Uniwad/0.662" RB Range Results

[longbow]

I got out to the range last weekend and did some shooting with Uniwads that Hogtamer sent to me. Thank you Hogtamer! It is always fun to try something different.

So, I went to load and found that my new 0.678" round balls were too big ~ those Uniwads have thick petals. Fortunately, I also have 0.662" balls and they were a perfect fit!

The load:

- hulls = Fiocchi 2 3/4" low base hulls
- primer = Win 209
- powder = 27 grs. Unique
- fiber wad to tak eup space
- wad = Uniwad with a scoop of COW under the crush section
- 0.662" round ball
- roll crimp

Recoil was fairly light ~ this load was based on a recipe for 0.690" RB.

Accuracy was not great though most of the balls fell into a group of about 8" x 5" at 50 yards with two wild fliers... and while I would swear all the balls hit the paper, there are only 10 holes and 12 shots fired (I have had a couple of really large fish get away two).

Photos attached.

Recovered wads looked quite good but crush sections ranged from pretty good to YIKES!

I used a scoop of COW under the crush section to keep the balls from setting back at ignition and having the petals get mangled opening the crimp. That appears to have worked as all wads were in good condition.

Since the wads look good, I will load some more but leave out the crush section and use nitro card wads and COW to set ball height. I suspect that will produce better accuracy.

I didn't shoot many balls but did shoot quite a few .303's with the new Mihec 316410 with great results. Next time I will concentrate more on 12 ga. balls in a variety of wads but I think these Uniwads will do well with the 0.662" round balls. I like to start out with not too many rounds loaded until I know what is going on then load accordingly. Next time I will load up 25 or so and go to town! That's about all the recoil I can handle at once.

Not the best results but a good day at the range (what day isn't?) and a learning experience. Next time I am betting these wads do well with a few adjustments.

Thanks again Hogtamer!

Longbow

[OnHoPr]

What type of sites do you have on the shotgun that you have been doing all the testing with? It's been a while since I seen the Uniwad, they worked real good with shot.

[longbow]

This is an old single shot I cut down and put rifle sights on. With good fitting loads it will group well. Best loads I have shot run around 3" to 4" at 50 yards.

I think these wads will do the job but that crush section failed so probably threw things off a bit. Better support for the ball should fix that up.

That dot is a little over 3" diameter to give an idea of group size.

Longbow

[OnHoPr]

I have seen a bit of testing for the RB here and there and it has sparked my interest, but I'm not sure when I'll get to fiddled with it. Have you ever thought about making some type of form of some sort to make a actual base support for the ball. Something like the hot glue that you use or a consistency of the like, maybe an epoxy, wood glue, putty, glazing compound, ???? that would fit inside the cup or even the full bore style. Something like, make a base form of desired diameter then input whatever substance and then a round ball type of radius application on top to form maybe with a release agent and let set.

[longbow]

Yup! I have done a lot of fiddling over the years.

I started out about 40 years ago with a cylinder bore slug gun, a Lyman 0.690" RB mould and no knowledge whatsoever. They didn't shoot very well.

I tried patching them, wrapping them and eventually found thin petal shotcups they fit but I never got decent accuracy. Then I discovered the BPI AQ slug which is essentially a bore size ball with an attached skirt. Factory AQ's shot very well from my gun. So, I made up forms and cast skirts onto 0.690" round balls. That sort of worked but consistency was an issue. They were way better than naked balls and gave quite decent accuracy but I got quite few wild fliers too.

I tried hollow base slugs of several designs with poor to mediocre results. Again, I tried different fits, styles, skirt thicknesses, attached wads, you name it ~ some did okay but none stellar and oddly not as well as factory Foster slugs.

I had made up a protoype mould for Greg Sappington in his TC solid design and it was considerably under bore size as it was intended for thick petal shotcups. I decided that old Wilhelm Brenneke had one of the best designs going so made up forms to cast hot melt glue skirts onto those solid slugs then wrapped them to fit standard shotcups. Those shot the best of any home cast/loaded slugs I had tried.

I have since worked on that design and am having good results but still have testing to do. I increased diameter so they are a snug fit in standard shotcups and cast on hot melt glue skirts. They are running about the same accuracy as my good round ball loads giving 3" to 4" at 50 yards. I have to test at 100 yards yet to see if accuracy holds up at longer range. If so then they should give 6" to 8" groups at 100 yards. I would be happy with that.

Round ball loads can be quite accurate to 60 - 70 yards but groups open up fairly quickly much farther than 50 - 60 yards. I have had some pretty nice 100 yard round ball groups but also experience frequent fliers so not dependable. The attached wad slug SHOULD do better at longer range. We will see.

One problem with attached wads on round balls is the curved surface. Even with a wood screw run in as an anchor, I have had hot melt glue shear at the ball surface due to compression and "squish" at firing. I like round balls but I think a flat based slug with attached wad is the way to go for a longer range slug.

For ease of casting and loading, it is hard to beat a round ball in a shotup for 50 - 60 yard shooting. I use a nitro card wad in the bottom of the shotcup and a scoop of COW under the ball for support so the shotcup doesn't extrude around the ball. It works for me.

So that's my experience in a nutshell and what has worked for me.

Longbow

[W.R.Buchanan]

The beauty of this site is that I can go on here and read up on 40+ years of experience and go directly to an acceptable result in one trip.

I am going to load up some of my newly cast .662 RB's today in standard WAA12 wads with 18.3 gr of Green Dot and a 1/4" thick felt wad. This is just my normal trap load with a different payload.

This is a result of me using other peoples research and testing here, and my thanks to XS650 and Longbow and others who have been down this road.

I started out needing a soft shooting solid projectile 12 ga. load for shooting 3 gun matches. If I can get 6" at 50 yds. out of these balls I be happy as a clam.

In Three Gun all you have to do is hit a steel target or poke a hole in some paper as long as the ball makes it 50 yards I'm good to go.

I didn't have any of these loaded last weekend and naively shot two Federal Maximum 1oz Slugs at 1610 fps!

I paid dearly for this error in judgment!

I have an appointment with my Chiropractor tomorrow at 1PM to put my right shoulder and the rib that got knocked out of position, back in place. This will cost me and entire afternoon and $60 + fuel and a 100 mile one way trip to LA.

I have 4 ten round boxes of these slugs that I got on sale at Walmart a few years ago if anyone is interested in them. One box is missing two rounds.

Randy

[longbow]

Randy:

A suggestion for those 0.662" balls.

You will probably find that the 0.662" ball is a bit small and has rattle room in the wad. I have used both paper and cloth "patching" like for a muzzleloader but into the hull or paper "tube" wraps inside the wad to take up that slack. That worked better for me than the loose ball. Cloth patching with ripped squares is quick and easy.

You may find that with just the felt, your wad extrudes around the curved surface of the ball. Recovered wads will tell you... along with accuracy.

If wads are damaged and showing signs of wrapping around the ball and you don't have nitro card wads, try using some COW, cornmeal or GRITS (had to include that for Southern folks like Hogtamer!) under the ball. I think it packs to form a nice seat for the ball and also supports the shotcup.

Have fun!

Longbow

[cpileri]

Or Malt-o-meal! ;)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Longbow: the reason I went with the .662 balls is because with the WAA12 wads, and 1/4" felt, the diameter measures .725 around the ball when it is in the shot cup.

Bore on this gun is .730 so it couldn't get much closer to a perfect fit.

After loading some they were a nice slip fit when the wad was in the hull. No rattle whatsoever.

I think they are going to be just fine.. I hope. I will know in a week or so whenever I can get up there to shoot some.

Randy

[longbow]

Okay Randy that sounds like you have a good fit then.

I like a slightly looser fit than what Ajay recommends ~ he says 6 to 10 lbs. push. It may be the throat angle, roughness or just the likes of the gun but I find that an almost fall through fit works best for me.

The petals of the wads I have are all a little thin for the 0.662" ball so I had a bit much clearance and some rattle room. With good fit they shoot very well for me so I think you will do just fine.

Even though I am still working on long range slugs for smoothbore I still like the good 'ol round ball. They are easy to cast, easy to load and they are good and accurate to at least 50 yards.

Have fun and good shooting!

Longbow

[OnHoPr]

Have any of you ball shooters (mid-low .660's) thought of the bottom of a BPI multimetal wad for a ball carrier. The inside of the base of the cup is ROUND and looks like it would hold a ball very nicely. You would have to trim a larger portion of the petals off but it looks like it would be a good ball carrier. Obviously you would still need a gas seal and felts, hard cards, and nitro cards. The petals are .035 (a couple a .032 and .033) and towards the bottom are really really tough at the radius. I am not sure if the cup is restricted to small for a ball of that nature though. It looks like it would be a good carrier for a ball in a rifled barrel but could possibly be an idea for the smooth bore. I don't think the bottom of the wad could lose its integrity around the ball as a flat inside cup would.

[Hogtamer]

That wad is too small for a ball that size. A 20 ga. Shot cup is a tight fit using 2 .570 balls.

[OnHoPr]

Could you reform it slightly with a heated piece of round stock with a round end of the specific size? The reforming wouldn't be much to slightly melt the cup for whatever diameter. It's pretty solid in that section of the wad.

[longbow]

You lost me a bit (not too hard).

If I understand right, you are asking about an inverted gas seal as a ball carrier and while I haven't done it, others have had success with it ~ but if petals are 0.035" thick then the wad itself is about the right size for 0.660"+ round ball so why bother?

Greg Sappington told me he has an article from many years ago about using 0.662" ball in a "steel" shotcup with thick petals in a rifled barrel with pretty impressive velocity (1600 FPS IIRC) and good accuracy.

It is obviously easier to load a round ball into a factory shotcup than to cut them up to get inverted gas seals. I think the inverted gas seal idea is well suited to 0.690" round balls or other size balls that do not fit available shotcups well. No reason it shouldn't work with any ball size as long as it cradles the ball and you have a good wad column to carry it.

[Hogtamer]

Duh, me! Inverted may work, gotcha now.