1873 1st time out

[Riqrob]

79752 Last 7 of 10 shots at 75 yards. 6 o'clock hold, shots strung from top right first to 10 ring last. Did have a bit of leading with 500 G Lee, 60 G Goex FFG, Beeswax\olive oil lube, blow tube between shots.
Couple of questions:
Is this stringing normal?
Is my lighter charge responsible for the leading? (I've had a gun blow up on me so am conservative in loads)

Thanks, Rick

[Skipper]

79752 Last 7 of 10 shots at 75 yards. 6 o'clock hold, shots strung from top right first to 10 ring last. Did have a bit of leading with 500 G Lee, 60 G Goex FFG, Beeswax\olive oil lube, blow tube between shots.
Couple of questions:
Is this stringing normal?
Is my lighter charge responsible for the leading? (I've had a gun blow up on me so am conservative in loads)

Thanks, Rick


I'd bet that your boolit is to small in diameter. You can't pack enough FFG in there to blow it up.

[Riqrob]

Thanks, Skipper
I'll have to search to figure out how to slug and measure the barrel. Barrel looked great before firing, so didn't check for existing lead. Mistake

[Skipper]

Which Lee 500 are you using? Some guys have had stability problems with the 459-500-3R:

79789

The Lyman 457125 works well if you can get it in the right diameter. I've seen many Springfields that slugged .460, .461 and even higher.

If you need a larger slug, Buffalo Arms carries the Bitterroot 500 gn in 20:1 alloy already lubed with SPG:

79790

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=157371&CAT=4137

[bigted]

that buff arms boolit looks very much like my mold I bought from them in .460 diameter. I like to fill the throat with lead for my greaser loads.

I do as such. I shoot cases in the rifle and then I flair the mouth without any sizing. then I measure the case at the neck area and use this size to determine what my chamber desires. example follows;

1- fire form the case.
2- flair the mouth before any sizing.
3- measure the neck area.
4- take this diameter and minus .001 or .002 from this diameter.
5- if the neck measures [for example] .461 then I subtract .001 and wind up with .460 inch. this is the diameter I use to load for this rifle and then begin to experiment with other options in the load to get the best accuracy. it also has the benefit of not having to re-size those cases and therefore the life of the cases are exponentially extended with the only need from then on is to anneal the neck area every so many shootings. just load with powder and a wad ...compress the distance you desire with a COMPRESSION STEM ... hand seat the boolit on the wad and crimp or not ... but do straighten the flair out at least.

also the best thing I did for my loads ...[component wise]... was to get and use SPG lube for my boolits. eventually I will get back to making my own but for now ill use the SPG or even the Bull shop's Nasa lube. the lube properties can and do make a huge difference in the results.

as an added bit of info here is concerning your charge of REAL blackpowder. you will never get an overload with the REAL blackpowder in a stable rifle that is checked out by a smith that knows what to look for. you can in some instances get 80 grains blackpowder shoveled and compressed enough to shoot in a 45-70 case. this is not ever going to be an overload in a sound rifle. you will never get too much powder in those cases to overload your rifle ... that is considering that you do use REAL original blackpowder. the other stuff I cant speak to but original mixed blackpowder will never be a heart burn with the fear of an over load.

good luck.

[concho]

as the barrel fouled up the shots got better evidence of small diameter bullet and oversized bore !

[littlejack]

Rigrob:
Welcome to the CastBoolits.
What alloy are you casting your boolits? You should be casting 20-1 or so. Some folks use 30-1 alloy.
You need to use more FFG. Drop in 70 grains, with a card wad on top. Compress both with compression die, or seat die (not the boolit).
Seat boolit out far enough to bump the lands when chambered. Crimp only enough to take out the case mouth flare.
Regards
Jack

[Riqrob]

Thanks everyone for the reply. I was using soft lead so the points got a little flattened using the bullet seat die. Will follow the off lands hand seating advice and 70 grain load for sure to start.
Regards, Rick

['74 sharps]

I use a .06" Walters vegetable fiber wad in my bp loads, along with a beeswax/Crisco lube and have no leading issues.

[CanoeRoller]

If your loads more or less matched BP pressures, the leading was not due to your powder loads. The most likely cause was either the boolit no matching your barrel diameter or inadequate amounts of lube. 60 grains of Goex is enough powder, as long as you have no air spaces in your cartridge. You might also consider a not too soft alloy, the original military rounds were 16 to 1. An alloy that is too soft can deform upon loading and upon firing.


If you had deformation of the slug as you loaded the cartridge, you may want to modify your die by using a dab of hot glue to customize the seater plug to match your boolit's shape. You can remove the glue later, and it will reduce the amount of deformation you inflict on the slug when seating the round.

The original slugs were quite blunt, heavy nosed and hollow based to bump up to fill whatever the rifle's diameter was. As most of us modern types use flat base, we need to be more careful about matching the as cast boolit to the rifle.

[CanoeRoller]

If your loads more or less matched BP pressures, the leading was not due to your powder loads. The most likely cause was either the boolit no matching your barrel diameter or inadequate amounts of lube. 60 grains of Goex is enough powder, as long as you have no air spaces in your cartridge. You might also consider a not too soft alloy, the original military rounds were 16 to 1. An alloy that is too soft can deform upon loading and upon firing.


If you had deformation of the slug as you loaded the cartridge, you may want to modify your die by using a dab of hot glue to customize the seater plug to match your boolit's shape. You can remove the glue later, and it will reduce the amount of deformation you inflict on the slug when seating the round.

The original slugs were quite blunt, heavy nosed and hollow based to bump up to fill whatever the rifle's diameter was. As most of us modern types use flat base, we need to be more careful about matching the as cast boolit to the rifle.

[Larry Gibson]

Thanks everyone for the reply. I was using soft lead so the points got a little flattened using the bullet seat die. Will follow the off lands hand seating advice and 70 grain load for sure to start.
Regards, Rick

If you really want to learn about loading for the M1873 TD then you should get Spence Wolf's book on loading the 45-70 for the M1873. Once you get the basic down you can use some of the target loading techniqes mentioned.

Larry Gibson