Question about presses.

[montana_charlie]

I started with a Lyman 310 tool, and stayed with it for 15 years before buying a press. That was a Lee turret model, back when they first came out.
So, my ignorance about what presses are out there is pretty profound.

I need to know which are the 'power players' among reloading presses. I am talking about the ones with the greatest amount of 'force' applied to whatever sits on top of the ram.

Which press would you go for if you wanted to resize steel cases...or swage bullets...or crack diamonds...or (well, you get the picture).

And, don't leave out the old ones. What about the Lyman Spartan, or some of the other boat anchors that used to be found on loading benches?

I'm not trying to find a 'new' press...I want a list of 'strong' ones.

CM

[quasi]

Strong? RCBS A-2, A-3, A-4, C+H Heavyweight champion, Hollywood Senior turret, Redding Ultramag, T-7 Turret.

[MtGun44]

RCBS Rockchucker is pretty strong.

Bill

[Kraschenbirn]

Uhmmm...how 'bout the old Bonanza "68" O-frame? I've had mine over 30 years and still use it for full-length resize of milsurp brass and case-forming.

So far a current models, I'd go for the RCBS AmmoMaster 2. Has a full 1" dia ram and will accept 1 1/2"x12 dies for .50 BMG. Don't have one, myself, but know someone who does and I've watched him resize once-fired milsurp .50 BMG without any strain.

Bill

[beagle]

RCBS A-2...if you can find one./beagle

[454PB]

The Lee Classic Turret I got a while back is just as powerful as my old RCBS Rockchuker. It will easily form cases and swage jacketed bullets. plus it will accept all the turrets you have collected for your older Lee turret. All you have to do is swap the heads out, it takes about a minute.

[omgb]

The RCBS Big Max is about as stout as they come outside of swaging presses. It can be found on Ebay for under $300 if one has to have one. A tip though, I know you love to shoot BPCR so I'd like to recommend the Redding T7. it's very stout, accomodates long 3.5" cases and it holds two fulls ets of dies including compression dies. I have one and it beats heck out of my RCBS and my Hornady for loading BP.

[Jon K]

Charlie,

The Lyman Crusher 2 is moderately priced and with the shellholder installed has 4.070" opening.(opening advertised 4 1/2") Has more than enough room to handle 45-2.4 & 570 gr PJ boolit.


Jon

[ebner glocken]

The strongest one I know of is an old herters if you can find one. Better have a strong bench .....they weigh a ton

[Morgan Astorbilt]

The old Pacific Super PrO. Much better design and quality than the A-2 press. Also made by Bair Machine Co., after Pacific folded or was absorbed by Hornady. ( Bair actually made all the Pacific presses) The heavy 1-1/8" ram fed the spent primers into a receptacle on the back side of the press. The only problem with the press, was the set screw that was used to hold in the shell holders would tend to loosen. This was fixed by turning down the top 3/8" of the ram, and drilling a second cross hole on the other side of the set screw hole, and installing a snap ring, as used by other press mfg's.
Morgan

[creekwalker]

All of the above mentioned presses are excellent, one other to consider is the Lee Clasic Cast O frame press. It is far stronger than I would ever have believed possible for a product from Lee. I bought a Lee Classic Cast Turret press because I was so impressed with the improvements in both Classic Cast press models from Lee.

cw

[dromia]

The best for leverage of all the current reloading presses, not swaging presses, is the Redding Ultra Mag.

I also have a Rockchucker, a Co-Ax, an old Redding C frame, a Lee C frame, a Redding T7 Turret, a Lyman 310 die turret, RCBS and Hornady progressives.

All fine tools which give me much pleasure from using but if I had to have just one it would be the Ultra Mag, it has the clearance for large cases, I shoot a lot of big bore BP cartridges, and it has the best leverage. Case resizing is totally effortless with Imperial sizing die wax. It has a removable insert to take the bigger dies, is built like a tank and is extremely well constructed.

[Sundogg1911]

I wouldn't trade my rock chucker for anything. I've never had a problem with it not being able to handle what i've needed it too. (Although I don't swage bullets) A Buddy of mine just bought a Lee Classic "O" frame. That seems to be a great press for the money. a lot stronger than other Lee presses. (Although I still love my cheap-o Lee "C" presses for depriming, and using a Lee Ram prime)

[Char-Gar]

When you talk about press strength you have to consider design, mass and material. There have been some specialty presses out there, but for run of the mill/over the counter presses, I will vote for the discontinued RCBS A2.

The A2 is not much bigger than the current RCBS Rockchucker but is much, much stronger because of the material. The Rockchucker and is cast iron and the A2 is cast steel, and therein lies the difference.

It is not likely a fellow would or could ever break a Rockchucker in ordinary use, but an A2 would be several times stronger when pushed to the very limits of strength. The A2 was the industry standard for many years to form/swage jacketed bullets.

You will pay $200 to $250 for a used A2, when you can find one. If RCBS were to market such a press today, it would sell for about $700.00. This according to RCBS a couple of years back. There is very little need for a press of this strength and hence a very little market. RCBS broke the marketing code on this one.

I have a good A2 and there is no way on earth I would sell it..ever..never!!!

[montana_charlie]

Those are all great answers, guys, and a couple make me feel like 'family'. I refer to Mr. Talley's tailoring of his post to make it most applicable to my BPCR shooting.

Chargar's reply is very interesting because it gets into the actual strength of the materials.
That is actually helpful information in this particular quest for knowledge, because I am really concentrating on a tool that can apply the most 'push' with the ram, and materials which will not fail under that pressure.

I didn't explain the 'job' I have in mind because I didn't want to 'guide' anybody to any particular area. I really do want an overall comparison of capabilities.
A couple mentioned their satidfaction with the RCBS Rockchucker. It is known to be a stout press, but (frankly) it may not be up to the task at hand. Here's the deal...

Rick Kalynuik and I are collaborating on a mechanical means of stretching BPCR brass, because shooting it (to make it grow longer) is too expensive in time and materials...and only moderately effective.

I have figured out a punch-n-die combination that works, but I use it with a 30-ton hydraulic shop press. The procedure is kinda haphazard sounding, and some guys have trouble understanding how to get it done.

So...we are working on a version that anybody can understand, because it works in a reloading press.
The prototype appears to be a good design, 'cuz it works well in a Corbin hydraulic swaging press.

Problem!

The first 'manual' testing was done in Rick's RCBS "RS" press.
It is 'similar' to the Rockchucker, as I understand it.
Rick was only able to push the case and punch through the die by using the very top of the ram's stroke. He had to run the ram to the top then back it down, screw the die in a quarter turn, and stroke the ram again. After multiple repeats, the punch (finally) passed all the way through the die.
In addition to the slowness...he had to apply so much 'arm' he wondered if he was damaging the linkage.

Now, a guy is not going to spend hundreds for a press (like the A-2)...just to re-draw his cases. For that money he can buy new brass. But an 'old' press like the Herter's, if it has 'the bone' AND 'the muscle', might be a reasonable option. I seem to remember eBay sales in the 30-dollar range.

I would also stay away from any 'turret type'. The extra stations are totally unneeded, and that pivot bolt just ain't the same as a stout "O" or massive "C" single-station press.
I know the Lee doesn't have a central pivot, but I can almost visualize peeling the lugs off of that aluminum insert.

I guess what I'm after is a brass cruncher that can compare with a moderately-sized arbor press.
I want to be able to tell a guy that he can use the "X", "Y", or "Z" press to draw brass, so he won't buy the tool unless he has one...or knows somebody who does.

So...now that you can see the goal...anybody want to modify their thinking?

CM

[45 2.1]

Those are all great answers, guys, and a couple make me feel like 'family'. I refer to Mr. Talley's tailoring of his post to make it most applicable to my BPCR shooting.

Chargar's reply is very interesting because it gets into the actual strength of the materials.
That is actually helpful information in this particular quest for knowledge, because I am really concentrating on a tool that can apply the most 'push' with the ram, and materials which will not fail under that pressure.

I didn't explain the 'job' I have in mind because I didn't want to 'guide' anybody to any particular area. I really do want an overall comparison of capabilities.
A couple mentioned their satidfaction with the RCBS Rockchucker. It is known to be a stout press, but (frankly) it may not be up to the task at hand. Here's the deal...

Rick Kalynuik and I are collaborating on a mechanical means of stretching BPCR brass, because shooting it (to make it grow longer) is too expensive in time and materials...and only moderately effective.

I have figured out a punch-n-die combination that works, but I use it with a 30-ton hydraulic shop press. The procedure is kinda haphazard sounding, and some guys have trouble understanding how to get it done.

So...we are working on a version that anybody can understand, because it works in a reloading press.
The prototype appears to be a good design, 'cuz it works well in a Corbin hydraulic swaging press.

Problem!

The first 'manual' testing was done in Rick's RCBS "RS" press.
It is 'similar' to the Rockchucker, as I understand it.
Rick was only able to push the case and punch through the die by using the very top of the ram's stroke. He had to run the ram to the top then back it down, screw the die in a quarter turn, and stroke the ram again. After multiple repeats, the punch (finally) passed all the way through the die.
In addition to the slowness...he had to apply so much 'arm' he wondered if he was damaging the linkage.

Now, a guy is not going to spend hundreds for a press (like the A-2)...just to re-draw his cases. For that money he can buy new brass. But an 'old' press like the Herter's, if it has 'the bone' AND 'the muscle', might be a reasonable option. I seem to remember eBay sales in the 30-dollar range.

I would also stay away from any 'turret type'. The extra stations are totally unneeded, and that pivot bolt just ain't the same as a stout "O" or massive "C" single-station press.
I know the Lee doesn't have a central pivot, but I can almost visualize peeling the lugs off of that aluminum insert.

I guess what I'm after is a brass cruncher that can compare with a moderately-sized arbor press.

So...now that you can see the goal...anybody want to modify their thinking?

CM

I have the Herters O Super you spoke of, good press but the weak part is the handle, which can be broken off. It is about equal to the Rockchucker for leverage. Better yet is Corbins swaging press that looks like an overgrown reloading press. It will eat a Rockchuckers lunch and kick sand in its face. Should you want some testing assistance, PM me.

[Char-Gar]

Nope.. No change of mind... I will stick with the RCBS A2. Slip about a four foot length of pipe over the handle to increase the leverage and you will make short work out of your project. You get on the end of the long pipe handle and have your buddy feed the brass.

45 2.1 is correct about the Corbin press and it is one of those "speciality" presses I spoke about. Old West Scrounger used to market a supersize Rockchucker style press called the Rockcrusher.

I also have of those old Herters O presses also. It has the mass, but lacks the design and materials of other presses. They will do just fine for normal reloading, but you can bust them if you try real hard. The cast iron is not of the highest quality.

[montana_charlie]

I have the Herters O Super you spoke of, good press but the weak part is the handle, which can be broken off.

I also have of those old Herters O presses also. It has the mass, but lacks the design and materials of other presses. They will do just fine for normal reloading, but you can bust them if you try real hard. The cast iron is not of the highest quality.
Okay, I get it, guys. The Herter's tool I was thinking of is not even an "O" type.
It's a massive C-type my rancher friend used for a hundred years, and recently retired in favor of a Dillon (that poops 'em out faster than he can shoot 'em).

That old boat anchor is so heavy...(How heavy is it?)
It's so heavy I thought I'd have to disassemble it, and bring it home in two trips.

Now, I'll leave it alone to avoid the risk of breaking his antique.

Well, you guys have given me the information I sought (I think). It is looking more and more like the reloading press-type tool must be reserved for those guys who have access to RCBS A-2's and Corbins.

CM

[Char-Gar]

Charlie.... This reloading stuff and which press to use, has allot to do with the way a man looks at things. I have always felt a man should buy the very best he can afford and enjoy the process of reloading. It is no fun, to have a piece of equipment that gives problems, and needs adjustment to work as it should.

I started in 1958 with a Pacific Super C and used that press for thirty years. I wanted an A2 but they were beyond my pocket book. After thirty years I bought a Rockchucker and used it with pleasure for another 10 years. I gave the old Super C to a young fellow who was starting into reloading and it is probably still working just fine.

After 10 years with the Rockchucker I bought a 50's vintage A2 and gave the Rockchucker to another friend. Along the way, I added a Redding Turrent and the old Herters Super O.

I reload, size bullets, form cases and do all of the other basic reloading tasks on the A2. It is so smooth and slick, it is scary. I can Fl size 30-06 cases with very little effort. I use the Redding for cranking out handgun ammo.

High quality presses not only work well and give pleasure, but they do so decade after decade. You can't put a cost effective value on one of these gizmos. The extra cost of these tool will be long forgotton and you will still be using them with pleasure when the others are loosey goosey junk and have been worked on time and time again with the accompanying frustration.
T

[50 Caliber]

I have a Lyman Spartan and its been in service in one way or another for 30+ years in my family.[smilie=1:

[montana_charlie]

I have a Lyman Spartan and its been in service in one way or another for 30+ years in my family.[smilie=1:
I know what you're saying, mister. But, with proper care any good tool should last a long time. The question here is 'capability'.
My 30-year-old Lyman 310 tool is still in fine shape...but totally incapable of doing some pretty commonplace jobs.

Have you ever put some truly heavy stress on that Spartan?
CM

[Buckshot]

..............The weak link in most ANY press whose ram takes the universal shellholder, if used for 'Above and beyond' type work is the 'T' slot. It may collapse and/or mushroom. CH used to sell hardened rams for the RockChucker when doing bullet swaging work. This may not be an issue anymore if RCBS and others have gone to hardened rams as factory issue items. The CH Champion came fitted with a hardened ram from the git-go.

.................Buckshot

[montana_charlie]

That's an interesting note, Buckshot, but I think we have already avoided that problem.
Does that also mean that the Rockchucker was appropriate for bullet swaging as long as it was fitted with a hardened ram?

Which kind of swaging...stuffing lead inside a jacket...or the real thing?
CM

[omgb]

RCBS stands for Rock Chuck Bullet Swage and as such, the original press was designed to swage 22 caliber bullets. It was an idea that featured spent 22 cases, run into a drawing die and then filled with lead wire. These were then run into a forming die and the result was a 22 cal varmit bullet. Fred Huntington was a clever guy.

[Swagerman]

The strongest one I know of is an old herters if you can find one. Better have a strong bench .....they weigh a ton


================================================== =====

He speaks of that which he knows...except he didn't know that its called a Herter's Super-O-Maximum Herter's press.

Just so happens I have one that was made from a WW-2 Battleship anchor...see picture.

This press has a two stage linkage system to adjust ram height...it is a tough muther. :mrgreen:

However, for the market today I'd recomend the Lee Classic Turret as the best value for the buck.

Jim


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PB090012.jpg

[MtGun44]

Wow!

That's a pretty hefty looking piece of equipment. [smilie=1:

The only press that I've ever seen that was bigger and beefier
is a friend's giant turret press for .50 cal and smaller, it is a
Hollywood Senior or something like that. In any case it is
about 24" tall and has a 12-14" diameter turret with turned
handles like a small ship's wheel. I have a smaller version
of a Hollywood turret, about 2/3 the size.

I presume that Herter's was intending this for bullet swaging.
Thanks for the pic.

Bill

[Scrounger]

Speaking of presses, I bought this one today off GrayBeard's Classified. I think LLoyd was interested in it but somehow I guess my post was the one the owner saw first. I sent Lloyd a PM telling him he could have it for what I have in it ($45) if he has any interest. I bought it because I thought the price was pretty good. I hope to hear from Lloyd before the gentleman ships it to me, I can just have him ship it direct and save a bunch of shipping money.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o9/artcompton/Dscf0852.jpg

[cr17]

Good day - interesting thread. Could I ask your opinions on the Redding T6 press? I have a friend who's got one for sale.

Thanks

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Are you sure you don't mean the T-25? It's got six die capacity. I've got one, and use it for pistol ammo. The T-25 is strongly built, but doesn't have the compound linkage that the new T-7 does. Much like the difference between an RCBS Jr. and a Rockchucker.
Morgan

[montana_charlie]

As stout as it is, with the handle all the way down if you watch close you can see the extruded lead slowly oozing out for a bit before stopping. The press has deformed or stretched with the pressure and slowly equalizes.
That is rather enlightening...
Do you have any way to estimate how much force you are generating?

I guess a guy could squeeze on a wheel cylinder full of brake fluid, that has a pressure gauge screwed in the hole where the brake line would go.
Knowing the diameter of the pistons should make it mathematical to figure psi.
CM

[Nueces]

MC, do a search on the RCBS site for 'solid ram' and you'll turn up a solid replacement ram for the Rock Chucker and also a special order bullet swaging RC that uses this solid ram. There are no pictures, but I think 'solid' refers to the lack of the priming slot, meaning there is still a shellholder t-slot.

Mark

[Adam10mm]

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebC
onnect/,DanaInfo=shop.rcbs.com+MainServl
et?action=CatalogSearch&langId=en_US&sto
reId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&s
creenlabel=index&pageSize=15&beginIndex=
0&resultType=3&orderBy=1&searchType=0&searchDescription=solid+ram (https://shop.rcbs.com
/WebConnect/,DanaInfo=shop.
rcbs.com+MainServlet?action=
CatalogSearch&langId=en_US&st
oreId=webconnect&catalogId=
webconnect&screenlabel=index&page
Size=15&beginIndex=0&resultType=3&
orderBy=1&searchType=0&searchDescriptio
n=solid+ram)

There is the link Nueces is talking about.

[Lloyd Smale]

Ive got a rockcrusher and a lyman orange crusher and there both equaly strong. Unless a guy is swadging bullets there all about an overkill though. first press i ever had was a lyman sparT turrent press that was basicaly a week c press and it did everything it was ever asked to do.

[montana_charlie]

Unless a guy is swadging bullets there all about an overkill though.
Would you guess they are strong enough to re-draw brass cases without being damaged, Lloyd?
CM

[Lloyd Smale]

no clue pal ive never done it.
Would you guess they are strong enough to re-draw brass cases without being damaged, Lloyd?
CM

[montana_charlie]

Yep, the Lee Classic is plenty strong to do bullet shape swaging, and I'm not just talking about soft lead wire...it can handle Meister Cast bullets which is reputed to be pretty hard lead.
Ok, Jim. I'll put it on my list as a 'strong possible' for case drawing. Thanks.

no clue pal ive never done it.
I asked because that is what this thread is about...and I was having some trouble evaluating your contribution.
CM

[Buckshot]

...............My sincere apologies to those who see their posts missing. I had intended to move all the swageing posts into a new thread. This is did, and it's titled "Swageing Stuff". The part I messed up was I 'Merged' all the posts instead of merely moving them.

I'm really sorry :-( I hope that the thread can continue from there. Since the swageing stuff wasn't really germain to Montana Charlie's original question I thought I'd move it.

Now I know what I did wrong but I can't put it back. Bummer.

.............Buckshot

[Swagerman]

Oh the anger management making me have to grind my molars down to the gums. [smilie=b:

Ah that's alright Rick. No one pays much attention to what I've got to say anyway. :kidding:

But if you really are sorry, you could make me a swaging die in .433 diameter...:mrgreen:

Jim

[Lloyd Smale]

sorry if you feel i stepped out of line in your post but i thought part of the post conserned bullet swadging too and ive done that on both of my o presses. thats why i stated that they were an overkill unless you were swadging. I didnt realize that when you said case drawing it was nothing but swadgeing. I thought it was possible way you were making cases. As thats what they call that.
Ok, Jim. I'll put it on my list as a 'strong possible' for case drawing. Thanks.

I asked because that is what this thread is about...and I was having some trouble evaluating your contribution.
CM

[montana_charlie]

sorry if you feel i stepped out of line in your post
Obviously, we are suffering from a 'communication' problem, Lloyd. I had no intention of implying you were 'out of line', though I was wondering if you might be 'off topic'.

but i thought part of the post conserned bullet swadging too
Yes, the thread did turn to bullet swaging, but mainly because that is the kind of heavy job which most closely resembles the kind of power needed for drawing cases. I appreciated those who responded with 'swaging' information, because it gave me a reference to work from, and I even asked for a few details in that line of thinking.
Someone who had not read the entire thread might easily have thought it is a 'swaging discussion'.

and ive done that [swaging] on both of my o presses
Ah! But you didn't say that!
You told me those presses had about the same strength, but seemed to feel that both were stronger than needed for general reloading. You never indicated that you had successfully swaged bullets with them. I asked if you had ever drawn brass with them...just in case I was missing a point which you intended to get across to me.

I didnt realize that when you said case drawing it was nothing but swadgeing.
Actually, I wouldn't define the two operations the same way. Swaging is a 'packing together' while drawing is a 'stretching out'. But it's true that both involve using pressure to make metal conform to a particular shape...so both operations require similar 'power' to do the work.

Sorry if you got a wrong impression...
CM

[Lloyd Smale]

im far from a serious or experienced swadger. A buddy gave me a bunch of stuff to make 41 swcs and i may have made about 500 before i screwed the nose punch up. Im not really into the 41 that much and if it were in 44 i may have gotten a little more serious and learned all the lingo. It was pretty cool though. What i really liked doing was just using a gas check instead of a jacket and tumble lubing them. Little buggers reallly shot!! I guess im getting off topic here again. Sorry and no harm done.

[montana_charlie]

He speaks of that which he knows...except he didn't know that its called a Herter's Super-O-Maximum Herter's press.
Well, it's not the Super O Maximum, but there's a U3 Super on eBay right now.
It's pretty massive, and looks like something I can't break.

I don't actually 'need' it, but may bid if it doesn't generate any real interest...
CM