NOE 70gr mold / casting

[cstrickland]

would like to get some opinions . I just got my first mold it is the 70 gr RN 224 mold , it is of the 4 cavity type. I am just starting and am considering casting this mold with a rowell #1 ladle . What kinda of difficulties and I am in for versus buying a bottom pour lee pot ? one of my concerns is if I will be able to keep the mold to temp. I had planned on doing a hot plate or single electric burn to keep it on. any tips from anyone with this mold would also be appreciated.

thanks

[**oneshot**]

I have the NOE 60gr RN and cast with a ladle. I preheat my mold on a hotplate with a saw blade on top of the hotplate. I pour front to back and alternate back to front with each casting. Once you start set a pace and keep at it. If you stop for any reason, put it back on the preheater. Mine casts best with my alloy at 725degrees pour 2 cavities, refill dipper, pour the other 2.
I cut the sprue, flip it over and open the mold. They drop right out. I started out casting about 100-150 then stopped to check how they were looking and adjusted from there.

I sort by eye and weight sort for the best results. Expect high reject counts until you get it sorted out. Once you find the combo of temp and pace your rejects will go down alot.

[cstrickland]

one shot why pour two then re dip ?? are you using a smaller ladle or is that a heat issue ??

[**oneshot**]

I just found that pouring them seperate gives a more consistent boolit.

[cstrickland]

[QUOTE=**oneshot**;2356198]I just found that pouring them seperate gives a more consistent boolit.[/Qoute]

Sound good enough for me to give it a try. Thanks

[kenyerian]

I have used a Lyman long handle dipper for casting since 1972 when I got my first TC Hawken. I think it works very well casting 22 size boolits.
i share a RCBS bottom pour with my brother but for small runs I just dip. I have the NOE 225107 37Gr. FN and it works very well. I preheat with a saw blade on a coleman stove and use a Lyman 10 lb pot so I can keep the alloy separate from what I use for pistol boolits in the RCBS. It is easier to empty for when I am casting round balls for the Hawken.

[Taylor]

Whats the saw blade for?:confused:

[cstrickland]

Whats the saw blade for?:confused:

turns a burner into a make shift hot plate, so you do not put the mold right in the fire, or in case of an electric burner right on the coil. heat distribution

[cstrickland]

I have used a Lyman long handle dipper for casting since 1972 when I got my first TC Hawken. I think it works very well casting 22 size boolits.
i share a RCBS bottom pour with my brother but for small runs I just dip. I have the NOE 225107 37Gr. FN and it works very well. I preheat with a saw blade on a coleman stove and use a Lyman 10 lb pot so I can keep the alloy separate from what I use for pistol boolits in the RCBS. It is easier to empty for when I am casting round balls for the Hawken.

how much lead does that ladle hold ?? that is not a bottom pour ladle is it ?

[oldandslow]

cs, 8/22/13

I have the same NOE 70 grain 4-cavity mold and have been using it for about six months. I use it for my LMT AR with a 1:7 twist and was out this morning shooting it. I've got 400 rounds through the LMT with no issues. With the long unsupported nose you have to keep the velocity down to medium-slow ranges or the nose twists off. It does well to about 2000 ft/second and I have nose-body separation at 2200 ft/second using an alloy of 2.4% Antimony, 0.4% Tin and the rest lead. I suppose I could up the tin component and push it a bit faster but it works well at present as a close to medium range rifle.

While casting the mold needs to be prewarmed pretty hot and kept hot. I use a pot temp. of 725-750 degrees and prewarm the mold over a propane cooker with the flame set at its lowest setting. I measured the air temp. just below the mold and it ran about 450 degrees. It takes about ten minutes to slowly prewarm the mold. I use a 20 lb. Lyman pot and bottom pour ladle and it works just fine. I pressure pour and get good boolit fillout.

If you're using it for an AR you need to try different COAL's to see which feed best for your gun. I had some COAL's where the boolit would become severely dinged while feeding from a 20 round mag. After a lot of experimenting I found a COAL that fit the mags well and fed without any boolit damage. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

[Cane_man]

that is a great mold, i have the 55gr 3 banger... it took three solid casting sessions to get all the production oils out of the mold, but now that it is broken in the mold is fantastic and consistent, btw it likes to cast on the hotter side like 735-745 with a fairly fast pace of casting... with ladle pouring your biggest problem will be temp control... a $100 pid temp controller seems expensive on the front end, but that and a $60 Lee 4-20 pot will be a great investment and last many many years for frustration free casting...

[cstrickland]

cs, 8/22/13

I have the same NOE 70 grain 4-cavity mold and have been using it for about six months. I use it for my LMT AR with a 1:7 twist and was out this morning shooting it. I've got 400 rounds through the LMT with no issues. With the long unsupported nose you have to keep the velocity down to medium-slow ranges or the nose twists off. It does well to about 2000 ft/second and I have nose-body separation at 2200 ft/second using an alloy of 2.4% Antimony, 0.4% Tin and the rest lead. I suppose I could up the tin component and push it a bit faster but it works well at present as a close to medium range rifle.

While casting the mold needs to be prewarmed pretty hot and kept hot. I use a pot temp. of 725-750 degrees and prewarm the mold over a propane cooker with the flame set at its lowest setting. I measured the air temp. just below the mold and it ran about 450 degrees. It takes about ten minutes to slowly prewarm the mold. I use a 20 lb. Lyman pot and bottom pour ladle and it works just fine. I pressure pour and get good boolit fillout.

If you're using it for an AR you need to try different COAL's to see which feed best for your gun. I had some COAL's where the boolit would become severely dinged while feeding from a 20 round mag. After a lot of experimenting I found a COAL that fit the mags well and fed without any boolit damage. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

OAS as stated I will be casting for the AR as well, but I went with a 1-9 twist. I am suprised the nose actually twaist off, as I thought this was a supported bore rider configuration . with the alloy you stated what is the drop diameter and weight ?? Also when you stated pressure pour can you elaborate ?? I think I understand that term , but want to make sure.

thanks
CS

[cstrickland]

that is a great mold, i have the 55gr 3 banger... it took three solid casting sessions to get all the production oils out of the mold, but now that it is broken in the mold is fantastic and consistent, btw it likes to cast on the hotter side like 735-745 with a fairly fast pace of casting... with ladle pouring your biggest problem will be temp control... a $100 pid temp controller seems expensive on the front end, but that and a $60 Lee 4-20 pot will be a great investment and last many many years for frustration free casting...

Cane Man

did you pre clean the mold at all before you started molding ?? I had planned to give it a good scrub with a mild detergent, and then bake it dry . I still need to read the recomendations that came with it . My plan is to get a 10 pound pot and fill it, and then cast about 500 bullets at a sitting , so I would only use about 1/2 the lead in the pot. I hope to keep the temperture in check with a bimetal themometer in use with a electirc burner in the 1200 watt range, that has a temp control also.

[oldandslow]

cs, 8/23/13

Drop diameter and wt. for my NOE-225-70 grain gas checked boolits:

The dropped wt.s are in the 72.2 grain range. The dropped diameters for the bottom band average 0.2255", for the top band 0.2250". They get gas-checked and sized with a Lee push through sizer and finish diameter is 0.2252".

When I say I "pressure pour" I mean that I invert the Lyman bottom pour ladle on top of the mold and hold it tightly to the boolit cavity for five seconds as opposed to pouring a stream of lead alloy and letting it slosh into the cavity opening. I get a warmer pour this way as the lead is not cooled by the air while dropping to the mold and the pressure of the lead-column in the ladle gives better band fillout.

As for the boolit nose twisting off- I noticed this when I started recovering fired boolits to assess retained weight and expansion. At 2200 feet/second with water dropped alloy I would get two holes in my recovery buckets for each shot I fired and I would only recover the bottom of the boolits (with all the driving bands). The nose had broken into multiple lead fragments. I use soaked paperback books placed eight feet in front of my rifle. At 1950 ft/second I would get good boolit penetration and recover a full-profile boolit. At 2200 ft/second I'd get just the boolit base weighing about 40 % of the starting boolit weight. I had similar problems with a bore-riding 30-06 180 grain mold and nose deformity or loss and inaccuracy at speeds over 2000 ft/second. Adding extra tin (2%) or copper or antimony in various combinations didn't correct the problem. Larry Gibson has a good "sticky" over at the Castboolits subform titled "RPM threshold..." which lists expected maximum velocities for different twist rate barrels. I'm able to get my 1:7 twist AR a little faster than his numbers but his 30 caliber 1"10 twist rate estimate is right on for my experience. From some reading about bore-riding noses you may get better accuracy at the cost of a lower velocity due to the long unsupported nose. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

[cstrickland]

cs, 8/23/13

Drop diameter and wt. for my NOE-225-70 grain gas checked boolits:

The dropped wt.s are in the 72.2 grain range. The dropped diameters for the bottom band average 0.2255", for the top band 0.2250". They get gas-checked and sized with a Lee push through sizer and finish diameter is 0.2252".

When I say I "pressure pour" I mean that I invert the Lyman bottom pour ladle on top of the mold and hold it tightly to the boolit cavity for five seconds as opposed to pouring a stream of lead alloy and letting it slosh into the cavity opening. I get a warmer pour this way as the lead is not cooled by the air while dropping to the mold and the pressure of the lead-column in the ladle gives better band fillout.

As for the boolit nose twisting off- I noticed this when I started recovering fired boolits to assess retained weight and expansion. At 2200 feet/second with water dropped alloy I would get two holes in my recovery buckets for each shot I fired and I would only recover the bottom of the boolits (with all the driving bands). The nose had broken into multiple lead fragments. I use soaked paperback books placed eight feet in front of my rifle. At 1950 ft/second I would get good boolit penetration and recover a full-profile boolit. At 2200 ft/second I'd get just the boolit base weighing about 40 % of the starting boolit weight. I had similar problems with a bore-riding 30-06 180 grain mold and nose deformity or loss and inaccuracy at speeds over 2000 ft/second. Adding extra tin (2%) or copper or antimony in various combinations didn't correct the problem. Larry Gibson has a good "sticky" over at the Castboolits subform titled "RPM threshold..." which lists expected maximum velocities for different twist rate barrels. I'm able to get my 1:7 twist AR a little faster than his numbers but his 30 caliber 1"10 twist rate estimate is right on for my experience. From some reading about bore-riding noses you may get better accuracy at the cost of a lower velocity due to the long unsupported nose. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

OS thanks for the great feedback. One more question please. When you are pouring with the ladle, and using the method you described( which is what I thought you meant ) do you invert the mold for each cavity ?? so Place the spout in cavity one and turn the mod and pour, then return the mold to the start postion and move to cavity two , then turn it again and so on for each cavity ?? if so do you have any issues with the different cooling times between cavity one and say 4 or 5 ??
thanks again

[oldandslow]

cs, 8/24/13

Yes, I invert the ladle for each cavity. I rotate the mold about 45 degrees to the right and rotate the ladle about 45 degrees to the left and place the ladle's nipple over the mold's fill-hole. Then I turn the mold-ladle unit to the left so I get a vertical pour into the mold and count to five. Then I rotate the mold-ladle unit to the right about 45 degrees and remove the ladle and insert it into the next closest cavity fill-hole and repeat.

When I have filled all the cavities I set the mold down for about ten seconds and visually check the boolits from the last drop and sort them into a "keep" or "remelt" pile. Then it's back to the mold to open the sprue plate and drop the boolits onto a soft cloth. The ten second wait after pouring the last cavity seems to negate any difference in cooling times within the mold. It's actually easier to do it than it is to write about it.

I forgot one thing- I did have some short stroking of the AR action with the cast boolit loads as the velocity is quite a bit slower than FMJ. Putting in a reduced power buffer spring from Brownell's (made by Wolf springs) solved the problem. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

[Wayne Smith]

Can't do that with the Rowell ladle. The Rowell #1 holds a half lb. of lead. That's a lot of lead for some .22 boolits. You need either the Lyman or the RCBS ladle to do the pressure pour trick.
Yes, the Rowell ladle is a bottom pour style.