needing info on magnesium load (dragons breath)

[bhop]

Any info on these loads would be much appreciated.

[bhop]

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g390/Bhop84/IMG_6311_zps110f2fc4.png

[cpileri]

Are you asking how to cast or load a magnesium projectile?
C-

[Johnch]

Years back , I took one of the loads apart

Powdered magnesium

The wad had a hole in it to allow the powder to ignite the magnesium

Thats all I remember , no clue on the powder charge or kind

John

[Michael J. Spangler]

Sounds like a dangerous venture.
Possibly a good way to at least mess up the gun if done wrong.
How do the commercial loads effect barrels of at all?

[bhop]

They don't affect the barrel at all the load doesn't ignite until about 3feet out of barrel in the picture u can see where it started to light up the smoke about 3ft from barrel is ignition point. And yes im hoping to find out how to load this

[Michael J. Spangler]

That's cool.
On that note.
Can't wait to see some replies.

[Oreo]

You'd have to be real careful where and when you shoot these. I picture brush fires getting out of control.

[country gent]

Magnesium is a very dangerous material to be working with, Be very carefull. Have a bucket of sand or a purple star extiguisher on hand when working with it. If it ignites the only way too extinguish it is let it burn out, smothr it and control it. I seen it burn thru a chip pan on a lathe and into the concrete floor once. Was about a half a soup can of chips. It burns very hot and blindinlg bright. When working with it dont let chips build up in large quanities. Filings mill or lathe chips are small and burn very hot. We had to notify the fire dept when we had it in the plant so they knew not to use water on a fire. Cause and explosion spreading the fire.

[imashooter2]

Magnesium is a very dangerous material to be working with, Be very carefull. Have a bucket of sand or a purple star extiguisher on hand when working with it. If it ignites the only way too extinguish it is let it burn out, smothr it and control it. I seen it burn thru a chip pan on a lathe and into the concrete floor once. Was about a half a soup can of chips. It burns very hot and blindinlg bright. When working with it dont let chips build up in large quanities. Filings mill or lathe chips are small and burn very hot. We had to notify the fire dept when we had it in the plant so they knew not to use water on a fire. Cause and explosion spreading the fire.

By the very nature of what he intends to do, he is going to have chips or filings in large quantity piled up. One of our plant's suppliers had a building burn down and a man die very recently from a magnesium fire. The man that died was trying to put it out with a bucket of powder (not sure if sand, talc or what). He was severely burned and died from the injuries after weeks in intensive care. Tragic for all concerned.

[bangerjim]

bhop.....................

You need to check your state and local regs, but most places those "dragon's breath" loads are ILLIEGAL. Here in AZ, some drunks started a massive wildfire last year with one. OK is dry just like AZ and you guys have wildfires too!

Don't go there! They are easy to make (like silencers) but you really do not want to get caught with one!

Mag powder is very flamable when oxygen/air and a soruce of ignition is available. It burns with a blinding white smoky flame that you cannot put out easily. Water turns to steam, blows it apart, and just makes the fire expand even more.

When I turn or mill mag, I am VERY careful to not let chips build up. ( I keep them to "play" with later! :-P) The powdered verison is even more dangerous when divided and exposed to air & a source of combustion. The wire inside flashbulbs (remember those things!) is very fine mag wire. The silver powder inside firecrackers is a mix of aluminum and a little magnesium powder, along with other things.

bangerjim


bangerjim

[ProfGAB101]

I did some pyrotechnics back in the 80's and often what people assumed was magnesium was actually aluminum. Magnesium (Mg) in raw form will oxidize fairly rapidly and corrodes quickly it exposed to water. When in fine granules or powder form it has an affinity for water which accelerates the oxidation, this reaction is exothermic and given a draft and the right humidity a pile of power will eventual spontaneously combust. The Mg used in pyro usually is above a certain mesh size ( I don't recall what exactly ) and the material is coated with a thin lacquer or varnish to prevent reaction with water or other oxidizers present in the prepared mix.

Skip the Mg and try powdered Al first - No oxidizer - once that cloud forms coming out the barrel you have plenty of free O2 in the air. The trick will be to get something on the wad that will be burning hotly as it passes through that cloud to touch the thing off.

[NSP64]

A piece of cannon fuse?

[bhop]

This is why I posted this on here. I don't think whatever it is would be illegal here since at the wanamachers show there are multiple tables selling these things but I will check as soon as I can figure out exactly what it is. if anyone is near the tulsa area and thinks they can tell me for sure I have 1 live round left I am always very careful with these always have 2 extinguishers and a shovel with me and never leave the area until I'm positive no fire is lit or all are put out and cold

[Oreo]

I say cut the thing open to see what the construction is. If its a powder you may want to wear gloves and a dust mask.

[bhop]

Oreo - that wouldn't help me. I can cut it open but but I won't know what I'm looking at and don't want to do that unless there is someone there who can tell me what it is exactly

[Oreo]

You won't know what you're looking at but a few pictures can help us make some educated guesses. The cannon fuse for example would be seen if that's the way its constructed, or it moght be something else. We need to see it.

[waksupi]

I would suspect you would have a very high probability of damaging your barrel.

[bhop]

I would suspect you would have a very high probability of damaging your barrel.
I have shot a few of these from a winchester. 1200 already with no damage to the barrel of any kind.

[lavenatti]

The commercial loads should be engineered to light outside the barrel preventing damage. I agree they are are probably using aluminum as the fuel but there is likely to be an oxidizer, a binder and probably another, easier to light fuel (to get the aluminum going) in the mix.
Burning metals in your barrel are going to damage it, they are just too hot.
However, a tablespoon of black powder covered with a thin paper wad followed by filling the rest of the shell with Cremora (yes, the coffee creamer) will give a rather stunning fireball.
Have fun cleaning the barrel.....

[bhop]

Hazelnut or French vanilla? Lol

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I fired a commercial dragons breath ...ONCE... I didn't close my eyes as I wanted to see the effects,,,All I seen was Jesus :)

The trick is, let a friend fire the gun, if you want to see the light show.
Jon

[alfloyd]

The one I took apart had two .100 inch holes in the bottom of the wad.
The wad is the style that has no web between the shot and the bottom.
It looks like the shot cup for steel shot.
The charge was 16.0 g of Red Dot powder - it had red dots in the flake powder.
There was some light weight granular material - about .100 inch in dia. - in the bottom of the cup and 1 ounce of No. 8 shot on top of that.
The granular powder was hard to light with a torch but it burned very bright when it did light.
There was no divider between the granular material and the shot pellets.
There was a cardboard disk over the shot and hull had a roll crimp.

Hope this helps.
Lafaun

[Bert2368]

The material used in this type of effect is likely the alloy used for lighter flints rather than magnesium-

As noted, Magnesium powders oxidize away in air. For pyro use, we coat it with linseed oil or add it to water with a dichromate (horribly dangerous, carcinogenic, poisonous) to form a dichromate coating on the grains of metal. Don't try to do either of these things, you will not soon forget an accident with these procedures.

If it's got to be magnesium, best to use a Magnesium/Aluminum alloy, somewhere around 50:50. The alloy at 50:50 is brittle like ice, you can make it into a powder with a hammer- But it has enough Aluminum so it can form a protective oxide coating at least somewhat. The alloy has to be melted and cast into a cold Iron mould under an inert atmosphere, Argon works. If you didn't immediately understand what I wrote there and how to do it, don't try to figure it out at home. After the fire, the fired department WILL figure out what happened, and then the insurance won't pay for your house...

[bhop]

Hold on SBS i understand that this is dangerous, thats why i asked for some info about it. to see if it was something that can be done or if it would be too dangerous. I dont see what this round has to do with hunters being responsible for wild fires that destroy thousands of acres, homes and kill firefighters. who in their right mind would try to hunt with this round? it is more of a show, and i know when i shot them we had everything needed to handle any fire that could have started. these can be shot responsibly. who are you to say im not responsible enough to make sure if i am shooting these rounds that i have take all necessary precautions? just so you know i was going to try to make some of these until i posted this on here. this thread made me decide not to even try.

[357maximum]

I have torn one apart and it was rather simple and easily duplicated. The Gulandi shotgun wad had two holes up through it for ignition and the normal shot payload had what appeared to be simple Pyrotechnic STARRETS mingled in with it.

I made a few by taking some 1.5 inch mortar balls apart, I then seperated the starrets out of the mix (clumps/lumps that look like black boogers) and adding the starret portion into the shot column...they performed just as well as the boughten dragons breath.

You can make your own starretts if you want to...a site like skylighter.com will show you how, but I deemed it more fiscally sound and safer to just scavenge the starrets out of the firework mortars for the few rounds I wanted to make.



********We are all big boys here and this venture will have one assuming some risk....I did it and lived to tell the tale, but you are on your own with nothing but your judgement to guide you******* You can start a forest fire with any natural wad out of a fronstuffer/BP round......common sense should rule the day on that one from the git-go anyway.*****

[Oreo]

Don't even respond to this post as it should be deleted from this forum and this type of loads should be banned!!!

Its a shame on us letting this topic continue and the members participating need to be banned or else if you think I'm in the wrong then ban me for saying so.
Choice is yours, Ken wake up for you too have been sleeping for so long!!

Ajay

Shame on YOU Ajay, you liberty fearing coward. By your retarded thinking guns entirely, and in fact all of our civil rights would be "banned", or legislated away for "our own safety". Bullchit.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

LOL...and LMAO !!!

So it appears a member named "SuperBlazingSabots" doesn't want us to make shotgun ammo that'd mimic his handle ?

I love the irony...or quite possibly a twisted joke ?

either way...hilarious !


Good morning, this is a very dangerous experiment and each year hunters are responsible for wild fires that destroy thousands of acres, homes and firefighters get killed.

Don't even respond to this post as it should be deleted from this forum and this type of loads should be banned!!!

Its a shame on us letting this topic continue and the members participating need to be banned or else if you think I'm in the wrong then ban me for saying so.
Choice is yours, Ken wake up for you too have been sleeping for so long!!

Ajay

[wantoutofca]

I know this has been mentioned already but I have see about a half dozen shotguns with scarred barrels because if these things.

[Bert2368]

If they are made with pyrotechnic stars, they likely have perchlorate as an oxidizer. You'd need to clean with water based cleaner, then re-clean every day for a couple more days, same as with corrosive primed ammo.

I have a Spanish double barrel 12 ga the last owner shot pyrotechnic loads in. He gave it away after the barrels corroded from not cleaning fast enough or well enough. Sad- it's still useable, but not pretty.

[357maximum]

If they are made with pyrotechnic stars, they likely have perchlorate as an oxidizer. You'd need to clean with water based cleaner, then re-clean every day for a couple more days, same as with corrosive primed ammo.

I have a Spanish double barrel 12 ga the last owner shot pyrotechnic loads in. He gave it away after the barrels corroded from not cleaning fast enough or well enough. Sad- it's still useable, but not pretty.


Read Berts' words till you get it...he is absotively correct.....this stuff will harm a shotgun if left not surgically cleaned. The main reason I ventured into this was to appease a friend who wanted a few to impress/entertain his grandkids ...for me it was basically a "can I do it" quest that led to some happiness for an old man.

[coleman]

Thanks for the info, I always wondered what was in them, I bought some in the 90's and wasn't that impressed with them and loaded with #8 shot[smilie=b:

[akajun]

Lets not bluff our self, this year alone we had a bad wild fire caused by a careless hunter and who knows if he was hanged for it as a lot of people got hurt and houses were destroyed not too long ago.

If you are a true American then delete this post, kill it!!
Only Al..... would love those ideas, lets not help them with destructive idea's.
One don't dig holes in the plate one eats from!!

Ajay

since when do true americans disregard the first amendment? Besides, many of us do not live in desert/ arid climates and have legit uses for dragons breath rounds, which are legal to purchase.