Tokarev help, please.

[Kilroy08]

I just got a Tokarev in from Widener's this week. It's a Romanian from 1953 and looks brand new.

Accuracy is fantastic. I tried it with some Prvi Partisan and some hand loads made from modified .223 cases using some .30 carbine 115 grain cast bullets and 3 grains of Red Dot.

My problem is that after forming, trimming, and neck reaming, there's no neck tension to be had. I used a .308 neck reamer in my Forester case trimmer. Bullets will just push right in. The only way I've gotten any sort of tension to keep the bullet is to use a factory crimp die.

How do you guys go about making your 7.62x25 brass? Will a smaller reamer solve my problems?

[dtknowles]

Did you slug the barrel? What diameter are the bullets? Maybe you should try 0.312 diameter bullets if cast and 0.311 if jacketed and you would be good to go. I don't own a Tokarev but that is what I shoot in my CZ 52. If you are going to shoot 0.308 you will need to use a smaller reamer or not ream at all.

Tim

[Kilroy08]

Haven't slugged the barrel yet. Things seem fine, accuracy wise, with the .309 bullets.

Just frustrated with making brass from .223 cases. I think I might have to go smaller on the neck reamer.

[Outpost75]

In my CZ52 I'm using 5.5 grs of Bullseye with 88-grain NEI #82 sized. 311 which cycles reliably and is more accurate than Ball ammo.

[JHeath]

Are you sure you need to neck-ream? Necks too thick to chamber otherwise?

You might be able to outside turn the necks instead. And/or you might need to anneal for reasons explained further below.

I noticed that the base of a .32 S&W/H&R/Fed Mag carbide case-sizing die comes close to the needed outside diameter for the Tok neck. You might try forming/trimming, then expanding with the .308 plug, then neck-sizing with a .32 die and see what inside diameter it gives. But it might be too fat to chamber with a seated bullet.

I have a related project that might be helpful. It's been back-burnered for months but I will try to remember the details.

I am using .313 cast boolits. A cut-down 5.56 case will definitely be too thick to chamber.

I tried forming, then expanding with a .308 plug, then reaming to .311, but it reamed the necks too thin, especially at the neck-shoulder joint. This is because the .308 expander plug is not working on the hard thick brass near the bottom of the newly-formed neck. It leaves the inner neck diameter at the shoulder joint too small, so the .311 reamer is cutting too much brass in that area and leaving a weak ring.

I tried M-die expanding to .311, then outside-turning. But the .311 turning mandrel won't fit deep enough in the case neck because the brass is too thick at the neck-shoulder joint.

For my project, I discovered I need to anneal the cases, expand with the .308 plug, then expand with an M-die to .311, which will give me a nice even .311 inner diameter. THEN I can outside-turn. This will give me the needed inside and outside dimensions. This gives the cleanest results.

I also have a plan to ream the chamber to .340 with a straight-sided reamer, and deepen it a few millimeters so I will have a 7.7x29 Tokarev. I will cut the case necks long, which is better for cast boolits. I think the longer case necks will eject through the port. But I might gently file back the ejector lug because Toks throw brass too far.

I don't mind doing the work. It's like old days in a machine shop before CNC. One step at a time, for 1000 pieces. It goes quickly if you relax and enjoy it.

9mm Win Mag brass would be better for this conversion. The head size is a good match (5.56 is a little small), the wall thickness is good, and the overall length is 29mm to begin with. But I already have the 5.56 brass.

I will need a good brass-catcher.

[Kilroy08]

Thanks JHeath.

I just moved and due to space availability at my place, I chose to keep all my reloading gear and most of my collection at my parents' house. It also doubles as my shooting range. Needless to say, I didn't have as much time on hand to futz around with stuff as I wanted to.

I'll give things a shot with annealing and no inside reaming.

Hopefully Starline gets caught up on things. Any problems using .30 Mauser brass? It has an estimated back in stock date while 7.62x25 doesn't.

[Outpost75]

the .30 Mauser brass needs to be trimmed as its neck is longer.

[BCRider]

I'm a little puzzled about the neck reaming as well. The brass neck needs to be thick enough to fill the gap between the bullet and the chamber walls. So the only reason to ream is if the casings are too thick and cause the cartridges to jam up. If they don't jam up then they are fine.

The reamer fro that kit is marked .308 with reference to the actual caliber? If so that may not be the size of hole it cuts. You should measure the hole to see what it's really cutting. Actually in a way you already have measured it by putting a bullet into the case and having it slip in with no seating tension to speak of. That tells you right there that you've got an issue.

Or it may be the bullets. If you're using .30 carbine bullets the ones I've seen are listed as .308 size. Yet the bullet spec for the 7.62x25 ammo says you need a .310 to .312 bullet. So perhaps you simply need to get fatter bullets to use in the gun with the brass reamed to the .308 size or perhaps not reamed at all.

[JHeath]

The issue (and it seems to be common) is that most Tok bores are big enough to need large-diameter boolits, but the chamber necks are not similarly oversize. After seating a large boolit, the cartridge might not chamber because the case neck has expanded to fit the boolit.

So the neck needs to be thinned by reaming to .311 before using the .311 M die, or some such sequence.

[Charley]

Midway has .30 Mauser and 9mm Mag in stock right now. I've formed 7.62x25 from both, and both are a LOT easier than messing with .223 cases. I've done it, and will only do it again if there is no other alternative.

[jimb16]

I used to make my own cases too. I turned the outside of the necks. I sized my cast boolits .309. I never had any problem with neck tension.