New Backstop for Range

[schutzen]

I need some help. I am fabricating new backstops for my private range. I am using 5000 gallon fuel tanks laid on their side and then filled with dirt. I want to reduce the size of the tanks to reduce the amount of dirt I need for fill. Currently the tanks are 14 feet long. My question is how short can I make them. Is 3 feet sufficient or do I need 4 feet or 5 feet of dirt. I will be facing the target side with 6" of cottonwood (two layers 3" thick) and the tanks are 8 gauge steel. The largest caliber I plan to shoot is .375 H&H or .338 Mag. Also I do shoot some J-word bullets. Any thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciates. Thanks, Schutzen.

PS: To dispel any fears on cutting and re-welding fuel tanks; I am cutting them with an air saw and sand blasting the inside before re-welding. I have performed this type of work in an industrial environment. Also these tanks have set empty for 10-15 years

[redneckdan]

The deeper penetrating rounds that I've seen go about 4-5' in balistics jell. So to be on the safe side I would go with at least 5' of dirt.

[schutzen]

Dan,
That is a very interesting observation. All ballistic gelatins I have seen are designed to simulate human flesh. My fill will be clay based soil that is much denser. When watered and packed, it becomes almost like adobe. I suspect I can safely reduce the 4-5 feet to 3-4 feet. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Schutzen

[44woody]

schutzen just a thought but I think I would make it to where I could reclaim the lead seeing how lead is getting harder to get another thing I would do is just cut off one end and pack it 3/4 full of dirt and have your target in front of it that way if some one complained of the lead contaminating the ground you would be covered there :castmine:44Woody

[Buckshot]

................44Woody has a good idea. Then you can mine your own backstop very simply. So far as I know, about 2-3' of dirt will stop any boolit fired from a rifle at the shoulder, and not requiring a trailer hitch and wheels.

...............Buckshot

[schutzen]

44Woody & Buckshot:

That was the idea of the 6" of cottonwood facing the target area. I suspect most of the lead will stop in the wood. I can refresh this wood annually and burn the center boards for lead recovery.

[fourarmed]

I think you might be expecting too much of 6" of cottonwood. I cut down a big cottonwood a while back, and used stumps about 18" long for target holders. I was shooting into the end grain, and it wasn't long before cast bullets were coming out the other end.

[45 2.1]

................44Woody has a good idea. Then you can mine your own backstop very simply. So far as I know, about 2-3' of dirt will stop any boolit fired from a rifle at the shoulder, and not requiring a trailer hitch and wheels.

...............Buckshot

Thats a good one, try digging out a heavy 500 gr. slug shot at 1200 fps or so. Put a really long rod in the hole first to see how deep it goes.

[schutzen]

Fourarmed: That is very interesting. I have not used cottonwood before, but this was free and there for good. However, I may have to reevaluate and go with oak. Reject oak planks are still reasonably cheap.

45 2.1: Another interesting observation. I do have a 45-70, but have not shot it in several years. That is one of the rifles I will be using, but I usually shoot 400 grain slugs.

Schutzen

[felix]

Shoot the OAK/HICKORY log lengthwise, and odds are good that it will take 500 boolits or more before showing signs of stress, provided the log is shot straight on, and is sorta' on the green side still, and is around 2 feet long. I shoot mainly pistol rounds in my log in the basement, and the log is losing its moisture after about 3 years down there. The basement seldom goes below 70 percent in humidity. Log needs to be replaced now for 100 percent safety. ... felix

[Moose]

Main point is that you are not stopping just one slug - sorry, boolet - but repeated hits in the same general area, over a considerable period of time. Such a procedure will eventually defeat most any range backstop material. I'm the lucky one, since we have a dirt hill as a backstop, and a neighbor with a backhoe who will re-configure if needed. OTOH, we've been pumping stuff into the same hole for about 20 years and it hasn't gotten much bigger or deeper. In round figures, say 20-30 shots a week from .22LR to .36 BP Cap/Ball to 8x57 /30-06 full house loads. No problem, and the hillside (more of a cut bank, really ) heals itself. So basically, the best backstop is piles of dirt. Of course, if you are building berms up in the middle of a cow pasture, you have to take into account where the shot goes if you let one off high. Figure out what your 'beaten zone" is or will be. In our case we have a safe zone about 3400 yards deep and about 600 yards wide at the far end , not counting stray cows. Don't know what your local law is, like how far from another residence, how far from public roads etc. but it certainly pays to check it out BEFORE the Sheriff shows up to see about the "Gunfire". Anyway, good luck on the project. Oh, and BTW, the NRA has/had plans for ranges and such, before they turned into the shopper's news. Don't know about now. Check their website.. Moose

[Marlin Junky]

What's the best material to fire in, if one wants to recover most of their lead? I shoot mainly clip-on WW metal (hardened and air cooled). I have a high cut bank at the back of my property so I don't need to worry about strays.

MJ

[leftiye]

How about 50 gal drums full of sand shot end on with plywood over the hole. Pour the sand over a piece of hardware cloth and the boolits are left behind. Unless you're a little stronger than me, you'll probly have to shovel the sand onto the screen (heh, heh). Or you could use those sections of barrel that way too, Just make em deep enough to stop yer boolits.

[Marlin Junky]

I'll just have to experiment. I've recovered WW metal from sand which makes a good backstop but it slows boolits down too fast; i.e., 'nuthin left but the shank and specks of lead/lead dust. I've only tried this method close up, (about 50 yards) so at 100 yards it might work satisfactorily.

MJ

[schutzen]

Moose:

My plan is to set up two backstops; one at 100 yards and one at 250 yards. 300 yards behind the 250 yard target is a hillside that rises 15 feet above the top of the backstop, but that 300 yards is wooded. In the 3000 yards behind the hillside there are two homes. One is completely shielded by another hillside and the other is shielded except for a portion if the lawn. This would not work for a commercial range, but for a private range this is less exposure than a normal deer season. A negligent discharge would have to be 15-20 feet above the target area to clear the hillside. My main concern is ricochets. Ricochets from the trees could possibly impact trespassers on the rear of my property. Several teen and pre-teen children cut across the rear of my property on 4-wheelers. Is this legal? No, but I don't want to endanger them either.

[Moose]

Schutzen - You make a good point concerning ricochets, as they are essentially un-predictable. The 'trespasser' issue is a good one, too. The best we can do around here is post the land and use good judgement - by that I mean we don't fire on weekends or school holidays, during hunting season(s) and only during what you might call "business hours". Like 9-to-5. And no, it is not legal for trespassers to dawdle around out there, but that will make no difference if someone gets hurt. It is a problem. But then, so is life, no? Moose

[fenris]

Hi all
here is an idea I have been playing with for a range here in Scott Co. Ky. The soil her consists of clay and field rock not little stone but big slabs. So shooting in to the hillside is not possible the bullets would go who knows where. So I plan on getting a very large culvert from the highway dept one that they are removing from several roads under construction at this time. The culvert is aprox. 9 ft. high and 15 ft. long. First I will be digging out a space into the hillside to accommodate it lengthwise and 4 ft. deeper than it’s Dia. Of 9 ft. high at the rear opening sandbags will be stacked 3 deep and 3 bags above the opening. At the front opening sandbags will be stacked 5deep starting 2ft. in front of the opening and extend back around the outside of it to a height of 5 bags high. A layer of sifted dirt will be covering the culvert starting level behind the frond bags and covering the bags at the rear. I will than fill the inside of it to within 5 ft. of the front opening with sandbags full of sand. At the top of it will be 2 eyelets attached to hold a wood frame to attach targets to in the center of the opening. The max range I have to shoot is about 80 yds. Give or take 5. I have a couple of rules 1 safety-safety- safety is always first. 2 aim at what you are intending to hit and make sure the weapon is going to hit what your aiming at. When I have to zero a new firearm I start at 25yds. And work my way back firing a test shot every 25yds. Re-adjusting the impact point as needed. This may give you another idea of how to build your range.

[Lloyd Smale]

What about wood chips. A guy could go to a local sawmill and get it for free and shoot into it and when he wanted to recover his lead just throw some gas in it and light it on fire.

[schutzen]

Moose,

You make a good point about the Sheriff. He has been out several times in the past. The last trip he brought two deputies and the game warden with him. Between the five of us we burned off about 2000 rounds of pistol ammo. They are all really goods guys, but I want to make sure we never have to meet on a professional basis. Target practice, test fires, and sight ins are a lot of fun; but I'll leave the law enforcement to them.

[redneckdan]

Dan,
That is a very interesting observation. All ballistic gelatins I have seen are designed to simulate human flesh. My fill will be clay based soil that is much denser. When watered and packed, it becomes almost like adobe. I suspect I can safely reduce the 4-5 feet to 3-4 feet. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Schutzen


true. no easy scientific calculations with a built in safety factor came to mind to figure this out. My theory was the the boolits will penetrate to maximium depth in the balistics gel, by changing the medium over to the clay/dirt with the same given thickness you are "unscientificly" incorporating a safety factor into the design.

[fourarmed]

One possibility is three stacks of old tires wired together and filled with dirt. They will last a long time, and it shouldn't be difficult to recover the trapped lead.

[Lloyd Smale]

Dan you need to get down here someday and check out the bullet trap i made. Its a little tough to describe in words but works great. Its all steal and is square in the front about 3'x3' and tapers like a funnel toward the back on all 4 sides into a 3 inch boiler pipe elbow that goes 90 degrees down into a container i made out of steal pipe that is probably 30 inch in diameter. I shoot till its full which is about once a year as i only really use it for load workup and have my neighbor come to the range with his tractor and pick it up and bring in home. tipping it over on a piece of plywood and wacking it a couple times which a sledge hammer will dump it on the plywood and they i shovel it into the smelting pot. It is still work as it is even messier then smelting wws. Its surprising how much wood and paper from the target boards i use on the front of it to hold targets is in that pot. But this year i recovered about 200 lbs of lead i would have wasted in the dirt. I got the idea off of here. Someone once had pictures of a simular setup that i copied.
true. no easy scientific calculations with a built in safety factor came to mind to figure this out. My theory was the the boolits will penetrate to maximium depth in the balistics gel, by changing the medium over to the clay/dirt with the same given thickness you are "unscientificly" incorporating a safety factor into the design.

[Scrounger]

Sounds like a great idea, LLoyd. Can you post some photos? Only change I would consider is to use a smaller catching container and emptying it every month or two, depending on how much you shoot. How thick are your steel plates?

[joeb33050]

A few years back we stopped at a state park on the west coast of Florida-inland some. The bullet impact area was a big concrete structure like a 5 sided box, open toward the shooters. Inside was a big sand pile, big. There was a concrete floor that was ~25 feet beyond the sand piles toward the shooter.
The shooters told us that this kept lead out of the water supply, eliminated all? ricochets and allowed for reclaiming the bullets/coppoer/lead/??
Did I mention that it is big? The roof is ~30 feet high.
When the sand slumps and gets messed up, someone goes in with a machine and heaps the sand up nicely, we were told.
This seems to me like the best solution to the lead pollution and recovery and ricochet problems, whether they exist or not.
In the past I visited Saco Defense, makers of, among other things, M2 50 caliber machine guns. Guns were shot in an indoor range into piled up sand.
I'm thinking that sand may be the best, cheapest, simplest bullet stopper; no rocks to cause ricochets and I think the bullets would sift out.
joe brennan

[Hackleback]

Someone here was using shredded tires as fill- the stuff one can get for mulch. might do a search and see if you can find the threads.

[Lloyd Smale]

when i get to the range ill try to take a picture. I tried smaller containers like 5 gallon galvanized pails but the lead was still going out the elbow with enough force to blow through it. It is amade out of 3/8s plate but im sure 1/4 would work fine as all surfaces the bullets hit are sloped. Ive shot 223 and 308 ball into mine at 25 yards and it just leaves a smear. Not even a dent.
Sounds like a great idea, LLoyd. Can you post some photos? Only change I would consider is to use a smaller catching container and emptying it every month or two, depending on how much you shoot. How thick are your steel plates?

[iron mule]

hey fellas not an expert on this but have been involved in some test on back stop material and i all cases loose sand would stop a bullet in less than half the distance of packed dirt or clay also with loose sand there was less fragments srayed to the side// mule

[schutzen]

Fourarmed; Tires do make a good backstop, but Kentucky rules used tires a hazardous waste (benzine leaches in to the soil) and my neighbor is a KY State EPA Inspector.

Iron Mule; Fill sand is very do-able. How does everyone feel about 6"-9" of cottonwood, followed by two layers of 8 gauge floor plate, followed by 40" of dry sand, followed by a third layer of 8 gauge floor plate? Everyone belive it will stop 45-70, 30-06, 25-06, 243, 223 and maybe 375 H&H? No armor piercing ammo, but some will be FMJ.