I found the .45 ACP load for my Reising!

[NoZombies]

After dealing for a few months with reliability issues (It's a reising, I expected as much) And replacing all of the major springs in the gun, and the firing pin. I have found reliability with the M50.

The Reising M50 was tested by the Army prior to WWII, and found to be less reliable than the Thompson SMG. It was however found to be more accurate. When the marines needed .45 caliber SMG's early in 1942, there were no Thompsons available, so they ordered Reisings.

In the pacific theatre, the Reising was found to be problematic. Many theories exist to exactly what the main problem was, but most who are well versed in the history of the gun conclude that the main issue was that the reisings were hand fitted at the factory. The marines had a tendency to clean their guns in groups, so a pile of bolts and other parts would all be dumped in a pot of boiling water, and then pulled out and dried (this was done because the corrosive ammo and high humidity would mean that without regular cleaning, the guns could rust up badly fairly quickly). After the pile of bolts was dry, the marines would re-assemble the guns, without regard to which bolt went to what gun. Quickly the reising earned a reputation of being unreliable.

As much as the Reising was unreliable in the conditions it was fielded in during the second world war, for a shooter today, who is unlikely to be swapping bolts with other guns or using corrosive ammo in jungle type conditions, once the reising is set up properly, it can be a great gun to shoot.

My Reising came to me with a scope rail already installed. I mounted a vintage Weaver K-2.5 Scope (which many people think looks ridiculous on a SMG, but I think it works) and as I've already mentioned, I replaced the springs and firing pin.

http://nozombies.com/reising.JPG

I spent some time developing a load that would work reliably in my gun without flinging the brass into the next county.

The load I came up with that runs 100% in my gun:
Ideal/Lyman 452488 SWC cast from 50/50 range lead and WW. Lubed with RandyRat's Tac-1
3.1 Grains Titegroup powder
Mixed Brass
Tula/Wolf LP Magnum primer
Loaded to 1.20" OAL Taper crimped to .471

I'm not sure how often a write-up and range report for an SMG has a target picture, but this group is 10 rounds fired in semi auto at 25 yards with the forend supported on a sandbag:
http://nozombies.com/reis-target.JPG

I forgot to get a photo of the Full Auto grouping, but as one might imagine, it opened up quite a bit. But at 25 yards standing the group was still all in a 6" circle. I normally shoot the gun at steel plates, so I don't get very many "groupings" to compare.

And because SMG's are a very efficient means of turning money into noise, here's a video of the Reising in action:


http://youtu.be/5L4jXYJDi9c

All in all, I am very pleased with the Reising, and with the load that I've found for it. If you have the opportunity to try one, I recommend it!

[doctorggg]

I for one am pleased to read this. Great info! Thanks for sharing.

[Outpost75]

I like the 2.5x Weaver on the M50.

FYI in the M1A1 Thompson here we have been using the Saeco #954 230-grain FN cowboy slug with 4.5 grains of Bullseye. Runs like a pony trotting. Not as accurate as your Reising, but fun to shoot.

[Artful]

Good write up and nice video. Nothing wrong with your scoped look unless you have to compete in unlimited class and don't want too.

I put a Red Dot on my UZI because I can't see Iron's like I used too.

[NoZombies]

Thanks for the comments guys! For about a month, I was wondering if I had made a big mistake. I knew the Reising's reputation going in, but being a consummate tinkerer, I proceeded with aplomb. When all of the other stuff I tried didn't work, I eventually did the thing most people would have started with; New springs and updated firing pin. Low and behold, that's what I needed all along. [smilie=b:


I put a Red Dot on my UZI because I can't see Iron's like I used too.

The Weaver was a fluke. I was looking through my box of random optics for an appropriate red dot when I saw the Weaver, and thought "why not" I mounted it, liked the look, and found out it wasn't hard to keep on target even with the magnification.

One of these days I'll make it to a sub-gun competition, but there's no telling when I'll have the time, I think the closest one is 5 hours drive away, and would require a hotel stay the night before since it starts at 8am.

[Scharfschuetze]

An interesting post NoZombies. It looks like you're set to engage any unsupervised zombies that may wonder into your neck of the woods.

I've only shot the Reising once and that was with jacketed bullets. I found it to be a fun SMG and it was certainly more reliable than its reputation.

In the Thompson (M1 with a stick mag and the 1927 with drum magazine) I've shot my RCBS 225gr RN at service velocities and my RCBS 200 SWC boolits at 800 fps through them with great success. The Thompsons ate those cast bullets up as if they had been on a too stringent diet. I was surprised that the Thompsons shot the SWCs so well, but they have a long feed ramp into the chamber and that may be one of the reasons why the Thompson had the better reputation for reliability.

[NoZombies]

In the Thompson (M1 with a stick mag and the 1927 with drum magazine) I've shot my RCBS 225gr RN at service velocities and my RCBS 200 SWC boolits at 800 fps through them with great success. The Thompsons ate those cast bullets up as if they had been on a too stringent diet. I was surprised that the Thompsons shot the SWCs so well, but they have a long feed ramp into the chamber and that may be one of the reasons why the Thompson had the better reputation for reliability.

That may be. I suspect the open bolt design of the Thompson helped with that as well. The Reising with it's closed bolt is lighter, but because of the delayed recoil action, it has tighter tolerances, and when it gets dirty, it gets to be problematic. I've sent about 50 factory jacketed rounds down range through the Reising, but accuracy was less impressive. I've found that the H&G #68 feeds very well through the gun as well, but I haven't worked up a load for it yet. Lee's 200 grain round flat doesn't feed worth a hoot though.

[Boz330]

Back in the late 80s or early 90s the indoor range that I shot leagues at had a Reising for sale and I demoed it with my IPSC loads which was the H&G 68 and it gobbled them up like there was no tomorrow and was accurate at 25 yrd the max range length. Price then was $350 plus the tax stamp, wish I had gotten it.
Where did you find yours? I still wouldn't mind having one if it wasn't too ridiculous. I asked at the local Class 3 dealer but never heard anything back.

Bob

[Artful]

Back in the late 80s or early 90s the indoor range that I shot leagues at had a Reising for sale and I demoed it with my IPSC loads which was the H&G 68 and it gobbled them up like there was no tomorrow and was accurate at 25 yrd the max range length. Price then was $350 plus the tax stamp, wish I had gotten it.
Where did you find yours? I still wouldn't mind having one if it wasn't too ridiculous. I asked at the local Class 3 dealer but never heard anything back.

Bob

What's too ridiculous - considering that the .Gov is not allowing anymore to be made for civilian sales after 1986
(Thank Pres. Ronald Wilson Reagan and Rep. William J. Hughes (D-N.J.)) and you want a historical piece?

http://www.autoweapons.com/products/products.html - $5,295 + $200 stamp

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=359719197 $6k auction start with $6.5K buy now

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=22784&query=retrieval - $4,999 + tax

http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/index.cgi?db=nfafirearms&website=&language=&session_key=&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=long&db_id=22737&query=retrieval - $8,000 + tax

http://www.nfasales.com/ - Model 55 with jump case - call for pricing

[NoZombies]

Mine came from an estate in Oregon. I got a deal on it, and paid less than $4K for it last year. They come for sale from time to time.

Check the Sturm boards: http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi

Or subguns: Subguns.com classifieds (http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/?db=nfafirearms&category=All+Items+in+this+Category&query=category&search_and_display_db_button=on&results_format=headlines&website=&language=&session_key=)

Keep an eye on gun broker etc.

I was actively looking, and it took me months to find the deal I did. You might get lucky and get another "good" deal.

As for the H&G #68, I plan to start working on a load for that in the next few weeks if I have the time. Right now office and family commitments have me pretty tied up, but I hope to get some breathing room next week. I don't know what I'm hoping to accomplish, the load I have now does everything I need or want, but the bevel base on the #68 does make loading go just a hair faster.... :Fire:

[JeffinNZ]

That video is wonderful. Great wallaby gun!!!!!

[Boz330]

That video is wonderful. Great wallaby gun!!!!!

You think it is enough GUN??????????????????????? Wallabys are like the size of a jackrabbit, aren't they?

I found a couple of those sites after I posted. Pretty pricey considering the military probably paid less than $20 for them. They told us when I was in AIT that the grease guns we were shooting were $7.50 during WWII and the Reising was head and shoulders above that.
I believe the old man had a Reising for awhile on Guadalcanal, till he managed to get a Thompson, both were pick ups since he was in a heavy weapons platoon.

Bob

[NoZombies]

I found a couple of those sites after I posted. Pretty pricey considering the military probably paid less than $20 for them. They told us when I was in AIT that the grease guns we were shooting were $7.50 during WWII and the Reising was head and shoulders above that.

Well, the Reising cost the Marines $62 per unit in 1942 when they were ordered. That was less than a third of what the Thompson 1928 was costing at $200 per. And the Reising was available. Thompson production was all earmarked for previously placed contracts.

If it wasn't for the hughes amendment to the FOPA '86, Reisings would probably be worth about $500 or so, plus the tax. But since the supply of registered MG's was cut off, everything that has papers is increasing in price simply because of the desparity between supply and demand.

In 1980 there was a group in GA making "drop in auto sears" or DIAS for the AR-15. they cost the company 35 cents a piece to make. After the ATF ruled in 1981 that they were machine gun conversion devices, only a few of them were registered. The ones that were registered are now worth in the neighborhood of $15,000. Having an unregistered one, as well as an AR-15 is worth about 10 years in prison and up to $100,000 in fines.

I wish the hughes amendment could be reversed, but until that happens, anything that has a "fun switch" will be ridiculously expensive.

[NoZombies]

That video is wonderful. Great wallaby gun!!!!!

Thanks! I want to hunt hogs with this one at some point.

[NoZombies]

Well, I've put over 2K of the loads down range with the Reising now, and I can say that I'm still just as happy as I was when I made the first post.

I even had the opportunity to shoot the gun at night recently, and was impressed by the extremely low flash of the rounds. As far as things go, the gun is also fairly quiet for a .45. I think the pressure peak is early enough that by the time the bullet leaves the barrel the gases have slowed a lot.


http://youtu.be/fZExCYahKzM

I'm hoping to play with a H&G 68 clone in the gun in the next few weeks. I know they feed alright, I'm hoping I can find a load that the gun likes as much as it likes the 452488 load.

[millerwb]

Sweet gun.

[NoZombies]

Sweet gun.

Thanks! I like it!

[Artful]

If it wasn't for the hughes amendment to the FOPA '86, Reisings would probably be worth about $500 or so, plus the tax. But since the supply of registered MG's was cut off, everything that has papers is increasing in price simply because of the desparity between supply and demand.
...
I wish the hughes amendment could be reversed, but until that happens, anything that has a "fun switch" will be ridiculously expensive.

Considering that those of us that own NFA items seem to be the most law abiding portion of the gun owning group, you'd think they would figure out they should want more gun owners doing the NFA purchase route. And it will take some serious change to reverse any laws they have put on the books - look how bad it got before they allowed drinking after the Eighteenth Amendment to the Constitution, and the Volstead Act in 1919 - almost the whole population must have been criminals before Prohibition ended with the ratification of the Twenty-first Amendment, which repealed the Eighteenth Amendment, on December 5, 1933.

[buckwheatpaul]

I have shot a number of Reisings over the years....I really like them....they were as accurate as you show on your target.....they are just toooo expensive to own....I really enjoyed what you have done as well as the walk down memory lane......like the scope as well....thank you!

[NoZombies]

This week I'm hoping to try another load using an H&G #68 clone. I'll report back on how it does.

[NoZombies]

I have shot a number of Reisings over the years....I really like them....they were as accurate as you show on your target.....they are just toooo expensive to own....I really enjoyed what you have done as well as the walk down memory lane......like the scope as well....thank you!

Thanks for the comments, If you ever make it to N. FL, look me up and we'll go out to the range!

Well, my experiments with the H&G #68 and the Lee clone have been somewhat underwhelming.

Loaded to 1.26" over 3.1 gn TG they cycle the gun reliably, but don't feed as well as the 452488. Don't get me wrong, they aren't terrible, but the 452488 feeds 100% from all of my magazines.

I think I'll be sticking to my 452488 loads; they use a little less lead, feed 100% and are super accurate.

The Reising, with proper stance is also very easy to control and keep on target (Watch how little the muzzle moves in a 20rd mag dump):


http://youtu.be/c2hDPzb7M6Y

[smkummer]

You know that Ken Christie markets a 30 rd. magazine for the reising. I actually fit 32 rounds in mine for competition. It will maybe add 2/3 of a second to your enjoyment. Some also makes a 50 round drum magazine for a reising also.

[NoZombies]

You know that Ken Christie markets a 30 rd. magazine for the reising. I actually fit 32 rounds in mine for competition. It will maybe add 2/3 of a second to your enjoyment. Some also makes a 50 round drum magazine for a reising also.

Yessir, I have several of the christie's mags. I had to make some adjustments to one of them, but they all work just fine now. I had a chance at one of the 50 rd drums a while back, but I've never heard anything about how well they work, and I'd hate to spend that money and have a lemon.

How are you doing in competition with the Reising? The closest subgun match is most of a days drive away from here, so I haven't been able to compete with mine yet, but I do enjoy shooting it!

[35remington]

I find it interesting that a machinegun ostensibly designed for ball ammo feeds the rather short OAL 452488 reliably. Strangely, my 1911's supposedly feed long rounds better as well but I've had good luck with the 452488 loaded to 1.195" OAL (longer than most load this bullet) and through GI magazines, no less. Which shouldn't do this well, but they do.

Due to its essential duplication of the ball feeding profile, the HG 68 should do better than it does through your gun.

How does a cast RN like the 452374 or Lee 230 2R or HG 34 feed? These are all nominally 230 grain ball duplicates in all lead persuasion. What does the feed path/ramp of the gun look like, anyway? Just curious.

[NoZombies]

I find it interesting that a machinegun ostensibly designed for ball ammo feeds the rather short OAL 452488 reliably. Strangely, my 1911's supposedly feed long rounds better as well but I've had good luck with the 452488 loaded to 1.195" OAL (longer than most load this bullet) and through GI magazines, no less. Which shouldn't do this well, but they do.

Due to its essential duplication of the ball feeding profile, the HG 68 should do better than it does through your gun.

How does a cast RN like the 452374 or Lee 230 2R or HG 34 feed? These are all nominally 230 grain ball duplicates in all lead persuasion. What does the feed path/ramp of the gun look like, anyway? Just curious.

I was also surprised by the slightly less reliable feed of the H&G 68 and clones (I tried both and both were about 98% good, but that 2% makes a difference) I'll have to see if I can get a photo of the feed ramp on one of my spare barrels, it's pretty decent. I assume the big difference comes from the way the magazine presents the round to the feed ramp as compared to a 1911 etc.

The 452374 does well, probably as well as the 452488, but since the 452374 is a single cavity HP, and the 452488 is a 4 cavity, I cast a lot more of the 488. I've got a 4 cavity of the 374, but need to send it out for a little work before I can use it. A few years ago, I cast and loaded about 500 of the 374 HP's and I sent about 200 of them downrange the first time I took the reising out. They ran flawlessly, but require too much time invested to send them downrange 20 or 30 at a time!

[smkummer]

How are you doing in competition with the Reising? I do OK with it if I don't get penalties for items such as having one foot outside the box etc.. I have placed in the money a couple of times but at events such as Knob Creek which often one can go through 8 magazines, 45 slows you down because of hauling all the weight of the magazines. You have to master the art of flicking a reising's trigger. That is placing the tip of your finger pad on the trigger so as to flick it and you can single fire a reising when the selector is in FA. All of the subgun matches that I shoot require the gun to be on full auto but 75% of the time or more if you single fire your time will be slower. Congrats on a great gun. I shoot Lee's 452-230 TL bullet with 4.5 grains 700X. I have a spare reising barrel that I use as a gauge to drop the loaded cartridge in before a match.

[NoZombies]

I've got a spare barrel as well that I use as a no go gauge for trying new loads.

Any idea the kind of velocity you're seeing from the load you're using? I've been very happy with my light loads. They function perfectly, and they make the gun very controllable.

[Artful]

http://www.imrpowder.com/pdf/IMR_handgun.pdf

.45 A.C.P.
REM. CASE; REM. 2 1/2 PR
REM. 230 GR. LEAD; .451" DIA.;
5.0" PISTOL BBL.; 1.270" C.O.L.
“Hi-Skor”
700-X 4.7 775 17700

.45 A.C.P.
REM. CASE; REM. 2 1/2 PR
REM. 230 GR. MC; .450" DIA.;
5.0" PISTOL BBL.; 1.260" C.O.L.
“Hi-Skor”
700-X 5.0 770 17700