"Tactical"

[double8]

I know I'm old and a curmudgeon, but would someone please explain the love affair with anything "tactical"? Seems like folks like to think they are snipers or paramilitary. A 10/22 made to look like a long range killing machine gives me wonder.
Just sayin'.....

[Outpost75]

This whole tactical thing is nothing but shrewd marketing to appeal to the hordes of Walter Mitty wannabes among the uneducated masses. Those who have never been shot at would like in their dreams to be Rambo, because they have never smelled the odor of their own fouled battledress as they have stooped, vomiting, to wipe the splattered brain matter off their face which used to be their best friend's head. For those who don't know who Walter Mitty is, he could be described as John Galt's alter-ego....

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Mitty

Walter Mitty is a fictional character in James Thurber's short story "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty", first published in The New Yorker on March 18, 1939, and in book form in My World and Welcome to It in 1942. Thurber loosely based the character on his friend, Walter Mithoff.[1] It was made into a film in 1947, with a remake directed by and starring Ben Stiller scheduled for release in 2013.

Mitty is a meek, mild man with a vivid fantasy life: in a few dozen paragraphs he imagines himself a wartime pilot, an emergency-room surgeon, and a devil-may-care killer. The character's name has come into more general use to refer to an ineffectual dreamer, appearing in several dictionaries.[2] The American Heritage Dictionary defines a Walter Mitty as "an ordinary, often ineffectual person who indulges in fantastic daydreams of personal triumphs".[3] The most famous of Thurber's inept male protagonists, the character is considered "the archetype for dreamy, hapless, Thurber Man".[4]

Although the story has humorous elements, there is a darker and more significant message underlying the text, leading to a more tragic interpretation of the Mitty character. Even in his heroic daydreams, Mitty does not triumph, several fantasies being interrupted before the final one sees Mitty dying bravely in front of a firing squad. In the brief snatches of reality that punctuate Mitty's fantasies the audience meets well-meaning but insensitive strangers who inadvertently rob Mitty of some of his remaining dignity.

[USAFrox]

What? You mean if I dress up my 10/22, that doesn't actually make me into Rambo? Dagnabbit, i bet the next thing you tell me is that Santa Claus isn't real...

[starmac]

I am not interested in black guns at all, or even old wood military guns, but I see the tactical craze as comparable to older generations with their garands, springfields and mozins. Each to his own.

[clownbear69]

I think a lot has to do with part of 3 gun and like competitions. But more recently I think a lot has to deal with distrust in the government, police and other LEA. IF you cant trust them who are you able to trust?

[sparky45]

Well here's my take on "tactical". It seems to be a status symbol for ALL local police/sheriff departments so they can dress up and act like the Military. I fear these wannabe's more than the Military because these jerk-off's are WILLING to stick a black rifle in your face and have no fear of touching it off once or twice just to show you how much power and authority they have. Tactical, indeed!

[waynem34]

I like the tacticool accessories.I think at 10-22 is a 10-22 no matter.Stainless steel and polymer stocks are more weather resistant.To each his own like stated above.Also they look bad **** and some wouldbe bad guys will run if they see things that look like they are out of the military.I doubt they will rush you at your front door no matter if you had a plain jane or decked out 22.My two.

[Outpost75]

What would John Galt do?

My take is that John Galt would discreetly carry a sawed-off double barrel 12-ga. of the type found commonly in Sicily and Southern Italy, and would skip the polite, incrimental BS and juzt kill you!
In boca al lupo!

[MtGun44]

Military gear and tactics are "cool" - and have the presumption of being superior as far
as functionality and durability are concerned. So, folks want to be cool and have the "good
stuff".

Nothing surprising there. Whether or not a piece of gear that is ideal for a sniper or assault team
in the sandbox is useful for a hunter or shooter is a whole different question. Not much different
than SASS stuff where the "cool" is cowboys, same concept, different object of affection.

Bill

[Dale in Louisiana]

What? You mean if I dress up my 10/22, that doesn't actually make me into Rambo? Dagnabbit, i bet the next thing you tell me is that Santa Claus isn't real...

I guess I have to ditch my do-rag now...

dale in Louisiana

[Bad Water Bill]

Well cool or not I will stick with my Gov issue Carbine. I can shoot them BOOLITS all day at the 50-100 yard range and not break my bank acct or have a dislocated shoulder.

Just have to find all of that sneaky brass that likes to hide somewhere in the grass and weeds.

[pipehand]

tapocketa, tapocketa. I liked the Danny Kaye version.

"tactical" has come to mean spending another 30 to 50 dollars for the application of $1 of flat black paint.

[Swamp Man]

Tactical uh do you mean those Toys-R-Us guns? I hate walking into a shop and all you see are those plastic guns. What happened to using wood,trees still make wood don't they?

[oldred]

Personally I REALLY dislike the whole "taticool" thing but having said that I have to admit that this is just my opinion and I would be the last person here to tell anyone else how they should enjoy their firearms, and I would certainly NEVER support regulations that would in any way hinder a shooters choice! I occasionally wander back to the magazine rack while my wife is shopping and almost every single firearms publication is filled with the latest Captain Billy Whizbang guns and gear but I just fail to understand the attraction of it all, I am obviously in the minority however since if that's what's selling then that's what people want and I'm of the firm belief they should be able to have it. Nice hunting rifles and target rifles/handguns and gear seem to have fallen out of favor and now it seems a firearm has to look futuristic and be loaded down with all kinds of mostly useless gadgets for whatever purpose I just can't imagine, whatever rocks your boat I guess but the Walter Mitty analogy comes to mind every time I see one of those "tacticool" gadgets.

[xacex]

The kids like the tacticool 10/22, so I do not mind having one for them to plink with.It gets them out with me, and it is cheep to shoot (was). Personally, I don't like the quad rails on my free float hand guards on the AR's I own. They feel like I am holding a cheese grater, but they were cheep, and allow me to free float the barrel. My hunting AR just has a free float tube and scope. The quad rails were something I didn't want in the woods to catch on branches, and brush. Accessorizing a rifle is a personal thing. Some things are for function, but many are cosmetic. Personalizing a gun is fun, and can add functionality for the type of shooting I like to do. To each his own, but this type of feeling towards how a gun looks is a dangerous thing when it becomes political. I wouldn't worry about how someone makes their gun look until they show up at the range wearing all black, with the tactical vest, and cargo pants.

[clownbear69]

Tactical uh do you mean those Toys-R-Us guns? I hate walking into a shop and all you see are those plastic guns. What happened to using wood,trees still make wood don't they?

All I have to say look up Remington's Wood Tech

[waynem34]

Carry an ar m4 out of my house and I've got one neighbor who was so sheltered and is scared of everything. He will call 911. I'd like to be friends with the guy but its a no go. Even a fire cracker gets the law called.So tactical is sometime a pain in the butt. He dosnt realize how loud he talks and I hear every word.His wife is more of a man than he is. I know he is stressed with a new baby and not long married. Works everyday sunup to sundown. Dude couldn't be that ignorant. Protecting his family no doubt. I have to hide the tactical stuff from the neighbors lol. so tactical causes problems for me.

[starmac]

Neighbor that calls the law, just might need a little man to man talk.

[Bad Water Bill]

ALL of my STUFF goes into or out of my vehicle in the dark of night.

Yes I have a neighbor that has 911 on every button on her cell phone.

What she doesn't know won't hurt ME.

[nodda duma]

The Tacticool craze set off when the Assault Weapons Ban expired in 2004. Images from the war on terror helped increase the popularity of the newly legal rifle configurations. People went out in droves and bought stuff which had previously been taboo. Sort of the gun owner version of going off to college and drinking. That new legal access carried the craze through to about '07 or so.

Out in California (where there are more gun owners than any other state but Texas), newly found ways around the ban on AR-15's continued the tactical interest through '06-'08. In fact, supplies of AR-15 lowers dried up across the country because they were being bought out in California in this time frame. As they say, "as goes California, so goes the rest of the country" and I think that's valid for this as well.

Since Obama came into office, with the underlying threat of a ban renewal, Tacticool-ness has continued along, coupled with ever-increasing sales of the very configurable AR-15 platform. You'll notice that all the tactical stuff is meant to mimic features of The American Rifle.

But the craze started with the lifting of the AWB in '04.

That's my observation. I'm more of a milsurp collector myself like my grandfather was. I don't think it's a bad thing because it gets more people interested in gun ownership...it's just another aspect of America's long-standing relationship with firearms.

[Outpost75]

You have two whole generations that gave grown up with AR variants being our service rifle, so the black rifle is perceived by the young as being what the "good guys" carry, vs. the "bad guys" on TV and in movies carrying AKs.

What I object to is the militarization of our police into quasi- military jack booted thugs who respond to every warrant service where the resident owns a gun with a SWAT team. In the jurisdiction where I worked a fellow who was being arrested for betting on pro football games, who had no previous criminal record was killed by a negligent discharge of a SWAT officer's pistol in an obvious over reaction. They circled the wagons and tried to paint the victim as the bad guy, but when the truth came out, the case was settled out of court for several $million and the cop retired. A wrongful death lawsuit is pending. There are numerous similar cases around the country because departments are so over concerned with officer safety, the threats of IEDs and terrorism, that every small situation looks like a nail, and the only tool they know how to use is a hammer.

[Gliden07]

Many people here forget most of the stuff we're shooting was once considered Tactical. Whether it was a rifle, rifle caliber or handgun related most weapons have Military roots! That said; do I own an AR, yes; is it decked out with all the Tacti-Cool accessories, no. It is a good shooting accurate rifle whose roots can be traced to the Military. Garand rifles were once Tactical now they're considered one of the most accurate rifles ever produced but I don't really think they're considered to be tactical anymore. Now people that dress up in Molle vests, run around ducking behind cars and shooting at Taliban targets there "TRAINING!!!" Check this out!! LOL!!!

http://www.damngeeky.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Ultimate-AR-15-Mall-Tactical-Zombie-Destroyer-assult-rifle-zombie-gun.jpg

[double8]

My lil' 10/22 got a brimstone trigger job, and I put on an ol' Weaver K4, floated the barrel. Don't need a bipod, or a Picatinny rail and it is as accurate as I need it to be.

[Love Life]

To each their own on the tactical stuff.

I find it silly when people buy a well balanced rifle, and hang enough junk on it to turn it into a 14 lb monstrosity.

[Springfield0612]

I think there are a couple different crowds involved in the tacticool craze. I think most are left overs from the whole Glock craze. You know where you'd walk into a gun shop and there are Team Glock banners all over the store and you walk up to the counter and start discussing guns and the guy behind the counter finds out you don't own or carry a Glock and he walks away from you like you are less than he is. I think these Glock Snobs have a hole in their life that needs filled, so it is the next coolest, best thing that they grab onto. Hence tacticool
The second crowd I think is like myself. I don't own an AR nor do I desire to do so. I have a pistol caliber carbine so that I can carry one caliber if SHTF. I feel there is a necesity to understand the tactial training side of law enforcement and military in support of the 2nd Ammendmant. As we all know the 2nd is there to protect us against a tyranical governement. Well if that government is better TRAINED and equiped than us the citizens, we are SOL (hence the outrage against the GOV using drones in the US). Look what happened to our military in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afganasthan. We went in and tried to fight our way. FAIL. Luckily in the last two we knew to be succesful we had to adapt and overcome. To know and understand your enemy is to know victory. So if we as responsibile citizens who feel the need to protect ourselves and family against a tyranical governement we need to know and understand how they fight. Do I need lasers, flashlights, and all that other ****? No those are tools to assist a shooter who cannot shoot well without them, it masks their bad form. Iron sights don't have batteries that can die in the middle of SHTF. Is there a benefit from knowing how to use tactical advantage in a fight. YES.
But what I feel this tacticool craze comes down to is $$$$. It's just like my friend told me. He worked a Men's Warehouse selling suits. They were told in their sales training, you know that everyone that walks in the door is here to buy a suit. You are going to make that sale. The challenge is to get them to buy all the accessories to go with it that they didn't intend on buying in the first place. That is where the prices are inflated and that is where they make their money. Same as the car industry. Do you think that the car industry doesn't have money invested in petroleum? It's all about smoke and mirrors to get you to spend money you didn't know you needed too. Instead of spending $300 on that new tacticool red dot super thingy-ma-jig I'll spend $300 on powder and primers to go get more range time in and get more efficent with my weapons.

[Bad Water Bill]

Looking at it from military roots the ANTI 2A might want to ban anything with any roots to a military weapon.

Now what would there be left that would be cool.

[Whiterabbit]

Tactical is great! Tactical is functional. Tactical serves a purpose.

I just want to be left alone with my wood guns.

Tactical guys paint a HUGE target on their backs for the Fienstiens and Bloombergs of the world. Simply put, they take the flak so I don't have to. I support that. Shoot on, you semi-auto 30+ round guys! Never lose, so I can keep MY toys!

[Swamp Man]

All I have to say look up Remington's Wood Tech
I did the one that came up was the 700 SPS Wood Tech "Walnut decorated synthetic stock". Seems the Wood Tech took the day off and the Plastic Tech worked that day. :) The gun didn't look bad but there still plastic. I won't even buy an Air Rifle if it don't have a wood stock. There is only one gun I may buy with a synthetic stock and that's the Savage 42 due it being a Savage combo gun. But I wasn't happy to see Savage lower their standards when making a combo gun and call it a redesign of the model 24.

[John Allen]

My favorite is the same people with the dressed up SKS go to the range and then proceed to pull the rigger every second at the 100 yard range. Of course they then walk up to their silhouette target that looks like it was hit by buckshot from 50 yards and tell there friends good group.

[Bad Water Bill]

Personally, I like to CLEAN UP after those cool guys are finished.

Lots of free once fired brass.:bigsmyl2:

38# of 223 Win on one Sunday afternoon. MAKE MY DAY.[smilie=w:[smilie=w:[smilie=w:

[waynem34]

You must fight your enemy. It dosnt take a govermaent. Look at where're ya located. It will be from outer space.

[waynem34]

J/K HAHA It will be from below ground.

[LeMat]

I got all the tactical I could stand while in the Army. Since then, I could care less about anything tactical.

I just shake my head at the posers who feel it necessary to bolt a bunch of **** on their firearm so that they can feel like some sort of commando. Not impressed.

Grab a weapon and stand a post. Don't pretend.

[double8]

Learned to shoot using Dads' pre '35 Wnchester 67, single shot, bolt, s,l, lr. it is still very accurate with any ammo.

[Dale in Louisiana]

I got all the tactical I could stand while in the Army. Since then, I could care less about anything tactical.

I just shake my head at the posers who feel it necessary to bolt a bunch of **** on their firearm so that they can feel like some sort of commando. Not impressed.

Grab a weapon and stand a post. Don't pretend.

took me a long time after the Army before I started enjoying rifle shooting again. I found that highpower rifles just sort of lost their allure after running around with a 105 and a tank to play with.

'Tactical' is amusing to me, too. I particularly like seeing videos of a police tactical 'stack'. I'm thinking 'target-rich environment' to any real shooters.

dale in Louisiana

[Ed Barrett]

ALL of my STUFF goes into or out of my vehicle in the dark of night.

Yes I have a neighbor that has 911 on every button on her cell phone.

What she doesn't know won't hurt ME.

If my neighbors see me putting a gun in my car, they say "Are you going shooting? I'll meet you at the range as soon as I get my gun"

[kenyerian]

I'm not much for tactical but the grandsons really like it. When we go to Gun Shows I'm looking at Pre 64 Winchesters, Ruger Flatops, Contenders,and they are looking for stuff to bolt on their AR's. But we still have a good time and they help me with reloading and casting. I've even got them collecting brass for me at the local public range.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I share most of the sentiments from this thread as I care nothing for the black guns but to us who lived here thru the riots of '64 and '92 you must admit semiautomatic weapons for some people came in very handy. I well remember in the last riots the police were speeding two cars abreast thru red lighted intersectios to get back to the safety of there headquatters. I also remember the police locking arms around the building while the mob was trying to storm the place. I tell you guys , it was the best TV ever. By the "92 riots many liquor stores in south central Los Angeles had been taken over by Koreans and they said , you are not going to rob or plunder our store. There were scenes of these people on the roof shooting it out with the rioters. I saw one young man who was coming back to the store with food for the defenders, firing his pistol, looking around, finding another target and firing some more. I was the late supervisor in the phone yard in Norwalk that night and about 7:00pm I received a call telling me to get everyone back to the yard and send them home, me included. I went out in the parking lot to wave them in and a piece of buring paper drifted down to my feet. We were easily twenty miles from the riots. I will tell the world this and you can tuck it under your pillow. I saw no cops on the street nor did I see any on tv. If you were in law enforcment in the area at that time you might want to jump in on this. As I recall there were 37 people killed. In the final analysis you are responsible for your own defense. The preppers may not be as nutty as some people think. Can you imagine what would happen in big cities such as New York if there were no food deliveries for as just three days? I remember the panic buying during the Cuban missle crisis in "61. There was a very large supermarket three blocks from our house and there shelves were pretty much empty after just two days. One older lady in line in front of me had a shopping cart full of dog food and cigerettes. Her and the dog were gonna make it.

[km101]

I got all the tactical I could stand while in the Army. Since then, I could care less about anything tactical.

I just shake my head at the posers who feel it necessary to bolt a bunch of **** on their firearm so that they can feel like some sort of commando. Not impressed.

Grab a weapon and stand a post. Don't pretend.


Well said, and just the way that I feel! If you gotta pretend then you have some growing-up to do.
If you are wearing camo or BDU's that you bought at the army surplus store you have some personality issues that you need to resolve!

[LeMat]

took me a long time after the Army before I started enjoying rifle shooting again. I found that highpower rifles just sort of lost their allure after running around with a 105 and a tank to play with.

'Tactical' is amusing to me, too. I particularly like seeing videos of a police tactical 'stack'. I'm thinking 'target-rich environment' to any real shooters.

dale in Louisiana

I was our Squadron XO's driver during Graf during my last gunnery and he let me touch off one of the 105's. Everything pretty much pales in comparison after that. :cool:

[Hogtamer]

Nothing is gonna help folks who can't shoot - 30 rd clips, red dots, blah blah. Ok, the old eyes aren't what they used to be but a couple of 12 gauges loaded with big load buckshot is my choice. They don't call 'em streetsweepers for nothing.

[btroj]

Tacticool is the preferred term for everything mall ninja.

Black is in! It makes a gun look so cool. Raises the price a bunch too.....

[Boyscout]

I don't care much for plastic/synthetic stocks but I use them becuase they are weather proof. I had a Remington 870 forearm jam up on me during a very wet turkey season. I have pretty guns with wood and I have some guns with plastic. I love the wood but the gun has to work under circumstances I am using it. Are most of the "tacti-cools" sitting in elements 12-13 hours a day subjecting their guns to the abuse? Probably not but it's fun to imagine how much it disturbs the Democrats that they are out there.

[375supermag]

Don't know anything about being "cool" ...tactical or otherwise, but...

My son has spent a few dollars "tacticalizing" an SKS...new stock with adjustable stock, bipod, extended mags and just this week a Red Dot sight of some flavor or another.

We hope to have time to try his "new" toy out this weekend. Neither of us have any intention of "playing soldier"...we just intend to have a good time at the range every couple of weeks.

I would rather he spend time and money at the range shooting than getting involved in some of the **** I see other 19-year-olds doing.

If it bothers some people that some of that time shooting is spent with an SKS or AR-type rifle with a couple of "enhancements" on it, at least he is paying his own way (he pays for his own gun club membership dues) and supports gun rights.

We need to support young people who are involved in the shooting sports, not criticize what they shoot (or wear, for that matter).
This sport will not survive without new shooters.

[clownbear69]

Many people here forget most of the stuff we're shooting was once considered Tactical. Whether it was a rifle, rifle caliber or handgun related most weapons have Military roots! That said; do I own an AR, yes; is it decked out with all the Tacti-Cool accessories, no. It is a good shooting accurate rifle whose roots can be traced to the Military. Garand rifles were once Tactical now they're considered one of the most accurate rifles ever produced but I don't really think they're considered to be tactical anymore. Now people that dress up in Molle vests, run around ducking behind cars and shooting at Taliban targets there "TRAINING!!!" Check this out!! LOL!!!

http://www.damngeeky.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Ultimate-AR-15-Mall-Tactical-Zombie-Destroyer-assult-rifle-zombie-gun.jpg

In the lines of "training" I do it and its fun. Sure beats sitting at the range waiting to shoot. Plus it shows how well (or lack) you shoot under stress. Not all you targets stay still and neither do you

[Charley]

Several local outfits push "tactical" in their name, and advertising. Sorry, I'm NOT going to buy from "Alamo Tactical" and I'm not going to train with "360 Tactical training". Buzz words meant to appeal to the ignorant in this case.

[Artful]

tapocketa, tapocketa. I liked the Danny Kaye version.

"tactical" has come to mean spending another 30 to 50 dollars for the application of $1 of flat black paint.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-M1F8hVfjM

I thought Flat Dark Earth FDE was the new flat black

[Swamp Man]

I have no problem with what they shoot or what they put on their guns. What get's me is the gun makers and shop owners that seem to have forgot about those of us that like classic sporting/hunting rifles.

[Love Life]

I will say that some of the "tactical" training offered seems pretty legit. If anything it gets a person versed in weapons presentation and situational awareness. Now, that is the legit courses. Not the courses run by Joe "Call of Duty" dipstick up the road who just bought his 1st AR, black knee and elbow pads, and Oakley glasses.

[Gliden07]

In the lines of "training" I do it and its fun. Sure beats sitting at the range waiting to shoot. Plus it shows how well (or lack) you shoot under stress. Not all you targets stay still and neither do you

I shoot IDPA and it is fun! The picture in my Avatar is my carry gun and thats what I shoot/train with at IDPA. Anything that promotes the shooting sports I'm for within reason hence the link to the picture!

[btroj]

Ok, saw a guy at the local indoor range. One black glove, black cargo pants, black t-short, black vest of some sort. Shot his AR with collapsible buttstock, vertical foregrip, and red dot. Yes, a 223 indoors at 25 yards. He also had a laser sight, easy to see the dot bouncing around down range. Total mall ninja. All he lacked was knee and elbow pads. Shot groups in the 3 inch range at 25 yards.

I laughed my butt off at him. He thought he was tacticool, I thought he was a poorly dressed bad shot.

[Boerrancher]

I personally don't really like the AR platform. I know they work well and are very accurate, but I used one for nearly 20 years and the old saying "familiarity breeds contempt" is true. I prefer the old clunky M1A/M14 and my second choice is the M1 Garand. The .308 or 30-06 either one will do more damage at greater distances than the 5.56 ever thought about doing at the muzzle. If I really want to put the hurt on someone, I will drag out the 300 RUM. I don't need to be tactical with it, because around here if I can see it, it is in range.

All the fancy junk does not replace the ability to shoot. I have over the years P.Oed a lot of folks at the public range because I could shoot well with an old junk revolver or antique lever gun and they couldn't hit squat with all of their fancy weaponry.

Best wishes,

Joe

[x101airborne]

When I was in Iraq, we were getting new troops in and ran out of weapons. Our neighboring unit, a Natl Guard unit had a couple extra M-14's and full compliments to go with em. I was up on the patrol list and decided it would be fun to carry one of the borrowed m-14's. Yeah, that lasted for the week I was on patrol and that was it. I appreciated my M-4 very much after that. The M-14 was more fun to shoot, neater to look at and made everyone say it was neat, but carrying it in 120 degree heat was a bust.

The tacticool guys buy gun stuff and shoot ammo. Good enough for me. I do own and shoot AR's, but because they are a functional, accurate weapons that hold a lot of ammo. That and I don't care if I ding em or scratch em.

For home defense, my favorite weapon is a double barrel savage 10 gauge loaded with stiff 000 Buck. All I need and all anyone wants. If you are out of range, you probably aren't a threat.

[TenTea]

Jeff Cooper lamented the prevalence of the *tactical* label in gun culture marketing probably 20 years ago.

There is nothing new under the sun...

[45 2.1]

I personally don't really like the AR platform. I know they work well and are very accurate, but I used one for nearly 20 years and the old saying "familiarity breeds contempt" is true. I prefer the old clunky M1A/M14 and my second choice is the M1 Garand. The .308 or 30-06 either one will do more damage at greater distances than the 5.56 ever thought about doing at the muzzle. If I really want to put the hurt on someone, I will drag out the 300 RUM. I don't need to be tactical with it, because around here if I can see it, it is in range. Joe

I have to agree with you.......... You do know of the AR10........ When you get old, you'll find out you can't see the excellent iron sights on those M1 & M1As when dusky conditions arrive. The flat top 30 caliber ARs with some of the optical wonders we have now solve that problem nicely.

[Adam10mm]

Tactical is about one's actions, not one's objects.

There is not a tactical rifle, but one can be tactical with a rifle.

[garym1a2]

Back when I was younger being tack-cool was wearing my brothers BDU's and shooting my Grand, my M1A and my Hbar. Today I am old enough to wear whatever I like, but the modern Glocks and AR's are great as they are fully customizable by me.

[double8]

I am not interested in black guns at all, or even old wood military guns, but I see the tactical craze as comparable to older generations with their garands, springfields and mozins. Each to his own.

Heck, we once could buy those things for cheap, order them from the ad on the back of the NRA magazine. I once traded an '03A3 and a '98 Mauser for an 1894 38-55 rifle. I felt I got the better deal....then.

[popper]

I wouldn't call my AR 10 tacticool, just works. Load 1 or 20 in the mag, floating barrel I didn't have to glass, built in picatinny rail to mount the scope, red dot or iron. No wood to scar, built in sling or bipod mount, well designed deer rifle by Stoner. Shoots as good as I can. Oh, yea, shoots cast or jacketed equally well. Yes, it cost 1/3 more than a good quality 3006 bolt action - but I don't like bolt action rifles. Did I mention I didn't have to pay someone to glass bed it and buy all the accessories for it?

[dagger dog]

And don't forget about the TACTICOOL FINGER ,all mall and range ninjas and tactical advertisement models have to have that index finger extended along side the trigger guard , like it's been broken and splinted !

I think it is more of a "ain't I so tatcticool" gesture than it is a safety precaution, heck you still have room on the pistol grip for all the fingers and to those posers I have another digit I salute them with !

[Boerrancher]

I have to agree with you.......... You do know of the AR10........ When you get old, you'll find out you can't see the excellent iron sights on those M1 & M1As when dusky conditions arrive. The flat top 30 caliber ARs with some of the optical wonders we have now solve that problem nicely.

I have thought about an AR10, but the M1A with the 4 point scope mount works almost as well. I eliminated the need for glass bedding by purchasing a new synthetic stock and not storing it with the trigger group locked down. By doing this I really tightened up the grouping. I am sure the AR10 shoots better than any M1A ever thought about, but I just have a hard time putting down the rifles dad always shot at Camp Perry.

Best wishes

Joe

[x101airborne]

So,,,,, are you guys saying my .62 cal flinter aint "tacticool"?
It is a flame thrower, a smoke screen, a shotgun, a rifle, and a sounding / signaling device all in one and I don't have anything added on to it! LOL.

[Love Life]

And don't forget about the TACTICOOL FINGER ,all mall and range ninjas and tactical advertisement models have to have that index finger extended along side the trigger guard , like it's been broken and splinted !





Ummm....that is actually a safety thing. Finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

I hate seeing people walking around with loaded firearms and their finger in the tregger guard.

[dagger dog]

Ummm....that is actually a safety thing. Finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.

I hate seeing people walking around with loaded firearms and their finger in the tregger guard.

There are other places that finger can be kept without putting it in the trigger guard, under, on the grip with the rest of the hand, touching the edge of the guard with the tip.

I'm just tired of seeing it pointing like it's broken, as I said it's a POSE all tatcticool advocates have to show to tell you how COOL they are.

[USAFrox]

And don't forget about the TACTICOOL FINGER ,all mall and range ninjas and tactical advertisement models have to have that index finger extended along side the trigger guard , like it's been broken and splinted !

I think it is more of a "ain't I so tatcticool" gesture than it is a safety precaution, heck you still have room on the pistol grip for all the fingers and to those posers I have another digit I salute them with !

Um... That IS a safety thing. And shows proper respect and caution using a firearm. I'd much rather see someone who is carrying a firearm have their finger out of the trigger guard and stiff alongside, than to see them with their booger hook on the trigger. Having your finger straight along the trigger guard is smart usage, as well, as it keeps the finger off the trigger until you are actually preparing to fire, but it doesn't change your grip on the weapon, so that if you need to fire right away, you can. I'm having a hard time understanding your harsh reaction to people acting responsibly with a firearm.

[Adam10mm]

Straight finger is a safety issue. It's placed as such so you don't have to change your grip to get to the trigger. It's the minimal movement. On my 1911, if I were to do as you say and place my finger on the grip, when I need to fire I have to change my entire grip on the pistol in order to do so. With the straight finger, I disengage the thumb safety and put my finger on the trigger. No other movement needed.

[Love Life]

There are other places that finger can be kept without putting it in the trigger guard, under, on the grip with the rest of the hand, touching the edge of the guard with the tip.

I'm just tired of seeing it pointing like it's broken, as I said it's a POSE all tatcticool advocates have to show to tell you how COOL they are.

It is not a pose. It is actually what the ENTIRE USMC does. Firearms safety rule number 3.

Straight from Training and Education Command (TECOM)

[dagger dog]

This is intended, you guys are missing the POINT, I know why it's there and the safety precautions, but does a poster model in an advertisement need to hold his or her weapon at the READY ?

[Love Life]

No. Alert to the dirt is fine.

[USAFrox]

This is intended, you guys are missing the POINT, I know why it's there and the safety precautions, but does a poster model in an advertisement need to hold his or her weapon at the READY ?

Would you prefer that the "poster model" have his finger on the trigger? The model is simply being the model of responsible firearm safety practices.

[Love Life]

There is a big difference in the weapon being at the ready, and just having the finger straight and off the trigger.

Finger straight and off the trigger is at all times (unless shooting at stuff).

The ready is a weapons carry and is used for a specific situation.

[double8]

Anyway, when a situation starts, probably be able to pick up some "tacticals" left behind.

[waksupi]

Where else would you put that finger? I haven't carried a pistol with all four fingers under the trigger guard since I was about 3 years old.

[Love Life]

Where else would you put that finger?

Your nose?

[popper]

I qualed with the M1 @ 18, got to walk around with an 03, carried a loaded carbine on a 4 hr watch, but never. Wanted to carry the M14. A 105 is nothing, stand behind a 3 gun 8" salute.

[9w1911]

haha we have a few Alamo tacticools here, I never go there. My lgs carries a delta elite for grizz here in reno lol I would not mind an ar I don't own one yet, or an ak74, or a 1903, or m1a, or garand but I want them all they are all on the list. Now I just have lever guns but they are my first love.
I do want the ar in .45acp cause i cast and load for my 1911.

as far as soccer dads owning these ar's I'm just waiting for them to go back on sale and they have started to drop here on armslist

[Blacksmith]

I am building myself a Tacticoolest Evil Black Rifle as a lampoon of all things Tacticool and as a statement of the ridiculousness of anti gun laws. I has a collapsible black synthetic stock, black synthetic pistol grip, black synthetic fore end with folding black bipod, really big black scope with a 4" sunshade, mounted on a Pickatinny rail, and the frame used has taken more than 90 days to get a police background check completed. You will notice I did not mention magazine capacity, that is because it is a single shot. You are probably wondering what exotic extreme range deadly wildcat cartridge this gun shoots? It is a .22 rim fire!

Because this very evil looking single shot .22 uses a T/C Contender frame it is a controlled firearm in this state (all handguns and all assault rifles except Colt HBar type) and has extensive background checks which get worse with new license requirements and assault weapons ban after Oct.1st. So I will be able to illustrate by comparison the ridiculousness of extremely poorly written appearance driven gun laws. The Colt HBar AR platform is a NICS only telephone check pay your money and go type purchase while this single shot .22 is over regulated as mentioned above. I can also change the Evil Looking .22 into a conventional looking wood stocked aperture sighted "normal" target rifle with a screwdriver and a few minutes time.

I will enjoy showing people how arbitrary our gun laws really are.

[double8]

Page 37 of the September American Rifleman has an ad by Stevens/Savage for a model 320 shotgun which sports a "sight rail", pistol grip, and a "heat shield"....sorry, I don't get it........nor would I.

It's a shotgun fer cryin' out loud.

[Dale in Louisiana]

Page 37 of the September American Rifleman has an ad by Stevens/Savage for a model 320 shotgun which sports a "sight rail", pistol grip, and a "heat shield"....sorry, I don't get it........nor would I.

It's a shotgun fer cryin' out loud.

If you're in a position where you think your shotgun is going to need a heat shield, you should really reconsider your planning.

dale in Louisiana
(But that heat shield LOOKS cool!)

[LabGuy]

I’m ok with black guns, but did I ever tell you how much I love blued metal, walnut, and the smell of #9.

[double8]

If you're in a position where you think your shotgun is going to need a heat shield, you should really reconsider your planning.

dale in Louisiana
(But that heat shield LOOKS cool!)

Looks better on Corvette side pipes where it belongs.

[Ed Barrett]

I figure the Tactical that dress like they are set to look like a movie version of a recon team and put everything they could possibly hang on a rifle are something like the cowboy action action shooters who dress up like Randolf Scott and take a perfectly good rifle and distress it so it will look authentic. They enjoy themselves and don't bother me much and give me a chuckle most of the time.

[Bucking the Tiger]

I am not a fan of all this tactical stuff. To each his own, but it is the going fashion right now for these backyard commandos to show up at the range all decked out in wanna be gear and weapons.
My experience has been that the majority of these shooters never spent a day in the military(Parents told them to go to college, not join the military) Played a whole bunch of video games, and were never really taught how to shoot. I see dozens of them show up at the range I go to with their Mr.PotatoHead rifle( AR with railing) with all kind of garbage bolted onto it,and a high speed dot sight. They plop their buts down in a chair, set up AR in a rest on a bench,and try to hit a 10" plate at 100 yards. Lots of brass going everywhere, not so many dings from a plate being rung.
There is a lot of money being made in all this. Back when I joined the Marines, you got an AR, a sling, a few 30 round mags,and you were really special if you put a scope on it. Now look: You get your modular AR, and your can trim it like a Christmas tree with tons of name brand everything. Think of the money in all this.........Look how many rounds of .223 or 5.56 get sold.....
I am a fan of a shooting fashion myself. Mine is S&W revolvers, old or new, blued or stainless.I read Elmer Keith, Ed McGivern, Bill Jordan, and John Taffin. Casting my own bullets is a matter of pride and very economically sound. I like leather holsters, practice hip shooting, long range shooting, either hand, and now working on both hands at the same time. I just purchased my second S&W Model 25 Classic and now trying to master two revolvers at the same time. Very humbling, but it is making me better....
My argument is all these commandos want to BUY ability and I am trying to DEVELOP my skill with lots of practice.
I will not purposely be rude to a fellow shooter, but I sure wish some of these "operators" would put some time in learning how to really shoot.

[Blacksmith]

They rang a 10" plate a couple of times and in their mind that gives them bragging rights as being TOP SHOT. If you doubt it just hang around the water cooler where they work or listen in to the stories they tell at the bar. They are an extreme long range sniper and probably call themselves "Sergent Walter Mitty".

[double8]

In the Sepember American Rifleman there is an ad for a "Tactical Pocket Pistol" in 45 ACP called a DoubleTap. Looks like a modern derringer. How can it be "tactical", no picatinny rail, no bipod, no 30 round mag. OH, it advertises a MIL-STD finish..whatever that is these days. I'd like to ask what MIL-STD it calls for.
Reminds me of years ago when everything was called a..."California" this and such. You just knew it was good!

[USAFrox]

Wow, California used to be synonymous with "good". My, how things have changed...

[waynem34]

I think alot of it developed when things became more urban.Close quarter enviroment.I guess its the romance of war.I know very little is likable about it, but to think these brave few have conquered what so many dream of doing.

[Recluse]

All this tactical BS is responsible for me choosing not to renew my range membership at the brand new indoor range that opened up almost a year ago. The wife and I bought our membership before the place even opened.

Nice folks running it, but the clientele is 98% tactical numbnuts. The only wheelguns I've seen shot out there have been by me or my daughter or niece and only two other people. Just about everything shot out there is black.

For damned sure everything for sale is black.

It's always my luck to want to shoot and be by myself and then have some stupid ******* idiot poser tacticool yuppie end up in the very next bay with his AR-Whatever that is pimped out beyond comprehension. This trained and experienced killer-without-conscience then sets his target out to a mind-boggling 40 feet, rummages through his world-traveled tactical *** Bag to get his tactical rest or vice, then begins blasting hell out of the poor target. . . when he hits it.

In the meantime, I'm three feet away and getting the percussion blast everytime this alpha-hotel pulls the trigger, not to mention his brass flying in my face because the stupid/inconsiderate SOB is leaning as far forward as he can because it looks cool (and it nets him another foot or so closer to his target).

This range has basically filled up with these mentalities. The serious shooters I know have the same attitude as me: We came, We saw, We shot and it was good until the Black Gun Shooters discovered the place. So We left.

My preferred indoor range is a helluva drive for me, but I've long since determined it's worth it. For starters, they allow no rifles on the pistol range--they have a rifle range for that. Second, they keep a damned close eye on the black gun shooters. Third, LOTS of veterans shoot there and quietly call the range their home and when we raise hell with the occasional/rare shooter who goofs around on the range, the owners back us up instantly and kick out the offending alpha-hotel.

Best of all, the majority of guns they sell AIN'T black--they actually have wood in the stocks! Some of them even can only shoot SIX ROUNDS before you have to reload, with some shooting only FIVE rounds.

The only good thing I can think of about these black-gun tacticool idiots is that if the poop ever does hit the ventilator, these numbnuts will be the first to be killed and the rest of us will have some sandbags to shoot behind. I'd go one step further and say we'd also have some fairly decent weapons, but it'll take a week to strip them down and cleaned and sighted in so pimped out that they are.

SMFH.

:coffee:

[GaryN]

I guess I have to ditch my do-rag now...

Dale in Louisiana

I didn't even know what a do-rag was until about 6 months ago. I was on an archery forum and they were all talking about them. I had never heard of them.

[Lead Fred]

What I call tactical:

Victor Charlie stepping on my hand, and Im here typing to you 40 years later.

One of my pet peeves:

Tactical white lights, ARE NOT TACTICAL

You turn that on within a 1/2 mile of Me, and a 178 A-Max will visit your AO within seconds.
Inside or outside at night, white light and or noise will kill you dead.

The rest of the mall ninja stuff is just plain stupid from a combat point of view.

80429

[Dale in Louisiana]

I didn't even know what a do-rag was until about 6 months ago. I was on an archery forum and they were all talking about them. I had never heard of them.

What about the "Shoot me first" vests with all the pockets?

dale in Louisiana

[popper]

Lead Fred - with all the money spent on that bling I could buy another black AR. I like Ars, in 308, or 284, or 260.

[TenTea]

I thought shemaghs were all the rage with cool kids now?

80437

I have a do rag for some jobs and a don't rag for others...

Honestly, I think it's dew rag, as in...I need to wipe the dew offa my moistened brow.

We used to call them *bandanas* haha.

I have employed many different tactics in their use, so they're definitely tier one swag.

80436

[WallyM3]

+1 on the "dew" rag.

[double8]

I thought it was "do" as in Like my new "do"?. I guess I arsent down wit de new talk of the 'bro. Wonder if there is a "tactical" dew?

[Love Life]

I always used bandanas for wiping boogers. I use a recon wrap to keep sweat out of my eyes when wearing a helmet. Now THAT is tactical.

Combat weapons have lights, IR lasers, and RCO's (ACOG).

I do laugh at the tacticool guys blasting targets at 25 yards, but I also like to give them some pointers if they'll listen.

[Dale in Louisiana]

+1 on the "dew" rag.


"Do", as in hairdo. You know, one of them 'cheeto' hairdos? Or that slicked-back greasy 'do?

"Dew", as in 'sweat' would imply that some of those people actually do work.

dale in Louisiana

[WallyM3]

It's from the "field hand" days.

[double8]

Kimber is advertising a "Meprolight sight with tritium highlights" and calls the sight a "Tactical Wedge" design.
Please.........

[Blacksmith]

If you want something real badas and tacticool to wear get yourself a Scottish kilt, make sure you get one with a tartan you are entitled to wear, then whip out your claymore (original type) and commence mowing down the enemy. I believe the Germans in WW I called them "The Ladies from Hell."

[starmac]

Makin a feller wear a dress would be akin to naming your boy Sue. lol Well I mean a feller that doesn't want to wear a dress. lol

[Adam10mm]

One of my pet peeves:

Tactical white lights, ARE NOT TACTICAL

You turn that on within a 1/2 mile of Me, and a 178 A-Max will visit your AO within seconds.
Inside or outside at night, white light and or noise will kill you dead.
Um, so white lights are generally for inside dwellings at night. The white light on my home defense weapon is to ID the target and render their eyes useless. When one's eyes are adjusted to seeing in the dark, then a bright a hell white light is shining in their eyes from 40 feet away, that puts them at a disadvantage.

[Bucking the Tiger]

Hey Blacksmith, you are dead on about the kilts! I met a few Scotsmen( the Coldstream Guards) when I was in the Marine Corps. They are proud of their kilts! They wore a white linen shirt, Blackwatch kilt, high wool hose, and black leather shoes as a liberty uniform. More than one loud, ignorant, young Marine would call it a dress or skirt and get his head boxed in. If you fought one Scot, you fought them all.
They were real the deal:They didn't talk **** but would not take any ****.
I am biased:My family are all from Scotland.

[double8]

I just came from the range......guy there had a "Tactical" Ruger 10/22. Plastic stock, bipod, grooved s/s barrel with a howitzer looking thingy on the end, scope big enuff to look at the rings of Saturn. Dressed in desert camo. After some small talk with the range officer, I heard him say he had $800+ into that rig. I just looked at my wood stalked, blued 10/22 with a Brimstone trigger job, 4x Weaver and a free floated barrel and smiled. His target at 50 yds was better than mine, but not by much. Worth the extra $500??

[Bucking the Tiger]

It is about image, not necessarily performance. A .22 done up tactical is a bit of a joke anyway: Nobody is taking a .22 that ain't silenced to a gun fight.
If can't afford an AR( or the ammo for it), I guess you get a "tactical" .22. It's like little girls playing dress up....

[BruceB]

[QUOTE=Blacksmith;2366079"... get yourself a Scottish kilt, make sure you get one with a tartan you are entitled to wear, then whip out your claymore (original type) and commence mowing down the enemy. "[/QUOTE]


I spent some time in a kilt, when I was a member of the Lake Superior Scottish Regiment, based in the communities of Northwestern Ontario. Our tartan was dress MacGillavry, which appears mostly red from a distance.

Kilts are marvelously comfortable in hot weather. They did lead to some "conversations" with certain locals when on leave, but a web belt with a BIG ornate brass buckle, wrapped around one's wrist and gripped in the hand, makes a fine "persuader" if things get unfriendly. No claymore required.

At this late date, I don't recall if we were allowed to wear the 'skean dhu' (stocking knife) into town on pass.

[double8]

From "tactical" to kilts.....

[Blacksmith]

The great kilt was tactical for it's time. Originally the kilt was a "blanket" sized piece of cloth held at the waist with your sword belt from which also hung your sporran (possibles bag) the excess cloth draped over your shoulder. At night it was your bed roll or tent and in the morning you just wrapped it around and tightened your belt and were ready to go.

[Ed Barrett]

The great kilt was tactical for it's time. Originally the kilt was a "blanket" sized piece of cloth held at the waist with your sword belt from which also hung your sporran (possibles bag) the excess cloth draped over your shoulder. At night it was your bed roll or tent and in the morning you just wrapped it around and tightened your belt and were ready to go.

Those old "Tactikool" kilts were made with 6 or 7 accessory rails added on to them, they are only found in the back of museums these days.