45-90 Revisited

[TXGunNut]

Finally getting to resume the project that brought me to Cast Boolits! Starting over pretty much from scratch but things seem to be coming together after a few long delays and distractions. Fixed the mainspring issue and that fixed the vertical stringing issue. I've decided to take this old IAB/Pedretti & Sons 1874 hunting so I'm looking for a hunting load, Lyman's 457193 lubed w/ SPG over KIK powder is all I've decided on. It's a 1:18 twist barrel with a tight 45-90 chamber. Seating depth is pretty much fixed as it won't chamber a round with much more than .015 of the driving band exposed. Chamber also requires a slight taper crimp to remove the flare but other than that boolits seat nicely in the fireformed cases with finger pressure only. Using .060 wads as that's what I have, may do some tweaking in that area as things start coming together.
Had to laugh at myself when loading a few rounds tonight. I got out my 45-70 dies as always and finally realized I don't use them. I use a BACO custom sizer in a Lyman body, followed by a powder compression die in the same body. Taper crimp is applied by a Lyman taper crimp die.
Still working on the powder charge. Accidentally loaded 80 grns 1.5Fg KIK (.230 compression) under the 457193 the other day and it seems to work better than what I was trying before. Also tried a friend's "express loads" of a commercial cast 300gr (+/-) over 83 grains of 1.5 KIK. Seemed to do OK but decided to try 82 and 84 grns (.290 and .370 compression, respectively) under the 457193 next trip. Seems like a lot of compression but I figure it's a lot of powder, I'll let the rifle tell me what works. 80 grns was a little dirty, hoping a bigger charge will clean that up as well. Needed a wet patch after 3 rounds. Using Federal magnum rifle primers for now, getting a little low on other large primers and don't have any other use for them. Have a good supply of FFg in KIK and Swiss so may try that if the 1.5Fg doesn't work out. My plan is to get the powder variable figured out, then work on the primer variable. Hopefully availability will improve soon.
Also found a front sight that my eyes are happy with so I may just get this old rifle figured out someday. Only downside is that if I figure out how to shoot this rifle I'll probably pull the trigger on that Shiloh 1874 I've had spec'd out for several months now. ;)
Haven't given this project much thought until recently, read a bunch of old posts this weekend. Am I missing anything? Suggestions?

[Don McDowell]

Shiloh has a Hartford on the available list at the moment, sort of a plain janer, but at 2200...:kidding:

[TXGunNut]

Shiloh has a Hartford on the available list at the moment, sort of a plain janer, but at 2200...:kidding:


STOP IT!!!! :wink: .....mebbe I'll look at it tomorrow. The one I spec'd is not very plain but I figure I'll only buy one, might as well make it a showpiece.

[Don McDowell]

Bwaaahhhhaaaaa.......http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/product.php?productid=318&cat=22&page=1

[TXGunNut]

Nice rifle, kinda had something a little fancier in mind....http://www.shilohrifle.com/shop/cart.php?mode=wishlist.

[wyoduster]

I have a 40-90 bn in a shiloh for sale....

[TXGunNut]

I have a 40-90 bn in a shiloh for sale....

Kicking around a 40 cal, just pipe dreams at the moment. Need to get some health issues resolved and expenses covered first.

[TXGunNut]

Spaghetti Sharps had a good day at the range yesterday, didn't like the loads much but it gave me something to do while another rifle cooled. My old eyes like my new front sight insert. Temps hit 100 well before noon yesterday. 82 grains produced hard fouling, hard to push out with the jag and patches I had on hand. A guy on the next bench recommended .150 compression for the KIK, think I've read that around here somewhere. Scored some standard LP and LR primers yesterday, guess I'll have to find something else to do with the Federal LR Mag primers. Need a softer alloy as well, these were cast for my GG from 50-50. Guess I better dig out some 20-1 and fire up the furnace.
Hate to change so many variables but I'm thinking .150" compression, LP primers and 20-1 alloy for my next trip. How's that sound?

[sharpsguy]

Check the twist on that Pedretti.If I'm not mistaken, it is 1-18. If that is the case, it will not be accurate with a bullet weighing less than 480 grains. It will shoot the Lyman 457125 Govt. bullet at 520 grains and the Lyman 457132 Postell at 535 grains. It is going to be happy with 83 grains of KIK 2f which will require pre compression with a compression die before you seat the bullet. Any STANDARD, not magnum, large rifle or large pistol primer will work. If you want to achieve any sort of accuracy with a 340 to 420 grain bullet, you will have to use a slower 1-20 or 1-22 twist.

[TXGunNut]

I believe you're correct, sharpsguy. My new friend at the range told me I needed a heavier boolit but he was speaking from his 25 yrs experience as a BPCR comp shooter. I have a 457125 mould but I'm looking for a hunting load and my goal is hunting accuracy and performance, not competition. This rifle will never make it as a comp rifle and I wasted all my comp shooting years shooting PPC. I'll move up to the 457125 if the 457193 doesn't work out. This is just a fun gun, possibly a hunting rifle. Haven't ruled out a season or two of BPCR comp but there's just no way I can get serious about it at this time.

[sharpsguy]

The 457125 is one of the all time great hunting bullets. It was designed to shoot all the way through horses and disrupt a cavalry charge. I have killed a lot of animals with it, both here and in Africa. You will not be disappointed with its performance on game.

[concho]

{Any STANDARD, not magnum, large rifle or large pistol} ?????? Please explain ? I have only used Fed 215 primers in all my BPCT calibers 40/65 , 45/70, 45/90, 40/90 50/95, with Hodgton T7 3F , and 2 to 1 mix black powder ! No unburned powder and cleaner barrel .

[sharpsguy]

Shooting straight black powder you will get better accuracy with a milder primer. Shooting substitutes is a different ball game. The OP indicated that he is using straight black powder.

[TXGunNut]

Yes, I'm hardheaded, concho. I prefer BP in cartridges that were designed for them. My buddy and I generally spend our range time shooting a half-dozen or so BP cartridges in guns that actually were built before SP was available, we've found they are fine shooters and seem to perform best with them. Some of these guns belong in a museum but I talked my buddy into shooting BP in one of his old revolvers a few years ago and he keeps on dragging out old 1873's, an 1876 and this past weekend a Springfield and we shoot them the way someone shot them over 100 years ago. There's no "substitute" for that. We even shoot BP in our replicas and the NIB Colt SAA I stumbled across a few months back has seen nothing but BP & lead.
And you're right, sharpsguy, the 457125 will probably serve me just fine as a hunting boolit. I've grown fond of hunting boolits with meplats, I just need to accept that this rifle and the 457125 were made for each other. I found some 20-1 and even a small handful of 457193's in 20-1 stashed away, will put them to good use soon.

[TXGunNut]

Too hot to shoot today so I'm casting some 457125's and maybe some 457193's INSIDE. Casting outside this time of year is nonsense. Need to keep better notes, have forgotten a few things about how to cast these big single-cav bruisers. For some reason (for me, anyway) they like to be ladle-poured at 650 degrees. Pace is a lot slower than the six-cav moulds as well.

[TXGunNut]

Cast up a bunch of 457125's from 20-1 yesterday, along with some 457193's from the same alloy. Loaded them over 77 gr's 1.5F KIK for .150 compression and went out for my hottest range trip of the year. It was worth it! 457193's weren't very impressive, I think they actually did better over 80 grs. 457125's were as good as I can shoot. Should have put up a new target after this one tore but the backer told the story, had 6 out of 10 into a ragged hole. One obviously got away from me or possibly had a bad base, I got up this morning with no ammo loaded for either rifle.
Target was @ 100 yds.



80736

[bigted]

it is outrageous how those 457125's do so well huh? they do as well in just about any 45-70 I have tried them in. my 45-120 handles them well also. my browning 45-70 digests them with great aplomb however it needs them to be loaded out so the entire first grease groove is exposed and kissing the rifling when the action is closed.

[TXGunNut]

Just wish it wasn't so picky, for some reason I thought I'd have more flexibility on boolit type and alloy.
Think I'll load a few more for tomorrow, see if I can't do a little better. Was pretty hot & uncomfortable that day, I think I held the rifle back a bit.

[bigted]

definitely the weather has a great deal to do with how well my rifles shoot ... [smilie=s: ... THEY act up when its too cold AND WHEN ITS TOO hot. the stupid rifles go a bit haywire when there is a wisp of air moving too ... :drinks: ... when I drink too much coffee they tend to act ridiculous too. when they start acting up I just hunker down and let a few minutes go by so they will settle down a bit. if they are just not going to cooperate then I just pack the dang things up and take em rite back home. we have a chat as I clean em up and find an understanding so that outta guilt I spose ... the next time I take em out they seem to try harder for me and my chat with em begins a bit less harsh.

just gotta show em who is the boss ... I think !!

[TXGunNut]

The nice lady directing my recovery from an inner ear disorder thinks it may be affecting my shooting. She told me to take time off from my development projects and shoot something with known performance to see if I was able to shoot it as well as before.
That sounds kinda boring to me but I'll give it a try...eventually.

[bigted]

indeed ... I get hit with the bug of ... what do they know? I recon they will actually find an acorn eventually tho so ... maybe im the acorn they are able to pick up sooo ... time to time I listen and actually learn that all that schoolin didn't go to waste on their account ... LOL.

good luck friend and im hopin you heal up fast.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, it's a type of vertigo that is very stubborn and sometimes is not "curable" but I truly don't know if it's affected my rifle shooting. Not going to try wingshooting anytime soon but I always suck at that anyway.
My pistol shooting still seems to be pretty good but I have to work harder at it, she may be right. May have to drag out my 17 HMR or my 30-06 M70 Super Grade. I know what they like, know what they can do. Only problem is they shoot j-words. :sad:

[bigted]

shootin is shootin my friend. and if shootin those jaxeted is going to help or prove sumptin then I say shoot em all up bubba. im hopin you don't have a permanent thing goin on and that it be just a passin thing. get well soon and my prayer is with you.