 PM and what a sight! 30 elk in the moon light just before the entrance to the visitors center. Sure made me wish it was legal and I would have loved to drop one with my Marlin 1895 Cowboy...Oh well we saw a cow Moose coming home the next day...Tough weekend to be in a no hunting area and see all the wildlife.

I carry a 45 LC in either my Ruger Bisley 5 1/2" or my Birdshead Vaquero. Having used them in Cowboy action Shooting I feel very good about hitting my targets and quick shooting. Take what you shoot well.
Enjoy the time there.

[BruceB]

Over forty years ago, I found that the more-or-less standard .44 Magnum pistol is a VERY capable instrument.

The gun: Ruger Super Backhawk, 7.5" barrel

Bullet: 429244, slightly-softened linotype, weight 265 grains

Load: 22 grains 2400, Large Pistol primer

As a natter of interest, being experimentally minded even that far back, I fired these loads into the carcasses of freshly-killed adult moose and adult Wood Bison. The largest "sample" animal was a good bit OVER 1000 pounds live weight, based on careful weighing of the meat going into the freezer.

"Freshly killed" means that the blood was still running, and in some cases the .44 was used for a coup de grace... FRESH.

IN EVERY CASE, likely a dozen or so critters, those 265-grain SWCs penetrated COMPLETELY THROUGH the animals on broadside shoulder shots, with enough remaining energy to throw up considerable dirt on the far side.

This was ample proof for me to believe that I needed NO heavier cast bullet in .44 Magnum pistols, and I still believe that. My subject animals were bigger than virtually any bear existing in the Northwest Territories (where I lived at the time) , and there are some BIG ones up there. My .44 load offered more than sufficient penetration to deal with any bear in North America, as far as getting into the vitals is concerned.

By choice, I'd still prefer a good rifle.... but we are discussing handguns for a worst-case situation. For my part, I'd sleep securely with a .44 handy in bear country....ehy not? I've already done it many times in griz and polar-bear country as well as that of the ubiquitous black bear.

[waksupi]

Agreed, Bruce. I always figured if you needed a heavier bullet in a .44, Elmer would have been using them.

[BRobertson]

I have killed several live moose with a .44 over the years here in Alaska. Also 4 grizzly/brown bear. Have hunted exclusively with a .44 revolver since I was 18 years old. Been in on a lot more with hunters that I was guiding.

In the early years, I was always careful about shot placement, or more careful I should say, with the 240 to 265 gr jacketed bullets I was using. I did not take frontal shots, and preferred , behind the shoulder lung shots.

The first grizzly I killed with a handgun, was with my S&W mod 29, and still my biggest that I have shot for myself,so far. He was approx. 8 1/2 ft. I was using the old, original 240 Sierra, because from experience I knew that they would not expand , and penetrated very well, basically performing like a solid.
The bullet entered between the front shoulder and neck and ended up in the rear ham. It was slightly deformed from striking the rear leg joint. The bear died within about 15 to 20 seconds, and ran about 25 yds from where he was eating a salmon.

Then J.D. Jones came up with the heavy cast bullets, SSK /NEI, and I am convinced, made a different gun out of the .44, at least for my uses!!

With the SSK's, 310 gr from my alloy, I am confident of complete penetration from any angle. I ALWAYS prefer complete penetration on anything that I shoot. A .44 LBT will leave a 1 inch hole all the way through, and this creates a LOT of damage!!

I eventually gravitated to the LBT s in the early 80s when I got my .500 and .475 Linebaughs.

I feel that there is a big difference in potential penetration of the 240/265 grain .44s,
and the 300+ .44s, if they are of similar construction.

I would be very willing to take a frontal shot on a big Alaska moose or brown bear with a 305gr LBT LFN,

but not with the lighter weights!!

Bob

[BRobertson]

I should add, that I have never recovered an SSK 310 gr or an LBT 300+ gr bullet from anything.

I am hoping to get a chance this November to try a frontal shot on a Mountain goat. I would like to get at least one more before I get too old to hunt them. They are our most underrated game animal, and by far our most dangerous to hunt!! Because of the terrain they inhabit of course!!

I want to hit one in the brisket with a 300 LBT LFN and see what effect it has when it bores on through and comes out his tail!!. I have never seen one actually hammered to the point that it showed the instant affect of being hit!! That includes
one of our hunters that hit his big billy in the shoulders with a .338 250 gr Nosler Part.

If elephants were as tough as the goats, pound for pound, you would have to hunt them with M 1 tanks!!!

Bob

[DougGuy]

I haven't had Elk meat yet. I hear it is delicious, but I can sure tell you how GOOD mountain goat is! OMG.. Slow cooked in the oven with taters and veggies in gravy in a closed roasting pan.

[lino]

Have hunted in Idaho for half a century - because I live here. Have been charged by black bears three times. They move incredibly fast. They cause almost numbing fear. If you are in heavy cover it could be on you before you could clear a holster or even raise an already held gun. I own 25 handguns, big hole and small. I don't have one I'd want for bear protection. Listen to the lads that talk about large rifle calibers or a shotgun with slugs. Even so, if things are in the bear's favor, make sure the wife knows where you
r insurance policy is.

[Idaho Mule]

Celt, I sure look forward to hearing of your elk kill. You have gotten excellent advice here and I just hope a big chunk of luck comes your way and you score big. As Waksupi said tho, if the weather is warm you will want to get the guts out quick. Best of luck to you and welcome to Idaho. JW

[Phoenix]

I deal with bears at least weekly. Especially this time of year. My experience with charging bears is SHOTGUN. first shell 7.5 shot game load and OO Buck (or slug). The 7.5 will blind the bear first shot which gives you a serious advantage. I used to carry a 45 for that purpose. I now carry my 590A1 Shotgun. The 7.5 is amazingly effective as the bear will take massive tissue damage and loose at least one eye from the first shot. (unless you miss from being scared S_itless)

I have had this discussion with several locals. We have black bears, Cinnamon brown bears, and Grizzlies (not many but it only takes one) Friday we came across two yearlings mock fighting in the middle of my driveway. They are out everywhere right now eating Choke cherries, Service berries, Black currants, even wax currants (yuk).

Very loud bang, massive tissue damage, And blinded a bear becomes allot less of a threat. If you cant deter/drop a bear with 8 shots you are missing allot.

One of my neighbors got charged last year. He was carrying this exact combination. Bear turned and ran after first shot. Not sure how messed up he was but nonetheless he was no longer a threat. This even only solidified my belief in the combination.

[BRobertson]

I deal with bears at least weekly. Especially this time of year. My experience with charging bears is SHOTGUN. Alternating 7.5 shot game load and OO Buck (or slug). The 7.5 will blind the bear first shot which gives you a serious advantage. I used to carry a 45 for that purpose. I now carry my 590A1 Shotgun. The 7.5 is amazingly effective as the bear will take massive tissue damage and loose at least one eye from the first shot. (unless you miss from being scared S_itless)

I have had this discussion with several locals. We have black bears, Cinnamon brown bears, and Grizzlies (not many but it only takes one) Friday we came across two yearlings mock fighting in the middle of my driveway. They are out everywhere right now eating Choke cherries, Service berries, Black currants, even wax currants (yuk).

Very loud bang, massive tissue damage, And blinded a bear becomes allot less of a threat. If you cant deter/drop a bear with 8 shots you are missing allot.

One of my neighbors got charged last year. He was carrying this exact combination. Bear turned and ran after first shot. Not sure how messed up he was but nonetheless he was no longer a threat. This even only solidified my belief in the combination.

I hope you are not serious about the bird shot!!!

[Phoenix]

The purpose of the 7.5 is to hurt, scare, and blind the bear. It really does work very well. Multiple people out here have survived bear charges unscathed using this setup. I take the results more seriously than anecdotal info.

I thought it was crazy at first too, but after thinking about it and knowing people that have successfully used it I am a believer.
This has ended charges from two of the three of the bear types we have. I used to be in the "You need a hand cannon or big magnum to stop a bear" I am now a believer in the method.

I seriously considered changing out for #2 shot for the above purpose. The point is buckshot doesn't have enough pellets to increase the likelyhood of an eye shot. The 7.5 was never intended to seriously injure the bear. Just inflict heavy facial damage and blindness. Their face isnt nearly as tough as the rest of their body.

Think whatever you want. But it works.

[jmort]

I will defer to most anybody, especially someone who is in the process of making me two perfect ingot molds, but how many shots can you count on firing? Any more than one shot would be a "bonus." Bears can move way fast. I would go with something like the Dixie Slugs Tri-ball. Two or three .575/.600 hard cast round balls. Twin-ball, or Tri-ball, should take the fight out of any animal including the biggest, baddest bear. As to the O/P, check out Belt Mountain Punch Bullets. They dominate handgun penetration testing at the Linebaugh Seminars. http://www.beltmountain.com/punch.htm

[Phoenix]

I understand and agree that two shots would be a max unless you see him coming from a distance. And I agree anything with serious stopping power is a good thing. My first shell is light shot for one reason. Blinding. Anything heavier wouldn't help that goal.

I was just as skeptical as anyone until I saw the results. Losing your eyes stops all baddies.

[Dean D.]

Good luck Celt! I pack a .45 Colt RBH when I'm in the woods up here.

You'll be hunting in my old stompin grounds. I'm 35 miles West of Sandpoint just across the state line, if you get into trouble feel free to give me a call. You can PM me if you'd like the phone number.

[Phoenix]

Yes good luck, elk is good eating. Serious sense of accomplishment getting your first one as well

[Three44s]

A shotgun would be a fine instrument if one were simply out fishing or hiking but the OP is there to hunt elk.

I suspect that two long guns are not his forte.

Any heavy long gun would be fine as long as you have adequate control of it ... a .338 WM is certainly up to the task.

But I have yet to see a hunter that can dress out their elk and have their long gun ready .......... goes for packing it out and for nature breaks .........

And that brings us back to a handgun or spray or both.

I have more faith in a weapon that does not have to be shaken before it's used.

By the time you can use spray assuming you already shook it ...... it's too late for a handgun and likely even praying if the spray did not impress it. Now if you are downwind, that pepper spray might just impress the dickens out of the shooter ..... but it would'nt generate a good outcome.

I think the OP is on the right track packin' his .45 Ruger with the slugs he's used to.

Also, the poster with the 310 WFN's running end to end gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about my .480 Ruger!

The Smith 329 (Scandium .44 mag) was mentioned as too much recoil by some .... I disagree. I shoot my .44 Mountain gun and the 329 I shot with bear loads was not that much more recoil. If you needed one and had taken the time to work with it ...... you'd use it. Way better than large bandaids.

Best regards

Three 44s

[Lead Fred]

A bud of mine kilt two bear in AK with a 40 cal, using black talon style rounds.

Me, every time I hit the out back, my Sig P220 and two mags of 45(acp) will be hangin off me belt.

I just loaned to my BFF who is gone a on retreat in bear country.

He has The Lord & Sig Sauer on his side.

[TheCelt]

Celt, I sure look forward to hearing of your elk kill. You have gotten excellent advice here and I just hope a big chunk of luck comes your way and you score big. As Waksupi said tho, if the weather is warm you will want to get the guts out quick. Best of luck to you and welcome to Idaho. JW

Sure appreciate it JW, I'm hoping that I am successful as this is my one and only chance to make good on a lifelong dream. Truth be told even if I don't score an Elk the opportunity to hunt Northern Idaho, fish the lakes and spend time with my cousins is priceless!

[BRobertson]

Sure appreciate it JW, I'm hoping that I am successful as this is my one and only chance to make good on a lifelong dream. Truth be told even if I don't score an Elk the opportunity to hunt Northern Idaho, fish the lakes and spend time with my cousins is priceless!

I say AMEN to that!!! Memories of things like that are the best things we have!!!!

Especially as we get older!! Us old farts know the value of such things!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bob

[BRobertson]

If bear spray to the face works, then a 12 gauge with bird shot in the face works better :guntootsmilie:

Not a fan of bear spray!!!

Works good on dogs though!!

[waksupi]

Sure appreciate it JW, I'm hoping that I am successful as this is my one and only chance to make good on a lifelong dream. Truth be told even if I don't score an Elk the opportunity to hunt Northern Idaho, fish the lakes and spend time with my cousins is priceless!

Try fishing the Kootenai River just north. Great blue ribbon stream.

[TheCelt]

Try fishing the Kootenai River just north. Great blue ribbon stream.

Thanks Waksupi! Appreciate the fishing tip, as well as other sage words of wisdom!!!

[unclogum bill]

A old Montanan explained this to me some 35 years ago. Bill he said ,Elk hunting is hard and costly. Gun , licence , 4 wheel drive and to do it right horses and a trailer. Really what you need to do is buy my old cow out there for 200.00 bucks , I'll loan you my gun , if you want it to taste like elk, gut shoot it, run it around the pen 20 minutes before you drop it. The best complement anyone will ever give you is "it tastes like beef. Might as well start with beef then. Looking back on Perry's advice , I concede he had a point. On the other side I had a Cabin in Lincoln Montana and listening to them bugle was quite the lure to be a woodsman. I dropped them with a 270 Howa with a 9x scope. Those old enough to remember Jack O'Corner might remember he thought that gun was a perfect caliber , I tend to agree.

[waksupi]

One other thought, while you are in that area Buffalo Arms is in Sandpoint, very close to where you will be. You might want to stop in there and say hi.

[TheCelt]

One other thought, while you are in that area Buffalo Arms is in Sandpoint, very close to where you will be. You might want to stop in there and say hi.

Believe I'll do that Waksupi! I've done a good bit of business with those folks in the past. Just ordered a custom .340" sizer die for a Lyman 4500 so I can size the 341365 Boolits from the GB.

[deep creek]

when i hunt elk here in idaho i use my ruger no 1 338 win mag 225gr hornady at 3000 fps.never lost an animal.last grizzly i met i told him id shoot him if he came past that downed tree.he never did he yelled and hollered alot but never crossed the tree.i never moved,i think he knew i had the differance!after he left i had to go find a bush.oh by the way i just carry a .22pistol for chickens.;-)

[TheCelt]

when i hunt elk here in idaho i use my ruger no 1 338 win mag 225gr hornady at 3000 fps.never lost an animal.last grizzly i met i told him id shoot him if he came past that downed tree.he never did he yelled and hollered alot but never crossed the tree.i never moved,i think he knew i had the differance!after he left i had to go find a bush.oh by the way i just carry a .22pistol for chickens.;-)

Yea, sounds like I'd need a large roll of TP after that!!! You shooting the 225gr SST? Have heard that it is a VERY effective bullet in the .338 WM.

[TheCelt]

81263My cousin sent me a few pictures of the camp and hunting area, looks like fun!!!8126181262

[300savage]

Oh my word your going to have such a great time.
Wear a bandana around your neck while you sitting around the campfire at night, and then just stick it in a zip lock bag on the last day.
From then on when you look at the pictures of your trip and you smell that bandana it will take you back there.
Kind of like the old girlfriends scarf thing, only better.

Elk camp smoke trumps perfume any day, even when I was young.

[deep creek]

I just shoot the 225 hornady sp interlock its magic!turns elk into steaks roasts and burger:-o

[TheCelt]

I just shoot the 225 hornady sp interlock its magic!turns elk minto steaks roasts and burger:-o

From what I've read the SST is an Interlock with a plastic tip. I hope I enjoy your success, Elk steaks sound pretty good!!!!

[Slow Elk 45/70]

Celt, I hope you enjoy your trip, great country that, if the wolves haven't killed off all the elk!!!! I have friends there that say it is un real what they have done to the elk/deer populations...we have to thin the wolves some every now and then in AK:guntootsmiley:...when ever we see one.:bigsmyl2:

[TheCelt]

Celt, I hope you enjoy your trip, great country that, if the wolves haven't killed off all the elk!!!! I have friends there that say it is un real what they have done to the elk/deer populations...we have to thin the wolves some every now and then in AK:guntootsmiley:...when ever we see one.:bigsmyl2:

I've been hearing the same thing. My cousin said the Elk have suffered because of the unchecked wolf population so I plan on doing my bit and pulling a wolf tag as well as an Elk tag.

[tygar]

Hi, good luck on your hunt. You didn't say if you will be in Grizzly country, but I'm assuming it is.

If it's black bear anything that starts with a "4" should be good, although it should be double action, not single. If your worried about Grizzly then you better get a "real" gun.

I lived & hunted in Alaska for over 20yrs, during 4 decades & have shot Canadian Grizzly, Oregon & Washington Black bear & Alaskan, Blacks, Grizzly & Browns.

When the 44Mag was the biggest & badest, that's what I carried, when the .454 became known, that's what I carried & when the 460 & 500 came out I tried them both & settled on the 500.

Now will your .45 Colt kill a grizzly, yes, maybe, maybe after you shot him in the heart & he ran 100yds, then killed you, then died. The same thing can be said for any of the pistols & lots of rifles, but this is for sure the time when, bigger is better!

I've dropped Browns with one shot & they didn't take a step, I've had them run 100yds & drop & I've shot them 3 times before they died. I use a .375 H&H mostly but when hunting Caribou with a .300 I carry some 225 Barns SPs & they worked OK the 1 time I had to use it.

True story, a friend & his brother were hunting bear in the Ketchikan area & found a BB down in a creek bed at less than 50 yds. Short story, after 11 rounds of 375 & 300 in the chest/shoulder area the bear finally dropped, while trying to climb up the creek bank after them.

Bears have been killed with .22s, the AK natives frequently hunt moose & bear with .223s from sno machines or 4 wheelers & shoot them a bunch of times & chase them till they drop. Not something I want to do - for many reasons.

You may never have to use any handgun, even if you see a bear, even if they charge, but you might have to.

If a bear charges & you shoot it first at 25 yds, with your SA .45 you will get off "1" shot before the bear gets to you.

With a double action, if you practice, you can get off 3. 3 is lots better than 1.

A bear is reallllllly fast. As fast as a german shepherd for a short distance, & can be very hard to kill.

I did a lot of back country stuff & especially fishing when the bears are out fishing themselves & it's basically impractical to carry a rifle or shotgun & have it handy enough to get at in a close-in situation. A pistol should be much easier to access.

For what its worth. The most powerful you can shoot accurately, double action.

[Gunnut 45/454]

Of the two you mentioned - the 45 LC with 300 gr WFN's over atleast 20 gr H110/W296. If the bear is still comin and you've emptied your rifle and you have time it should be able to break a shoulder and turn any Bear! Save the head shot when your hands is in the mouth. Been alot of attacks this year and the bears up there consider a rifle shot the dinner bell- hunt with a partner so one can watch while the other dresses out!

[1bluehorse]

If you feel the need for a handgun the 45 colt would be a stellar choice...as said, loaded big and fast it will kill pretty much anything you'll find in Ideehoo...lots of talk about Grizzly bears on here..a bit of information on Grizzlys in the lower 48...there are less than 1500 spread out in 4 states, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho and Washington with the largest population being in the Glacier area...so chances are pretty slim you'll be running into one..also the Grizzly bear in the lower 48 are much smaller than the Alaskan browns..an adult male down here run 6ish ft and weigh from 350 to 850lbs...(still nothing to sneeze at for sure) and contrary to popular opinion, they're not always "charging" you at 35mph....I've actually heard accounts of them running the other way....crazy I know, but first hand accounts...go figure...:bigsmyl2:

[GabbyM]

My daughter and her husband just returned from an archery hunt in there state of AZ. Some small black bear and occasional mountain Lion but most fearsome are those packs of coyotes. If you get yourself hurt and can’t move much. She carried the S&W M-15 in 38 Special I gave her for Christmas last year. 150 grain cast TC at around 900 fps. She weighs about 115 pounds. Straps it on in the morning and takes it off when she bunks down. Since there are no big Grizzly or anything I’d say the 38 Special is adequate. Ammo is light enough she can carry a good supply. Her husband has an old 3” M-19 in 357 mag that his grandfather carried on AZ mounted posse work. He was an AZ corrections officer back in the days AZ was still pretty wild. So the ammo load is somewhat interchangeable. People do regularly disappear without a trace in AZ. I like to have something to fight with after one arm is broken from a fall.

From accounts I've heard. Main difference between coyote and wolf is yote packs will retreat when you put up a good fight. Here locally a mother with a broom was enough to run a pair off of her daughter. I think a pair of hungry Wolves would of simply killed them both. But you still have to fight. An elderly man I've known all my life went down in a bean field a few years ago. Small critters like rats and other vermin were eating him alive. Until a dog from a farm house almost half mile away came and spent the night guarding him. He was found next morning by aerial search. I'm personally comforted from my 380 acp when I’m out and about on the farm. Especially in a been or corn field you can’t even find a sharp stick.

[TheCelt]

I agree Gabby, tailoring the weapon to the target is important! I think the main difference between the yotes and Wolves is size, mature male wolfs are running 150 lbs., about three times the size of the yotes and will attack no matter if you're wounded or not!!!. I believe the 45 with 255gr Boolits will be with me.

[58 Siesta]

I live and hunt in northwestern Montana. In archery, it's the bow, my 4" 44 with 310 hardcast and bearspray. In rifle, it's the spray in addition to the hunting tool. Keep the wheelgun in camp so you can carry it while packing meat, but carry your spray with your rifle while hunting. You don't need to be a good shot with the spray and it's effective. I never had to deploy it, but have come very close on a couple bluff charges. Good friends have deployed spray on both griz and blackies with desired results all around. Never fire a "warning" shot with a gun when you feel threatened by a bear. Up here they come looking for food when they hear that noise, it's a dinner bell not something they fear. My ferrier had a big griz come right to him after he fired a warning shot from his 44, then he had to spray it in the face (inside 10 yards). The bear lost interest after being sprayed.

[Aunegl]

Interesting, I remember reading that the last grizzly bear was killed in AZ during the 1930s.

[waksupi]

Interesting, I remember reading that the last grizzly bear was killed in AZ during the 1930s.

Yeah, I remember an extinct grizzly bear mauling a hunter in Colorado a few years ago, too!
:shock:

[enoch59]

Great posts and super thread. I encourage the older hunters to get as much time as possible to acclimate themselves to their hunting areas before the hunt actually begins. I lived in the lake Tahoe area for several winters and I can tell you that altitude sickness is so real and you can count on it hitting you if you don't prepare. I've had so many folks come up from the flats for the weekend or even longer and had them stay on the couch for the whole time they were with me completely exhausted.
I am also in bear country and I hunt with a 444 and I carry a 1911 with 230 gr. cast ball ammo. I believe as others that I can get off many more shots with that weapon as I could with my 44 Ruger blackhawk. Just for note, Grizz have been sighted in the Cascades of Oregon for at least five years or so. They will make their way down to New Mexico eventually if they haven't already. Wouldn't that be great to go hunting and not know if you were going to come home with meat or not come home at all !! Now that would add a little excitement to the hunt and maybe get rid of the nitwits that seem to populate our mountain areas during hunting seasons.
Please post pictures of your hunt. I'll be hunting Elk this year in the Diamond Lake area of So.Oregon. I'll try to post some pics of that hunt in November.

[TheCelt]

Great posts and super thread. I encourage the older hunters to get as much time as possible to acclimate themselves to their hunting areas before the hunt actually begins. I lived in the lake Tahoe area for several winters and I can tell you that altitude sickness is so real and you can count on it hitting you if you don't prepare. I've had so many folks come up from the flats for the weekend or even longer and had them stay on the couch for the whole time they were with me completely exhausted.
I am also in bear country and I hunt with a 444 and I carry a 1911 with 230 gr. cast ball ammo. I believe as others that I can get off many more shots with that weapon as I could with my 44 Ruger blackhawk. Just for note, Grizz have been sighted in the Cascades of Oregon for at least five years or so. They will make their way down to New Mexico eventually if they haven't already. Wouldn't that be great to go hunting and not know if you were going to come home with meat or not come home at all !! Now that would add a little excitement to the hunt and maybe get rid of the nitwits that seem to populate our mountain areas during hunting seasons.
Please post pictures of your hunt. I'll be hunting Elk this year in the Diamond Lake area of So.Oregon. I'll try to post some pics of that hunt in November.

Enoch, I will post photos when I get back!!! I leave for Spokane in a few weeks and will be picked up by my cousin who will take me to Moyie Springs, ID. We pick up his mules there and head North!!! I'll be hunting with my cousins which is something special to me (it's been 47 years since we were all together) and I am pumped!!! After talking to My cousin David who has lived in the panhandle of Idaho for many years I am convinced the wolves are a much greater threat than Bears. I have learned a lot from the experienced folks in this group too. When I put it all together I still get a warm fuzzy from the combination of the 338 Win Mag (Elk, Deer and Griz) and the HOT loaded 45 Colt RBH. I figure the three rounds in the rifle and the six in the wheelgun ought to dissuade even the most grievous critter. You are right about hunting while being a possible snack !! I have never hunted anywhere that I was part of the food chain and it sure does add an element to the hunt I have never experienced before. Never had to worry about Yotes trying to take a deer away from me down here (although they have gotten much bolder and more aggressive of late) and a good pair of snake boots is about all the special gear you need for early fall hunting. This hunt is on tap to be a pinnacle event in my life. I have dreamed for years of a hunt like this and to have it so close to reality is overwhelming. Thanks to the High Country hunters, ranchers and good folks of this group I feel Like I am much better prepared than before and I think their advice will benefit me greatly. Thanks to all!!!!

[waksupi]

Once you are at Moyie Springs, you're darn near to British Columbia. Love that area.
It is possible you may ever see a caribou in that area, as they sometimes drop down across the border there.

[Three44s]

You are still on the right track!

Have a great time!!! ......... and we'll be waiting for a FULL report!!

Best regards

Three 44s

[TheCelt]

Once you are at Moyie Springs, you're darn near to British Columbia. Love that area.
It is possible you may ever see a caribou in that area, as they sometimes drop down across the border there.

Now THAT would be icing on the cake!!!! National Geographic is as close as I've got to a Caribou!!!

[sixshot]

A friend was bowhunting last week & when he rode the horse into his camp a bear came running out of his tent. It had made a little mess of the grub box but must have just got there ahead of him, most of his stuff was OK. Two days later he shot a raghorn bull a couple of hours before dark, got the bull dressed out & propped open so it would cool out. Left his bow sitting on top of the bull along with a spare pair of gloves & rode back to camp. The next morning when him & his son got back there a bear had been on it, eating the lions & part of one hind quarter. Pretty common in some parts of Idaho. He didn't see the second bear but figured it was probably a different one because of the distance he had rode, not sure. Again, always have a varmint call with you, it can provide some very exciting bear hunting.

Dick

[429421Cowboy]

Most wilderness areas here require bearproof food storage, seems to only be good business since a fed bear is a dead bear! Same with conditioning bears to a free meal from critters that aren't watched or hung up, especially when it results in a hunter getting hurt by a bear that knows he can get a belly full from a fresh elk. Pack your food up right and keep your meat away from the gutpile and hung up to keep bears from becoming a problem! We all carry a small tarp in our packs that the gutpile gets rolled onto and drug away from the carcass first thing to help with the bear problem.

[cwheel]

Great post so far, made me re-think what rounds I pack in my 45 acp. Thinking this year I'll alternate the Winchester LE +p hollow points and hardball. The Winchester passes the FBI penetration test, but that isn't a bear. In 30 years + of packing this thing, never had to use it for a bear. Sure have seen them, much more, but not have to use. Thinking before I depart, will fire some test rounds into a small chunk of bullet proof sheet rock I have and see what rounds do what. Packing a heavier pistol is out due to the extra weight that will have to be packed up the hill with this 64 year old body. My trailer is mostly packed now waiting for the next few weeks to pass. We depart on 12th and should get into that area couple of days later. Can't wait to get on the road driving up highway 95. Thinking this trip up there will end up being more of a scouting trip as this is the first trip into that part of Idaho. Looks like your camp will be 8.5 miles out of Bonners Ferry, our first camp. Might run into your group. First task is looking around and getting into a hunter friendly RV camp and branching out from there. Some of those places cringe if you have a deer hanging in camp. Little, if any info on line found so far. Good luck,
Chris

[TheCelt]

Looks like your camp will be 8.5 miles out of Bonners Ferry, our first camp. Might run into your group. First task is looking around and getting into a hunter friendly RV camp and branching out from there. Some of those places cringe if you have a deer hanging in camp. Little, if any info on line found so far. Good luck,
Chris

I'd be great to run in to you folks!!! Good luck to you too Chris, hope to see ya on the trail!!!

[waksupi]

Most wilderness areas here require bearproof food storage, seems to only be good business since a fed bear is a dead bear! Same with conditioning bears to a free meal from critters that aren't watched or hung up, especially when it results in a hunter getting hurt by a bear that knows he can get a belly full from a fresh elk. Pack your food up right and keep your meat away from the gutpile and hung up to keep bears from becoming a problem! We all carry a small tarp in our packs that the gutpile gets rolled onto and drug away from the carcass first thing to help with the bear problem.

Yep, keep the food out of camp. Last week someone had a bear break out the car windows to get their picnic.

On hollow points in pistols and bears. Hollow points will get filled full of the hair, and pretty much stop a bullet.

[Idaho Mule]

This thread is getting pretty exciting!! I sure wish you guys the best of luck cuz I can't wait to hear the stories. Celt, that 45 Colt will be plenty for bear and I doubt you will need it for that (sure hope not anyway). cwheel, if you are driving 95 I am just north of Moscow and have room for campers if you need, right along the highway, and about 4 1/2 hrs. south of Bonner's. PM me if you need info on that. I also hope you guys know that there are some pretty respectable white-tail and mule deer in that area. I know out of state tags are spendy but I have seen some real toads from up in the Bonner's area. JW

[cwheel]

Waksupi, I have enough concerns about hollow point penetration now that in the next couple of days I'm going to do a test. I have a small chunk of bullet proof sheet rock that I'll fire my cast ball reloads, jacketed ball, and the Winchester LE +p hollow points into at about 10 ft. I choose 10ft because that distance would be likely the last shot you would get at a charging animal, little or no time for a follow up shot after that point. Results should be interesting. My round nose ball is lee 225 gr round nose over 6gr. of Unique. This sheet rock is actually a backing used on top of wall studs in some high security buildings where shootings are a possibility. This 1/4" fiberglass like material might not let any of these rounds pass. In that case, will look for the most penetration and damage. Thinking that hair or no hair, whatever does the best job on this stuff would penetrate any animal likely to be encountered. Expansion is another issue, but penetration would be the first place to start. Shot placement on any animal is vital as well. If I can get results worth a pic, I'll post one. Idaho Mule,I talked to fish and game in Coeur d'Alene and they say still plenty of tags, and because of the mixed White Tail and Mule Deer population in that area, we would be best buying a general deer tag to go after either. Thanks for the offer on the place to stay, might take you up on it, depends on where we are and when. Thanks again
Chris

[TheCelt]

This thread is getting pretty exciting!! I sure wish you guys the best of luck cuz I can't wait to hear the stories. Celt, that 45 Colt will be plenty for bear and I doubt you will need it for that (sure hope not anyway). cwheel, if you are driving 95 I am just north of Moscow and have room for campers if you need, right along the highway, and about 4 1/2 hrs. south of Bonner's. PM me if you need info on that. I also hope you guys know that there are some pretty respectable white-tail and mule deer in that area. I know out of state tags are spendy but I have seen some real toads from up in the Bonner's area. JW

Well Sir, seeing how this is probably my best chance at an Elk or a big Mule Deer I'm going in the hole for both tags. From what I hear the prospects are good for one or the other. The closer to the date the more excited I get!!! Got everything packed and all my ammo loaded up, now I just have to wait a few weeks to go!!!! I swear, I've packed about every piece of hunting gear I've ever owned and have driven the stock prices for Cabella's and Powder Valley up two points by myself!!!

[300savage]

celt just a thought,, i am running a 255grn lee WFN that i got from101airborne on this site over 11grns of 2400 out of my glock 21 and my kimber.
havent chronied the kimber yet but out of the glock i am getting an honest 915fps.
that my friend smacks the hell out of things.

[TheCelt]

celt just a thought,, i am running a 255grn lee WFN that i got from101airborne on this site over 11grns of 2400 out of my glock 21 and my kimber.
havent chronied the kimber yet but out of the glock i am getting an honest 915fps.
that my friend smacks the hell out of things.

That'll dang sure put a smack down on 'em to be sure!!! I'd feel good about that load anywhere. If you get the same numbers in the Kimber that'd sure tend to swing the vote back to the 1911 as the 255 SWC in the RBH is doing about 950 fps.

BTW, How are ya feelin??? Hope you are mending well Pard!

[300savage]

Well the Glock 21 has a 4.6 " barrel, and my Kimber has a 4" so I imagine that the Glock will be just a tick faster.
Plus I have found Glocks to be a few fps faster than other pistols of equal barrel length.
I would imagine that if you have the standard 5" Govt model length 1911 it is going to be shooting about with the Glock.

As to how I am feeling, well I happen to be up at this hour taking a pain pill.
I didn't take one when I went to bed because I like to wean myself off the narcotics as quickly as possible after a surgery. Dam things are too easy to get to liking when your face has already worn out two bodies.
But that rat trying to eat his way out of my pelvis through my scrotum woke me up..

Had a good day however, probably did too much seeing as how I have been ordered by my doctor and about two dozen good ladies from my Church to spend the next thirty days with no weight on my feet at all.
But I had been out of the loop all last week due to that dam pnuemonia and the surgery and my wife and mother in law had only had much success getting themselves confused trying to figure out the cattle market and how to figure shrink and slide and all them other things buyers use to confuse pretty ranchwives.
I don't know why they instantly go into panic mode when something happens to me, its like they have to figure everything out instantly in case I don't come out of it.
So anyway I got to spend yesterday showing cattle and trying to straighten out a few things with some buyers .
After mentioning that they might have to go back and sharpen their pencils or I was going to sell these beggers to someone else they somehow came up with some more money..

So i got a deal made on all of the calves.
Sold the big steers at $1.50 weighing 675, and the little steers at $1.65 weighing 625.
The most I have ever sold a calf crop for in my life, thats over a grand apiece for the big calves.
Its about time, maybe a rancher can get a little back for a change instead of losing their butts to live a life they love.
Dang those little yellow pills make me run off at the mouth.
But I did kind of over do myself a bit and am paying the price, but what the heck someone had to do it I reckon.
I am excited for your hunt, aint that strange.
I spent a night in the mountains elk hunting in Idaho some years back near Salmon, and it was pretty lonely laying there by myself under the stars listening to the wolves howl.
I was bow hunting at the time, but that old Ruger flattop 44 felt pretty comforting in my hand all night.


Celt I was just reading the post regarding the Lee 452- 255- rf at 1200fps.
Thats the same bullet I am talking about, and there is some great reading from some guys about what it can do.

I think its the best 45 caliber bullet ever created.

[TheCelt]

Well the Glock 21 has a 4.6 " barrel, and my Kimber has a 4" so I imagine that the Glock will be just a tick faster.
Plus I have found Glocks to be a few fps faster than other pistols of equal barrel length.
I would imagine that if you have the standard 5" Govt model length 1911 it is going to be shooting about with the Glock.

As to how I am feeling, well I happen to be up at this hour taking a pain pill.
I didn't take one when I went to bed because I like to wean myself off the narcotics as quickly as possible after a surgery. Dam things are too easy to get to liking when your face has already worn out two bodies.
But that rat trying to eat his way out of my pelvis through my scrotum woke me up..

Had a good day however, probably did too much seeing as how I have been ordered by my doctor and about two dozen good ladies from my Church to spend the next thirty days with no weight on my feet at all.
But I had been out of the loop all last week due to that dam pnuemonia and the surgery and my wife and mother in law had only had much success getting themselves confused trying to figure out the cattle market and how to figure shrink and slide and all them other things buyers use to confuse pretty ranchwives.
I don't know why they instantly go into panic mode when something happens to me, its like they have to figure everything out instantly in case I don't come out of it.
So anyway I got to spend yesterday showing cattle and trying to straighten out a few things with some buyers .
After mentioning that they might have to go back and sharpen their pencils or I was going to sell these beggers to someone else they somehow came up with some more money..

So i got a deal made on all of the calves.
Sold the big steers at $1.50 weighing 675, and the little steers at $1.65 weighing 625.
The most I have ever sold a calf crop for in my life, thats over a grand apiece for the big calves.
Its about time, maybe a rancher can get a little back for a change instead of losing their butts to live a life they love.
Dang those little yellow pills make me run off at the mouth.
But I did kind of over do myself a bit and am paying the price, but what the heck someone had to do it I reckon.
I am excited for your hunt, aint that strange.
I spent a night in the mountains elk hunting in Idaho some years back near Salmon, and it was pretty lonely laying there by myself under the stars listening to the wolves howl.
I was bow hunting at the time, but that old Ruger flattop 44 felt pretty comforting in my hand all night.


Celt I was just reading the post regarding the Lee 452- 255- rf at 1200fps.
Thats the same bullet I am talking about, and there is some great reading from some guys about what it can do.

I think its the best 45 caliber bullet ever created.

You ain't ranting Pard, just sharing a little conversation. Take it easy like the Doc and the Church ladies say Boss or there'll be hell to pay for sure!!! Glad to hear you got a fair shake on your stock too, seems like for awhile there agribusiness was trying to do the American backbone (ranchers and farmers) a bad hit.

keep taking your meds like the sawbones says, there'll be plenty of time for hurtin later!!! Mend well and quickly!!!

[cwheel]

After another member raised the question on the penetration of hollow points, I went out this morning and did a test. Fired 3 different rounds. First was my hard cast 225gr. lee with 6 gr. of Unique. Second was Winchester 230 gr. hardball. Third was Winchester 230gr. +p LE hollow points. All rounds fired into 5/16" bullet resistant sheet rock at 10ft. Unscientific test, but thought the point being raised that hollow points clogging with hair was more than worth a look. My guess was the hard ball was going to win, not the case. My reloads with the lee 225gr hard cast did the least damage about half way through. These pass through the chrono @ 850 fps. The hard ball and the hollow points were almost a tie. Both almost went through, hollow point expanded and did more damage. My hard cast water dropped reloads passed half way through and fragmented into powdered lead. The hard ball and the hollow point remained in one chunk. I know flesh, even bear flesh is much different than my test. Lesson learned though, the hollow point penetrated a hard surface just as well as the hard ball. It would be safe to guess that after going in 12" or so the hard ball would have won. Standard 70 series 1911 used in the test.
Chris

[303carbine]

I am going on a 14 day Elk hunt in Northern Idaho not far from the Canadian border. I have never hunted Elk or the high country, having spent my life in the Southern woods hunting whitetails. My cousin David (who is ramrodding the whole deal) suggested that in addition to my Win Model 70 .338 Win Mag I should have a suitable sidearm. I own several 1911 45s and a couple of Ruger SA in 45 Colt. What would be the best pistol to take. Should I get something else??? I never thought much about a sidearm while hunting but I guess it'd be a good idea in Bear country. Ya'll got any suggestions???

Either one of those mentioned would work, I would pack the one that I could draw and shoot accurately the best under adverse conditions.

[TheCelt]

Chris, I love the "library" behind your target!!! Some nice reading material there Sir. A little over two weeks to go and I'm chompin at the bit!!!! Good luck to ya Chris, hope you get a nice bull!!!

[TheCelt]

Either one of those mentioned would work, I would pack the one that I could draw and shoot accurately the best under adverse conditions.

I agree and so do some experienced folks that contributed to this thread. Have decided on the RBH in 45 Colt with a Hard Cast 255gr SWC loaded pretty stout. It shoots well and is one of my favorite pistols and boolits.

[cwheel]

That old "library" collected over the years and several generations of family. I leave a little later than you, the 12th, + a couple of days to get up there. Season should be already well underway by then. Can't wait to get going. Strange weather here this fall, who knows what we are going to get in camp up there. Chance of a dusting of snow here in Nevada today. A fresh coat of snow up there would aid our efforts some. Couple of feet could shut us down. Hopefully whatever handgun you choose comes home clean and unused. The handgun is like the first aid kit I carry in my butt pack, always a good day when it isn't used.
Chris

[TheCelt]

That old "library" collected over the years and several generations of family. I leave a little later than you, the 12th, + a couple of days to get up there. Season should be already well underway by then. Can't wait to get going. Strange weather here this fall, who knows what we are going to get in camp up there. Chance of a dusting of snow here in Nevada today. A fresh coat of snow up there would aid our efforts some. Couple of feet could shut us down. Hopefully whatever handgun you choose comes home clean and unused. The handgun is like the first aid kit I carry in my butt pack, always a good day when it isn't used.
Chris

You'll still have plenty of Time!! Season starts the 10th and runs through the 24th. Have heard that they got high snow in the Bonner area but not enough to be a showstopper. I'm betting the 45 just goes along for the ride, and hoping the .338WM gets used quite a bit!!!! Am getting Elk and Deer tags and hope to fill them both! Did ya have any luck with a camp site? Good luck Chris!!

[cwheel]

Won't know about a camp until we get there. Very little info on line that I can find so far, and hunter friendly is a big issue to us as well. We have a 28' travel trailer so we will be looking for hookups. No KOA's up there, just looking for a similar setup. I expected the high country up there to have been dusted with the few fronts we have had go through here in the last couple of weeks. I-80 had chain control going over the Sierras last weekend for a short time. Same storm was pushed up to the Bonners Ferry area. They keep getting just a dusting with snow as the weather comes through, all will be just fine, we don't need a big storm to dump 2' or more up there and close off access to some areas. We are fortunate enough that we can hitch up and change areas in a day or less if weather becomes a problem. I think the 10 days or so we will have to the end of the season should be more than enough to get a good taste of the area for future hunts. We usually hunt south eastern Idaho, that area is getting to much hunting pressure as of late. Have another hunting area mid state, area 58 that is almost a sure thing. Not looking for a sure thing, just have a good time, enjoy another area and get to learn something about the area up there.
Chris

[sixshot]

We got a little snow here in Soda Springs last night, expecting maybe 8" above 6,000 ft tomorrow night. These kinds of storms hit early in the fall & 90% of it is gone in a day or so, the ground is still warm so the snow melts pretty fast. Take a generator for your camper & park where you like, usually easier than finding hook ups. Good luck guys.

Dick

[cwheel]

Yes sixshot we considered the gen set, sure have one. Spoiled by the KOA just to the east of Montpelier over the last 25 years. Have done a camp in Home Canyon for years as well. Great hunter friendly camp and area, and it will be hard to beat that place. We have just noticed over the years that due to the drought, deer heard has suffered there and so has the winter range for the elk. Seams to be more hunters in that area last few years as well. Thought we would give the area some time to recover. Montpelier seams to have suffered during the economic downturn and many of the locals depend on those deer for meat for the winter months. Never has mattered to us if we go home with a deer or not, just there for a good time, old friends getting together. deer is always just a bonus if we get lucky. With a smaller heard, we thought it right to give the locals a better chance at them, and we get to see some different ground this year. We have hunted up in the Soda Springs area as well, nice country. Most of Idaho is one big campground a great place. See how hunter friendly the Bonners Ferry is, what kind of setup we can make of it. Spread a little around to the local economy there.
Chris

[Idaho Mule]

I can't help but give this a bump to see how you guys are doing. I hope all is well and we hear some great elk and deer slaying stories. JW

[AlaskanGuy]

Take it from a guide in Alaska... Get a 44 mag, and cast yourself some of them Lee 310 gr Wfn over about 21.5 grains of h110 or maybe some ramshot enforcer.... A sure way to get noticed...lol85048

[BoolitBullet]

An M79 with a modified stock should do the trick

[Ghost101]

I can't tell ya how much I have enjoyed reading this thread. Don't think I will be able to ever do any elk hunting now, but it sure has been fun kind of being in ya'lls shoes so to speak.
I like my .45 colts a lot. I use to deer hunt with a second gen. Colt may yrs. ago with great success. I'm working on a 330 gr. LFN at around 1200 fps at the moment in a Ruger Vaq. fixed sights. I just need to get ahold of a BH with better sights to just see what load bears the best groupings.
I do have a .500 S&W that I really enjoy, casting an reloading for also. In fact that gun got me into casting my own boolits, and meeting you folks on line here.
Anyway I don't have anything of use to share here, but can't wait to read the follow up on what sounds like a great trip.

Have a Great trip an be sure to share with us.

Ghost101

[TheCelt]

I can't help but give this a bump to see how you guys are doing. I hope all is well and we hear some great elk and deer slaying stories. JW

Howdy Idaho Mule! Just got back from Idaho and gotta tell ya I'm wore out to the bone. There ain't no flat land out there to be sure, I used muscles I didn't know I had!! Base camp was on Solomon Lake and I mostly hunted Goat Mountain and Solomon Mountain. Bugle is over and the bulls were very high. Goat Mountain (the end of the range I hunted up by the 44) was a wash, a few cows (no spikes with em), Moose, Cinnamon Brown Bear and Whitetail galore but no Bull Elk. Tracked a lone bull on Solomon Mountain for days but never got a shot at him. All in all I had one of the best hunts of my life!!! Never saw a moose in the wild (we don't have em down here) and the Whitetails are a good bit larger in Idaho. I also saw a few Wolf and Grizzly tracks but didn't see any animals. Saw a LOT of wolf tracks up around Canuck Pass. I packed my Ruger BH as advised and wore it constantly, so much so that I forgot I had it on when we went into Moyie Springs for supplies!!! About half way across the store parking lot I realized I was still healed and asked my cousin for his keys so I could secure my revolver. He said not to worry about it as Idaho is an open carry state. Sure Enough, nobody blinked an eye and several other hunters were healed in the store as well. I don't know why but it really made me feel free and wishin I lived in Idaho!!! Aside from all the great advice I got from this thread I came away with a few more lessons hard learned. A good high quality pair of WALKING boots is a must and they should be broken in well. A stiff pair of well insulated boots ain't worth a tinker's damn if they rub your ankles raw half way up the trail!! Also, just because a sleeping bag says its rated a 0 degrees doesn't mean it is. A quality sleeping bag is a MUST. We camped at about 4000' and it was in the low 20's several mornings. We had a wood burner made from an old Iron oil barrel in the tent that kept us pretty warm but it took awhile to get the tent warm in the morning. I also learned that the dang squirrels up there get pissed if you sweep their seeds of a stump to sit down. Damn squirrel chattered an alarm for three days every time I came into the area after that!! I took some pics and will try to post a few later, right now I got to take another Advil!!!

[snaketail]

Two thoughts -
1. You want to stop a bear charge with a handgun = .454 Casull would be minimum.
2. You want to stop a bear from charging you = .22 magnum.
The Casull will work, if you hit the right spot...
The .22 magnum will be loud enough to get its attention and persuade it to turn away.
Nothing is going to be 100% efffective

[waksupi]

Two thoughts -
1. You want to stop a bear charge with a handgun = .454 Casull would be minimum.
2. You want to stop a bear from charging you = .22 magnum.
The Casull will work, if you hit the right spot...
The .22 magnum will be loud enough to get its attention and persuade it to turn away.
Nothing is going to be 100% efffective

Gun shots won't necessarily scare a bear. If they are on a food source, they may not even look at you.

Sorry you didn't get an elk, but sounds like you had fun. That's the important part!

[BruceB]

Re: noise and bears

I once stood toe-to-toe with an adult black bear (he was standing on his hind feet, six feet away).

I fired THREE full-power .44 Magnum rounds into the ground between his feet. NO REACTION! He thought about it for maybe ten seconds, and dropped to all fours and sauntered casually away.

After going maybe fifty feet, he turned around and came back!I fired the fourth round (out of the five in my Old Model Super Blackhawk) just over his back.

He turned away again and disappeared into the bush. The FIFTH round would have been "for effect", but wasn't needed.

Do NOT trust noise to dissuade a bear from what he wants. (That bear came back later and trashed the camp while we were away.)

[TheCelt]

Gun shots won't necessarily scare a bear. If they are on a food source, they may not even look at you.

Sorry you didn't get an elk, but sounds like you had fun. That's the important part!

It was the best hunt I think I've ever had Waksupi. Thought I had a bull once but it was a moose and it was quite an experience!!!! I was pumped and ready and when that big S.O.B. came through the low growth my ticker skipped a few for sure!! Saw a LOT of large Whitetails but didn't take one as I only had a Bull Elk tag. Eating fresh caught rainbow trout for dinner a few nights was another high point. I absolutely loved Idaho and the high country!!! My cousin has offered to find me a place up there and I'm giving it serious thought.

[300savage]

Bruce i would have most likely shot my own foot trying to do that, but i am pretty sure one or a few of those rounds would have ventilated that sucker.
i am way more inclined however to not let problems walk away to bite you later.
i would have taken him out first shot i am sorry to say..

Celt, i am happy for you.

[Idaho Mule]

Celt, well I am glad you had fun, somehow, I knew you would. I sure do wish you would have scored on your elk, but sometimes we don't. The main thing is that you got to go on a hunt that you had dreamed of for quite some time and had a good time while enjoying some absolutely beautiful country. I wish that I could have been there with you, not that my being there would have made any difference in your success. Guess I just always enjoyed hunting with someone that has real passion for the hunt, that always has meant a lot to me. JW

[Wis. Tom]

This was a great post to read for info and follow. Celt, thanks for sharing with us, and thank you to all, for the great advise.

[TheCelt]

Thought I'd post a few photos I took of camp and the area. I'm on the left in the one at Canuck Pass with my two cousins.
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[waksupi]

A bit tougher to navigate than in Florida, huh? ;)

[TheCelt]

A bit tougher to navigate than in Florida, huh? ;)

You got that right!!!! Hunting was a lot different. Down here the cover is a lot thicker and FLAT. Most folks around here scout a good spot and hunt from a blind/tree stand or run dogs. Hunting Idaho was entirely new to me and I loved it. In all my years I've never stalked to within 50 yards of Whitetails, nor had a Moose pass me in the forest. You sure got to earn your bones up there. It took all I had in me and then some. Surprising thing was it's as hard coming down the mountain as it was going up!!!!

[Beerd]

September and October in the mountains. Hard to beat that time of year.
..

[DougGuy]

The Celt, I'm sure glad you had a great hunt! It's not always about the kill, that's part of it for sure but there is so much more to be taken from a trip like that. As much as I would dream about an experience like that, I think my boots would have holes worn in them. Maybe you will get to go back again, this time knowing a lot more about what the deal really is up there. Great pics too!

[filthygovmploye]

great pics celt! i vote sw 460!!!

[seabreeze133]

A pair of running shoes and in case u cannot outrun your partner, a 22 rf.......

seabreeze

[Three44s]

Great story!

As you hail from Florida you might want to check out the winters first hand before you relocate to Idaho however.

You might love it and then maybe not.

You could have given that squirrel an ultimatum however! Hush up or meet your maker! LOL!

And glad you have a new appreciation for your BH!! Trust me .... it's your best friend ........ (It will do for a killer squirrel too ........ ) ........... Who says there is such a thing as "too much gun"?


Best regards

Three 44s

[cwheel]

We did our Idaho trip, but had a change in plans while traveling. My partner from Texas was watching weather up there closely with his I phone as we were on the road. He determined that in the last few weeks there had been lots of rain up there. We diverted at Lovelock to South Eastern Idaho to stay out of the muck off road. Our hunt in Montpelier was good, but no deer. Sure took advantage of the free 3 day fishing license that comes with the tag and license, all the rainbows we could eat. Got close to 3 moose, had a large bull elk run in front of both of us less than 50 yards away, almost a easy handgun kill if we had elk tags. Black bear above us on a ridge 150 yards or so up the hill, he wanted nothing to do with us and was out of there as fast as he could go. Boy those bears move fast !! Sounded like a freight train moving through the brush. Always a great trip up there. Reason we wanted to hunt Bonners Ferry area to begin with was what seamed like some over hunting in the Montpelier area, over the years deer have been smaller. We saw several smaller legal bucks but decided that we would not take anything smaller than 4 point. Still got some rain and snow, but not much. We will take my jeep up to Bonners Ferry this next summer and get a better layout of the area for next fall. Would be a better idea having a target camp, check out hunting areas, and knowing the layout up there better. Also, much better if we had to hunker down for a week or two due to weather. Scouting trip in advance could make for a great fishing trip as well. When the weather picture came up, both of us agreed it was better to go to a known area than running up to a unknown and wallowing in the mud for a couple of weeks or so. Your camp pics look nice. Not sure we made the right decision, but still a good trip for us. I know elk tags are hard to draw, but deer tags your group can drive up and buy across the counter. Your group might want to consider that for next year. Might still end up crossing paths up there some day soon.
Chris

[sixshot]

Hey, the roads can get mucky in Montpelier just as easy as northern Idaho, trust me... I thought out of state hunters could use their deer tag on a bear, or a wolf, must be mistaken. Good luck next year.

Dick.......Soda Springs

[TheCelt]

We did our Idaho trip, but had a change in plans while traveling. My partner from Texas was watching weather up there closely with his I phone as we were on the road. He determined that in the last few weeks there had been lots of rain up there. We diverted at Lovelock to South Eastern Idaho to stay out of the muck off road. Our hunt in Montpelier was good, but no deer. Sure took advantage of the free 3 day fishing license that comes with the tag and license, all the rainbows we could eat. Got close to 3 moose, had a large bull elk run in front of both of us less than 50 yards away, almost a easy handgun kill if we had elk tags. Black bear above us on a ridge 150 yards or so up the hill, he wanted nothing to do with us and was out of there as fast as he could go. Boy those bears move fast !! Sounded like a freight train moving through the brush. Always a great trip up there. Reason we wanted to hunt Bonners Ferry area to begin with was what seamed like some over hunting in the Montpelier area, over the years deer have been smaller. We saw several smaller legal bucks but decided that we would not take anything smaller than 4 point. Still got some rain and snow, but not much. We will take my jeep up to Bonners Ferry this next summer and get a better layout of the area for next fall. Would be a better idea having a target camp, check out hunting areas, and knowing the layout up there better. Also, much better if we had to hunker down for a week or two due to weather. Scouting trip in advance could make for a great fishing trip as well. When the weather picture came up, both of us agreed it was better to go to a known area than running up to a unknown and wallowing in the mud for a couple of weeks or so. Your camp pics look nice. Not sure we made the right decision, but still a good trip for us. I know elk tags are hard to draw, but deer tags your group can drive up and buy across the counter. Your group might want to consider that for next year. Might still end up crossing paths up there some day soon.
Chris

Howdy Chris,

Was thinking of ya while I was there and didn't really see anywhere to park your RV although I'm sure there are places. We had rain one night just north of Moyie Springs, roads were all in good shape and the rain the first night did quite things down a lot. I was gonna get both Bull Elk and Whitetail tags but the Elk tag wiped out my discretionary funds. We saw Moose, Bear and a lot of whitetails but never got a shot on a bull. I had a great time though and figure I'll be back next year if I am able.

[waksupi]

I don't know about over in the panhandle, but it could rain for a month straight here, and the roads would stay solid.

[cwheel]

I think The Celt nailed it. We were driving into a unknown area, and to discover that weather might also be a factor made us re-think our options. Area 58 was the first option, but the weather pattern didn't look much better. Montpelier looked almost as bad except we had quite a bit of time hunting there, and nice hunter friendly KOA to park the rig at. Had we started in Bonners Ferry and been moved out by weather or lack of a place to park that rig, could have taken at least 2 more days from hunt time to relocate. We decided it would be well worth a good summer fishing trip up to Bonners Ferry without a trailer in tow to check the place out better first next summer. I'd love to draw an elk tag some year, but easy to get deer tags always make for a good trip. Thinking my elk hunting will be reserved for here in Nevada when I get enough preference points to finally draw one. I do wish I'd kept my high clearance tent trailer for these trips, gave a person many more options than dragging around a 28" travel trailer. Celt, don't forget to do the harvest report, even if you didn't get one. You can do it on line.
Chris

[TheCelt]

Hey, the roads can get mucky in Montpelier just as easy as northern Idaho, trust me... I thought out of state hunters could use their deer tag on a bear, or a wolf, must be mistaken. Good luck next year.

Dick.......Soda Springs

Hi Dick,

You are correct, I could harvest a bear or wolf with my elk tag. Saw LOTS of wolf tracks but no animals. We did have a shot on a bear but didn't take it cause truth be told it was to young and didn't want to shoot a bear (unless I had to). Like Chris said got to do some fishing too. Rainbow trout (my first) were mighty fine eating!!

[sixshot]

I'm surprised you caught any fish, usually the Utah guys have already caught all of them...just saying!!

Dick

[Garyshome]

1 that is larger then the one you have!

[AlaskanGuy]

Being a fishing guide in alaska, i vote for the 44 mag with a lee 310 wfn loaded for bear. That is what i carry year in and year out.. I fish along salmon spawning rivers... I carry the 44 mag... Dont go in without it.

AlaskanGuy