another 38-55 question

[bigted]

rifle is my custom modern browning 1885 Hiwall rifle. [yes I know it is NOT an original Hiwall in any respect]. I had it re-barreled with a GM barrel in oct number 4 taper which is very heavy. it has a 14 inch twist and at .0025 inch deep rifling they are fairly shallow. barrel is 30 inch finished length. forearm hanger is in the same position as it was originally due to a milling a spot in the heavy barrel underside to allow for it and the ejector. the forearm is dug out to be in relief of the barrel. the chamber is cut as a 2.095 inch chamber and throated for cast boolits ...so I thought. the groove is .375 so it is not an original 38 cal.

I have shot this rifle with hornaday 220 grain to break it in and it did wonderfully doing so. thoroughly cleaned and ensure to have no copper wash of any sort I then set about to find a paper patch load that would do well in it. NO JOY.

I have wrapped 4 different thickness papers and wrapped boolits from .372 down to .358 with all kinds of paper to try all combo's for a boolit/paper combo that would work. boolit weights have been 250 thru 330 grain with lube to include my home made bee wax combo to now using SPG lube for all. I usually do not shoot lube on the patch's however I have just to see if it made any difference. have blown my brains out thru my blow tube and wiped the bore at other times to repeat the barrel to the same condition with each shot. I have loaded GOEX cartridge powder from 40 thru 55 grains with primers consisting of cci // Winchester // federal // Remington and both mag and large rifle heat. cases were Winchester and starline cases and in 2.125 down to 2.085 in length. smokless powder in RL-7 and IMR 3031 as well as 5744.

needless to say that over time I have re-visited this little heavyweight rifle to try to persuade it to come around for me with the paper patch and be able to keep it on a 6 inch target at 75 yards. so the question I have for ye'all is thusely;

do you all think that the shallow 14 inch twist is defeating me with paperpatch?

now for the pee cutter ... I can load 30 grain of RL-7 behind the hornaday 220 flat point in WW cases at 2.086 inch length with cci 200 primers ... these do absolutely incredible in the 100 yard accuracy dept. I can repeat groups in the sub 1 inch any time I take the time with my shooting. with a hot barrel or a cold barrel these bullets perform very well and repeatable anytime I desire them. I just don't want to shoot jaxeted bullets thru it. I spent a ton of dollars to have it built and now I fear I have chosen the wrong twist barrel.

what say yee. should I continue my quest ...or... determine if I should do a bit longer twist in another barrel? maybe get it lined to a better combination?

[Nobade]

So you are saying that barrel is .370" X .375"? That is unusual for a Green Mountain barrel, it should have a .366" bore. At any rate it should shoot. I would first suggest deciding if you want to shoot groove size or bore size bullets with black powder or if you want to shoot with smokeless (using groove size of course) and concentrate on one thing. If you are using black maybe try something more energetic than Goex CTG? I got lousy results with that powder in my 38-55, just not enough hit to shred the patches properly. If you can recover some patches see if they are getting sliced well or coming off in chunks. That will tell you a lot. If you have some KIK, Swiss, or Old E you might try that and see if you can hit those bullets harder. This is all assuming you're shooting bore size and black. See if you can do some forensic examinations after the shot and see what you find. You ought to be able to get it to work - just might take some 'spereminting!

-Nobade

[Boz330]

My buddy has the same barrel on a 38-50 RH. He had to work with it some to find a load for GG boolits but got it to shoot eventually. I'm on my way to Camp Atterbury for a match this afternoon and we will be BSing over some brews this evening and I'll ask him what he got to work. If I remember which is occasionally a problem anymore. I'm with Nobade on the powder. Swiss is what I shoot in my 38-55 and it does make a difference.
I tried PP in my new 45-70 Pedersoli Sharps but was having no luck so went back to GG for the time being. I haven't cast the chamber yet but I think it is a little long and it is chopping the back off of the patch.

Bob

[bigted]

yes it is a .368 inch bore ...[got cornfused with another rifle I play with from time to time]... which makes the rifling depth at .0035 inch. this particular barrel has been a pill to get to shoot any paperpatch at all. ...[bright side is that the barrel is ultra smooth and cleans up very easily]... yes I will do some forensics to determine the patch condition but I could swear that they confetti well but I do remember some loads getting fairly large chunks of paper with the shot. I have tried both groove diameter and bore diameter and nuttin seems to work out with blackpowder. I have patched .372 inch slicks to .379 inch and used both RL-7 as well as IMR 3031 trying the smokless but no joy there either.

maybe your theory is correct with the "punch" of the cartridge powder. the only 'other' powder I have available to me here in Alaska as for blackpowder is all GOEX in all f sizes as well as some express in 2f and 3f sizes.

maybe I should try to concentrate on greasers first and develop a load that the rifle likes and then go to the paper patch for grins. I dearly want this to shoot papered boolits but may have to wait till I get another boolit other then the dreaded jaxeted to shoot first ... and then go for the gusto.

[ColColt]

I have a 38-55 in the makings at C. Sharps and Pete told me the bore/groove diameter would be .368/.375" from a GM match grade barrel with a 1:14 twist. It will probably never see a PP bullet or smokeless.

[Nobade]

Might try using some of that RE-7 to duplex under the Goex CTG if you haven't yet. Give it a bit more hit and maybe work better? Also are you using a lube cookie? I found that a 1/4 inch cookie of Pearl Lube with tablet backing cards on either side shot way better for me than either no wad, or a lubed felt one. Still experimenting to see if I can find anything better but I think my eyesight is the limiting factor now.

-Nobade

[bigted]

Nobade ... thanks for the 'duplex' idea. no I haven't tried those kinda loads . also I have not done the lube cookie in em as the room is compromised but will configure them with a load and try them as well.

[6.5 mike]

My C Sharps 1875 is a 38-55 with a Badger bbl, shoots pp'ed or lubed equally well with smokeless so far. Barrel is 0.369/0.3755. Boolit sized to 0.373, 2 wraps of tracing paper brings it back to 0.3795, fits fired case. Use the same boolit in my Marlin 375. Lee 250 rf, 50/50 alloy pp'ed or lubed.