So is there a 22LR swage die set to create a Round nose FMJ profile bullet

[bruce drake]

I'm curious if there is a die set that someone makes which forms a Round-nose FMJ profile in .224 from 22LR brass. I'm just thinking outside the box as to what could be a very simple die set.

Bruce

[bruce drake]

basically its putting the 22LR shell and lead core into the die with the closed end of the brass first and then forming the nose that way with lead core exposed at the bottom of the bullet.

[303british.com]

Hi Bruce. Any .224 bullet set can handle this. I've got two .224 sets, and it is as you said, you just flip it around. A 6S will do this with no problems. You just don't push the bullet all the way into the die. You can also get a 1E die set.

I think if you were to poll the swagers here, almost everyone has inadvertently fed one in backwards. )

[bruce drake]

Thanks Steve. I'm just exploring the options of swaging at this point and I figured this would be the easiest one to form consistently as a new swager.

I also was thinking that perhaps the nose could be formed by the punch pushing the case through the first derimming die before the lead core was put in. I was also thinking of how the core would be sealed into the bullet with either a crimp or a fold over of the end into a boat tail base. I don't know how that's done unless its with another die which I'm sure someone has already thought of this as this sub-forum is pretty in-depth.

I was also thinking how heavy of a 30 cal bullet could be made with a 32ACP and a 30 Carbine case as well. Those of course would have to be built using the standard approach because of the thicker cartridge base.

And Steve, you know my love for the 303 British cartridge so you know I am curious if anyone makes affordable .311 or .312 dies as well.

Bruce

[303british.com]

Thanks Steve. I'm just exploring the options of swaging at this point and I figured this would be the easiest one to form consistently as a new swager.

I also was thinking that perhaps the nose could be formed by the punch pushing the case through the first derimming die before the lead core was put in. I was also thinking of how the core would be sealed into the bullet with either a crimp or a fold over of the end into a boat tail base. I don't know how that's done unless its with another die which I'm sure someone has already thought of this as this sub-forum is pretty in-depth.

I was also thinking how heavy of a 30 cal bullet could be made with a 32ACP and a 30 Carbine case as well. Those of course would have to be built using the standard approach because of the thicker cartridge base.

And Steve, you know my love for the 303 British cartridge so you know I am curious if anyone makes affordable .311 or .312 dies as well.

Bruce

I don't know if you read another post in this section, but putting a nose onto the jacket while derimming can cause problems. Because of the pressures involved in point forming, shaping the jacket into an FMJ RN is absolutely no problem.

Forming BT bullets requires an extra die. You have to form the BT as a separate step.

To get a basic understanding of the swaging process, this is a great link. It's an online/PDF book that you can read through. It will answer all of your questions, with the added bonus of being able to go back and review.

http://corbins.com/hb-9-e.htm

WRT the the .311/.312 dies, Richard or Dave Corbin can make them, If this bullet would be shot from a Lee Enfield, I strongly suggest that you slug the bore! Even with obturation, the reason that most .311s don't shoot worth a darn from LEs is because the bullets are too small. The original design plans called for a 0.314 bullet. In the past, I tried to exokain to people that .316 or .317 diameter bullets were not grossly oversized. They were only 0.002 or 0.003 oversized. That's why the rejection diameter was set at anything over .316.

[303british.com]

Thanks Steve. I'm just exploring the options of swaging at this point and I figured this would be the easiest one to form consistently as a new swager.

I also was thinking that perhaps the nose could be formed by the punch pushing the case through the first derimming die before the lead core was put in. I was also thinking of how the core would be sealed into the bullet with either a crimp or a fold over of the end into a boat tail base. I don't know how that's done unless its with another die which I'm sure someone has already thought of this as this sub-forum is pretty in-depth.

I was also thinking how heavy of a 30 cal bullet could be made with a 32ACP and a 30 Carbine case as well. Those of course would have to be built using the standard approach because of the thicker cartridge base.

And Steve, you know my love for the 303 British cartridge so you know I am curious if anyone makes affordable .311 or .312 dies as well.

Bruce

I don't know if you read another post in this section, but putting a nose onto the jacket while derimming can cause problems. Because of the pressures involved in point forming, shaping the jacket into an FMJ RN is absolutely no problem.

Forming BT bullets requires an extra die. You have to form the BT as a separate step.

To get a basic understanding of the swaging process, this is a great link. It's an online/PDF book that you can read through. It will answer all of your questions, with the added bonus of being able to go back and review.

http://corbins.com/hb-9-e.htm

WRT the the .311/.312 dies, Richard or Dave Corbin can make them, If this bullet would be shot from a Lee Enfield, I strongly suggest that you slug the bore! Even with obturation, the reason that most .311s don't shoot worth a darn from LEs is because the bullet diameter is too small. The original design plans called for a 0.314 bullet. In the past, I tried to explain to people that .316 or .317 diameter bullets were not grossly oversized. They were only 0.002 or 0.003 oversized. That's why the rejection diameter was set at anything over .316.

[MUSTANG]

Thanks Steve. I'm just exploring the options of swaging at this point and I figured this would be the easiest one to form consistently as a new swager.

I also was thinking that perhaps the nose could be formed by the punch pushing the case through the first derimming die before the lead core was put in. I was also thinking of how the core would be sealed into the bullet with either a crimp or a fold over of the end into a boat tail base. I don't know how that's done unless its with another die which I'm sure someone has already thought of this as this sub-forum is pretty in-depth.

I was also thinking how heavy of a 30 cal bullet could be made with a 32ACP and a 30 Carbine case as well. Those of course would have to be built using the standard approach because of the thicker cartridge base.

And Steve, you know my love for the 303 British cartridge so you know I am curious if anyone makes affordable .311 or .312 dies as well.

Bruce


1. Before you go and ruin .30 carbine brass (getting very hard/expensive to come by these days for those of us with M1 Carbines) by using it to form jackets, drop me a PM and discuss swapping. I am awaiting a .30 Jacket Making die, probably be January before it's completed, but I would discuss trading .30 jackets for .30 carbine cases.

2. 5.56 cases are plentiful and have been proposed/used for jacket fabrication.

a. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?110422-5-56-cases-as-308-jacket

b. I believe that BT sniper had posted somewhere over the last few years where he fabricated .30 Jackets by cutting 5.56 cases and using the fore end for one jacket formation, and the aft end for another jacket formation. Did not find it on a quick search, but I am sure it's out there somewhere in archives.

c. 9mm to .308 jacket:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?127123-9mm-cases-to-308-jackets


Mustang

[bruce drake]

I own a P14 and several Lee-Enfields so I get the best of both worlds. A tight bore with the P14 and some seriously loosey-goosey L-Es!

I'll get the pdf and start reading. My issues is that I have this swaging project idea, a AR15 6.5 Grendel build, a custom .224 (75gr) mold purchase and a rechambering of a Mauser (to 8mm-06) on the immediate home front so I have too many projects and great ideas going on...

Bruce

[bruce drake]

Mustang,

somebody was shooting some berdan primed Chinese 30 carbine at a range in Kansas and I swept up a couple of hundred of them last summer so I would'nt consider it if they were boxer-primed. I'm surprised no one has ever used 32ACP cases for light-weight bullets for an AK/SKS or at least done it here.

[MUSTANG]

Mustang,

somebody was shooting some berdan primed Chinese 30 carbine at a range in Kansas and I swept up a couple of hundred of them last summer so I would'nt consider it if they were boxer-primed. I'm surprised no one has ever used 32ACP cases for light-weight bullets for an AK/SKS or at least done it here.


It's not tailored to the SKS/AK; but see this link (Start at Post #14) for .32ACP used as jacket on .30 bullet. Home Brew jacket/bullet making.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?210129-Making-30-Cal-Dies&p=2350854#post2350854

Mustang

[bruce drake]

Mustang,

Those look like a Speer Half-Jacket cup with all that lead exposed. I was envisioning the 32 ACP Case being the majority of the bullet with a smaller lead tip to be closer to 110 or 125gr in weight. Thanks for the photo link though! That does let me know that 32ACP cases can be used for 30 cal projectiles.

Bruce

[MUSTANG]

Check out the following link with pics at various stages of making .308 using 9mm as jacket.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?127123-9mm-cases-to-308-jackets

[bruce drake]

I see that thread as a proof of concept and the idea of putting the case in a lathe (or a drill) to file off the 32ACP semi-rim should be another proof of the feasibility of doing this. I was considering using 32ACP cases with a Lee 311 100gr RN bullet seated in the annealed case for 308 diameter bullets of around 130-150gr weight (I haven't tested the final weight of this combo yet)

Can a RCBS JR3 press handle the pressure required to swage a 22 caliber bullet? If not, I think it will be a project for the fall to build a concave round headed pin to tap a cap over a mandrel to shape the 22LR casing into a round-nose profile and then pour melted lead into the bullet... slow but most likely a labor of love.

Bruce

[Grapeshot]

I see that thread as a proof of concept and the idea of putting the case in a lathe (or a drill) to file off the 32ACP semi-rim should be another proof of the feasibility of doing this. I was considering using 32ACP cases with a Lee 311 100gr RN bullet seated in the annealed case for 308 diameter bullets of around 130-150gr weight (I haven't tested the final weight of this combo yet)

Can a RCBS JR3 press handle the pressure required to swage a 22 caliber bullet? If not, I think it will be a project for the fall to build a concave round headed pin to tap a cap over a mandrel to shape the 22LR casing into a round-nose profile and then pour melted lead into the bullet... slow but most likely a labor of love.

Bruce

I've used .32 ACP cases to make .357 diameter bullets. They do well at that.

[Cane_man]

how is a lead round nose formed in the point forming die? is a rounded ogive profile punch used? i believe these are parabolic ogives...

[mroliver77]

The new guy from Russia makes his bullets with a round nose ans open lead base.
J

[Lizard333]

I have done the round nose bullet reversing it in the point form die of my RCE dies, but they grenade coming out if the barrel. Picture a banana peel. Not pretty. The 22LR jackets are to thin to support the base. If someone has a fix for that, you would be in good shape.

[bruce drake]

Thanks for the feedback on the "Banana effect"

I just bought 308 half-cup swage die set from a fellow member here on the forum so I may be exploring more of these options in the future.

[GONRA]

GONRA sez Bruce Drake should remember those Chicom .30 Carbine LC 52 MT's are CORROSIVE PRIMED so be careful on cleanup!

[bruce drake]

3rd person advice...yeah, that'll stick in people's minds...

nothing that a wet bath won't fix.

[bruce drake]

It's not tailored to the SKS/AK; but see this link (Start at Post #14) for .32ACP used as jacket on .30 bullet. Home Brew jacket/bullet making.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?210129-Making-30-Cal-Dies&p=2350854#post2350854



Mustang
thanks for this link. nice pictures and helps with my own ideas regarding half-cups

[Alex_4x4]

http://www.swagedies.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CBST&Product_Code=PF-1-S&Category_Code=SSWAGE

6-S or 1-E

To reduce the length of use:

http://www.swagedies.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CBST&Product_Code=ET-2-S&Category_Code=SPECIALTY

Cool twist - long, heavy bullets; gentle twist - short, easy bullets.


And you will be happy

174353

[bruce drake]

Sweet! What the ones on the left weighing out at? I have 223Rem rifles in 1-9 and 1-8 twists that I'd like to build 60+gr bullets eventually.

Right now, I'm focusing on the 30 caliber bullet dies first as that is what I have. After I get that die set up, I'll explore the 22 caliber bullets.

[Alex_4x4]

Sweet! What the ones on the left weighing out at? ...

Products on the left weighing 55.3 grains.

My products can be found here: http://forum.guns.ru/forummessage/153/940687-143.html