Heating a Hoch

[ColColt]

I guess I didn't have anything better to do tonight so took pics of my new Hoch mould. I found it difficult to heat it on a hot plate due to the top and bottom "obstructions" but managed to heat it enough to produce about 200 bullets today. This is the side of it and you can see how it won't fit on top a hot plate very well.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43545724@N03/9534651266/

It makes a good looking bullet for sure once you get the hang of it being different than most other moulds. This is from the 377310 mould and it throws on average with a 1:20 alloy 315 gr. All bands are .377 and the nose is .366.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43545724@N03/9531875455/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43545724@N03/9534654808/in/photostream/

Plus, it does an admirable job on the base even though a nose pour. My slight fears about the base were unfounded.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43545724@N03/9531877985/in/photostream/

[montana_charlie]

Do you think you could take a picture of that bullet base while held like this ... with the light source high and to the left rear?

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=53265&d=1331866159

[ColColt]

Sure, give me a few minutes.

[ColColt]

How's this? I quit Photobucket because their images were so soft.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43545724@N03/9534982650/

[John Boy]

Colt - yep, that's a typical base on a Hoch mold. I have the 321200 & 321220 breech seating bullet molds for a 32-40. Pretty aren't they? :D

[Dan Cash]

A base like yours is the why of nose pour moulds. I have 2 Hoch moulds in .45, both of which cast flawless bullets if hot enough. Only complaint is that there is sligh dimensional differences between them.

I leave mine on the edge of the pot while the lead melts then use a propane torch with 4 second exposure on each face until the mould cast perfectly. The base will be the prime indicator that your mould is too cold showing wrinkle and round edge. You need hot 700 750 degree melt and hot mould, give 10 seconds cooling cast fast, once you open the mould, don't dawdle.

[ColColt]

Pretty for sure, JB. I think they're will be another in my future. I've just got to figure a better way of pre-heating it. I did leave it on the hot plate and rotated it several times while the alloy was melting and coming up to temp. I ended up casting close to 800 to get good fill out...maybe about 780. I did get wrinkles early on on the bands and base until I increased the temp a bit. The sprue plate opens easy by hand...glove of course. No pounding on this one.:smile:

[country gent]

Those Hoch moulds have a very good reputation for casting good accurate bullets. Maybe a small counter top oven for pre heating. I usually set the mould over the pot while its warming up. Im a big fan of nose pour moulds, If you can find a tin can themould fits in cut it in half and use it as a shield to hold heat in around the mould.

[ColColt]

The small hot plate I have don't have the "eyes" like what's on some ranges. It's black and flat so, the nuts on the bottom keep it from sitting flat and the two countersunk screws on top likewise due to them sitting up a bit for trying to sit it on it's top. I was a little skittish about heating it up with a butane as you have to play the flame evenly and I sure don't want to warp it.

What's a tin can themould?

[MT Chambers]

Because they are difficult to pre-heat, you gotta cast hot and cast fast.

[country gent]

Sorry my typing leaves alot tobe desired. Find a tin can that the mould fits in easily and cut it in half set it over the mould to hold heat in around the mould. Maybe a old coffee can cut to the right hieght with a notch for handles to stick out of. It creates a shield to hold heat in and allows it to disperse around mould 360 degrees.

[ColColt]

Makes a lot of sense I'll try that. Sometimes my typing's not too good either.


Because they are difficult to pre-heat, you gotta cast hot and cast fast.

Yep, I found that out today.

[montana_charlie]

How's this? I quit Photobucket because their images were so soft.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43545724@N03/9534982650/
Thanks.
That angle confirms what I thought I was seeing in the first shot.

But, according to other responders with Hoch experience, 'more heat' will probably correct it.

CM

[ColColt]

What am I looking for that's wrong? The casting session did probably vary from 775-790.

[fgd135]

I use a Hoch-made .422" 370 grain PP mould. It casts flawlessly, once it's heated up. I used to try and preheat it on a separate hot plate, but now just warm it up with 10-15 casts, which go back into the pot eventually. After those, every thing comes out near perfect and very consistent.

[Gunlaker]

Because they are difficult to pre-heat, you gotta cast hot and cast fast.

For sure. I have to run my Hoch moulds faster than any others I own. They do work well when you get used to them, but I wish mine had larger blocks to hold the heat better. I prefer a slower pace :-)

Chris.

[ColColt]

One thing I discovered about this mould were the unfounded fears about it cooling off too much as I replenished the pot. I sat the mould on top of the pot while I waited for the alloy to melt and come up to temperature and started back casting. After a few bullets it started dropping great ones so apparently it didn't cool off as much as I thought it would. Another attribute this mould has over others I have is the fact you have to look very close to see a parting line where the two halves meet. Most others I have there's no problem seeing that but with the Hoch you almost have to take a magnifying glass to see it.

[montana_charlie]

What am I looking for that's wrong?
You get to choose the 'quality' which matches your need.
But, if you are asking for imperfections to be pointed out, I made this ...

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/HochBase_zps30cea4eb.jpg

If you run your finger over a base corner and it feels sweet ... smooth and silky ... it is a rounded corner.
A gas check has a rounded corner, but it is uniform all around it's circumference.
A lead bullet can't be controlled that way, so the only gurauntee of uniformity is to have it sharp all the way around.

A sharp corner feels sharp and unpleasant ... and it doesn't reflect light.

CM

[ColColt]

Excellent explanation, thanks. I just arbitrarily picked a bullet out of about 150-200 for that photo. I'll look closely at the rest and crank up the heat a bit more next time.

[bigted]

the main problem with nose pour molds is the heat required on the bottom plate. the bottom plate has to be heated as hot or hotter then the mold to cast perfect boolits.

I have an RCBS nose pour that has very thick top and bottom plates and sometimes it is a bugger to get both top and bottom plates up to temp so as to throw good boolits. to further add to the heat problem is the 'plug' in the base that makes the hollow base boolits from this particular mold.

I have an old 20 lbs Lee pot that used to be a bottom pour that I got fed up with and made it into my mold heater and this werks very well for an even heat on all parts of the mold. the Lee pot is so en-expensive that you should be able to land one for cheap enough that all your mold heating problems will go away....and do so safely with knowledge that the heat is even from all sides and bottom.

I have iron molds ... and brass molds ... and aluminum molds and this system werks well for all. I just de-oil the mold and plop it into the Lee pot ...which is large enough to admit any mold and handle set I have ... at the same time I begin the melt for my lead. it werks well and sometimes I have to open the mold for a couple minutes to allow it to cool down to cast perfect boolits but hardly do I ever have to cast and throw em back to heat the mold thru ... unless I have not installed the mold n handles when I started the melt to warming up.

I also take the other molds that I want to cast boolits from and as soon as I remove the first mold I install the next mold I am going to want to mold boolits with so when im done with the first mold ... I just remove the hot one from the Lee heater and am set to continue casting.

when I have to add lead to the melt and need to wait to bring the temp up with the new addition I put the mould back into the Lee heater to stay ready for when the lead is up to temp and ready to cast mo boolits.

that's my system and it works very well for me and has done so for a couple years now. my outside temp varies from 70 or 80 in summer and sometimes -20 or -30 in winter when I get the opportunity to cast and this system does its job every time I desire to cast some boolits. I cast outside under my lean-to as I do not have an indoor area in the cabin yet to install a fan ...which would remove the warm air from inside in winter... so I just bundle up in winter and go out and go to it. all is well in wonder land.

[ColColt]

You're right about the thickness of the bottom plate. It's about .170" thick as is the top plate and that large nearly 5/8" spacer that connects the two plates has to heat up as well. The worse mould I ever cast with was a 510 gr mini ball mould with the bottom cherry. It had to be as hot as the mould or you'd get wrinkles and voids. Using pure lead as was needed it took a long time to get just one right. I abandoned that idea and just bought them when needed.

I can't fathom -30 degrees. I'd freeze to death quickly being on blood thinners. There's not enough coats to keep me warm in that climate.

[bigted]

well when you live in paradise then when the climate warms up to -30 its time to cast and get back outside for fun n games in the snow...LOL.

you cant tell who is who in these cooler temp's here as the bundle may just be anybody and male or female. BUT when the ice melts in spring time WHA HOO!!! the girls can be separated from the boys ... you never seen such nice looking women then from the spring time warm-up and the resultant peeling of the heavy winter clothing.

[ColColt]

Not my kind of weather. I like to see legs all during the year!:-P

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Several years ago I bought two hoch bullet molds and the one I had high hopes for has yet to produce a good bollet. I had a really good mold that was marked 321, without casting with that mold I sold it to Buckshot thinking I wouldn't need it since I bought the Hoch that is also marked 321. It was some time before I tried the Hoch and it was a big disappointment. I have tried several times and the bullets always look more like the Pillsbury doughboy than a bullet. The other Hoch mold I bought at the same time cast good bullets the first time I tried even if it is a strange looking thing and a gas check to boot. Why would anyone have Hoch build a nose pour gas check mold? I thought about selling it until I shot a group with it in my 30-30 Ruger #1.

[RMulhern]

Stick your mould DIRECTLY into the blaze off a propane stovetop for about 2 1/2 to 3 minutes and when you take it out of the flame.....hold it up about 4" from your cheek and if you can feel the heat radiating to your skin.....go start casting! You'll get good bullets! Don't dilly/dally and phart around...cast!

[bigted]

Several years ago I bought two hoch bullet molds and the one I had high hopes for has yet to produce a good bollet. I had a really good mold that was marked 321, without casting with that mold I sold it to Buckshot thinking I wouldn't need it since I bought the Hoch that is also marked 321. It was some time before I tried the Hoch and it was a big disappointment. I have tried several times and the bullets always look more like the Pillsbury doughboy than a bullet. The other Hoch mold I bought at the same time cast good bullets the first time I tried even if it is a strange looking thing and a gas check to boot. Why would anyone have Hoch build a nose pour gas check mold? I thought about selling it until I shot a group with it in my 30-30 Ruger #1.

so here again is the trick to getting any mold to cast good boolits ... HEAT >>> HEAT >>> HEAT. those flat chunks of metal on the top or bottom or both have to be piping hot. as Mr. Rick explains ... "Don't dilly/dally and phart around" ... just cast and keep those plates full of lead and nice n hot. you will need the melt hot as well but it be imperative to get and keep those plates hot for good fill out of all portions of the boolit.

might also smoke the mold with a candle or wood match's but the heat is the most impotent portion of the equation.

[Greg B.]

I use an old two burner Coleman white gas stove with a cast iron pot to smelt and ladel pour boolits. The gas for the hot burner is opened up all the way to melt the lead. For iron moulds the second burner is put on about as low as it will go and the mould is placed over it. By the time the lead is ready to go the mould is hot enough. The advantage of this is that it probably would accomodate a Hoch mould ( I do not own one) as the grilling surface consists of crossed steel rods so the bolt heads would not hold the mould away ftom the heat. My .02 cents worth.