10 m/m or 40 s&w

[primersp]

hello
what is the best choose for shooting cast bullet in pistol 10m/m or 40 s&w?

just use for paper punching

i think here i could only find an glock in 10 m/m.

thanks

[Lloyd Smale]

i use and enjoy both with cast bullets. Only real downside to 10mm is its harder to find brass and its more expensive when you do.

[HATCH]

I would look and see what the supplies look like.
10mm is a great round but to be honest its time has passed. Don't get me wrong there is a huge following for 10mm but you will not see any government agency using 10mm besides maybe the FBI.
I would go with 40 S&W is it was me and I only had one choice.

[seagiant]

I would look and see what the supplies look like.
10mm is a great round but to be honest its time has passed. Don't get me wrong there is a huge following for 10mm but you will not see any government agency using 10mm besides maybe the FBI.
I would go with 40 S&W is it was me and I only had one choice.

Hi,
Hatch is right,but I hate the 40 and LOVE the 10MM! Go figure!

[WilliamDahl]

With the Glock, you can shoot .40SW in it without even a barrel change if you so desire because it headspaces on the extractor. Or if you so desire, a barrel swap is not that expensive either and you can swap to .40SW and .357SIG without needing new mags. You can also convert it to 9mm, but you will need new mags (maybe a lighter spring also).

Brass availability is not really an issue since with the Glock, you can just load the .40SW brass to 10mm lengths and at 10mm power.

[HATCH]

Hi,
Hatch is right,but I hate the 40 and LOVE the 10MM! Go figure!

I love them both.
The 10mm for the pure power
I have a 1066, 1006, and a 610 in 10mm.
40 cal for the fact that it is so plentiful. You can always find it somewhere and its a bonus that it uses the same boolit as the 10mm
I have a model 22 and model 23 in 40 cal.

[scattershot]

Just for paper, the .40 S&W would be my choice, hands down. If you reload, brass is cheap and plentiful, and if you don't, ammo is readily available.

You don't need the extra power or expense of the 10mm.

Just my .02.

[Oreo]

Consider frame / grip size also. The 10mm glocks are considerably larger then the 40sw glocks.

[Oreo]

Brass availability is not really an issue since with the Glock, you can just load the .40SW brass to 10mm lengths and at 10mm power.

This statement leaves an awful lot unsaid. Its not that simple, its not a replacement for real 10mm brass, and should be exhaustively researched before attempting. This can be dangerous if done incorrectly.

[gofastman]

With the Glock, you can shoot .40SW in it without even a barrel change if you so desire because it headspaces on the extractor.

This is true, but please read and re-read the underlined part. this is not a safe thing to do in other guns

[primersp]

HATCH
i have an 5906 ,and i like the 3gen ,but here find a 1006
i never have an glock ,but in pastic gun it's was my choice
i cast ,no problem for the bullets ,brass are in the same range of price
but the 40 is more commun ,the 10 is very marginal no issue for one fire brass ,i have never see one at range
i have shoot with an fellow's glock subcompact in 357 sig the most desagreable
wasn't the recoil ,but the muzzle blast.
a add on a forum ,a guy sold one ,new fired 25 rounds, with the half box of ammo,sure he don't like the recoil.

thanks for yours answers.

[sargenv]

If you get lucky, you might find a 610 around now and then.. with moon clips you can shoot the 10 mm or 40 S&W in it with no issues.. if you want, you could even have a gunsmith expand the cylinder to 10 mm magnum.. the Cylinder is very long and could accomodate the 10 mm magnum nicely (It is the same length at the 44 magnum). You can load mouse fart 40's or very hot magnums in the same gun and it will not care one bit.

[Oreo]

The 610 ain't all its cracked up to be. First, the step in the chamber shaves lead when shooting shorter cartridges like the 40sw. It would do it with the 10mm if the cylinder was bored out for 10mm mag. And 10mm mag has almost no load data available at all.

I was going to buy a 610 a few weeks ago. I researched it and came to the conclusion that 10mm is best in semiautos and if I want a revolver I'm going to buy a 44mag.

[HATCH]

I own a 610.
its no different then shooting 38 special out of a 357 mag and i know we all have done that.

i have 10mm mag brass (new starline) but have never had my cylinders bored to shoot it.

Its a n frame gun that's built to last longer then you are.

[WilliamDahl]

This statement leaves an awful lot unsaid. Its not that simple, its not a replacement for real 10mm brass, and should be exhaustively researched before attempting. This can be dangerous if done incorrectly.

If you set the bullet long (i.e. to the same length as a normal 10mm round) and if the bullet you are using is long enough, you can load 10mm loads in .40 brass for the Glock. A bit more of the bullet sticks out, but it still works acceptably. I have not tried it with the maximum 10mm loads like you might find in the Buffalo Bore loadings (1350 fps, 728 ft-lbs with 180gr JHP) (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=114), but I've definitely loaded more than was recommended as a maximum load for .40SW length cartridges.

One thing that you also need to consider when loading hot is that some of the .40 handguns do not fully support the chamber. From what I've read on the Buffalo Bore site (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=116), the Glock does not fully support the chamber in the .40, but it does in the .45ACP, 10mm, 9mm, and .380 models.

Now, if the military would just get rid of their 9mm Berettas and move up to handgun that was 10mm based, there would be a lot more 10mm brass available.

[smkummer]

9mm and 40S&W, are about the only reloadable brass that is left laying around anymore if its left at all. If you shoot 40, then you won't worry about finding all the empties.

[garym1a2]

I think a Glock 20 with a 40 conversion barrel would be the best of both worlds, Cheap practice brass, 10mm power and capability to use small and large primers.

[WilliamDahl]

I think a Glock 20 with a 40 conversion barrel would be the best of both worlds, Cheap practice brass, 10mm power and capability to use small and large primers.

Of course, you can also shoot the Glock 20 with .40 rounds without the conversion barrel since it headspaces on the extractor.

[Lloyd Smale]

was fooling around with my 20 and 23 yesterday and my 20 feeds and shoots 40s loaded to fit my 23 just fine. Load was a midrange load of 5 grains of aa2 and a 180. Felt like a pop gun in the 20 but did run the slide.

[WilliamDahl]

was fooling around with my 20 and 23 yesterday and my 20 feeds and shoots 40s loaded to fit my 23 just fine. Load was a midrange load of 5 grains of aa2 and a 180. Felt like a pop gun in the 20 but did run the slide.

You should be getting slight higher velocities with the .40s in the G20 than in the G23 since the barrel is slightly longer (4.6" in the G20 vs 4.02" in the G23). There also should be slightly less recoil in the G20 since it is slightly heavier (39.14 oz loaded for the G20 vs 31.03 oz for the G23).

Glocl 20 Specs (http://www.glock.com/english/glock20_tech.htm)
Glock 23 Specs (http://www.glock.com/english/glock23_tech.htm)

Now try loading the .40 brass to 10mm length and a 10mm powder charge and firing them in your G20. Works great... Gives you a lot of flexibility when you can't find 10mm brass. Just remember to load to 10mm lengths when you put a 10mm charge in the case, otherwise you are risking overpressure if accidentally fire it in a .40 gun (and possibly even in the 10mm gun). All of this is what makes the Glock 10mm the most versatile 10mm out there.

The G20 gives you the best of both words. You have a gun built for 10mm pressures, but you can fire .40s in it without modification if you need to. Or if you prefer, with a simple barrel swap, you can convert it to a dedicated .40 or .357SIG gun. Or with a barrel and mag swap, you can convert it to a dedicated 9mm gun.

I suspect that it all boils down to whether you like Glocks or not. There are other guns that I like a lot better, but that's just because I'm an old fart and I believe that you dance with the one that brought you to the dance, but I have to admit that the Glock in 10mm is a very versatile choice. Now, if you could take a M1911 platform, make it a bit wider so that it could handle double-stack mags like the Para Ordnance P14-45, and give it an extractor like the Glocks where it headspaces on the extractor, I would definitely prefer that. I've been shooting M1911s for 40+ years -- it's hard to break old habits. I'm not a fan of the trigger safety that the Glock (and some others use), but I do carry one in 10mm these days and have yet to had an AD/ND and shoot myself.

[Lloyd Smale]

william i sure do agree with you. I was allways a glock hater up till about 5 years ago. I bought my first a 23 and developed respect for it and ended up buying a couple more glocks. They will NEVER replace my 1911s though. Ive grown up with a 1911 in my hands and have shot probably a million rounds through them over the years and anymore they just match up with my brain and work automaticaly and i just shoot them better. I agree too that probably the biggest downside to glocks are there triggers. mine have had work done on them but there still a far cry from a masaged 1911 trigger. But ill say this. If **** hit the fan tommarow and i could only grab one gun to run with it would be my 23. I dont think its ever missed a beat and i dont remember the last time ive cleaned it but theres been THOUSANDS of rounds of good old dirty cast bullets through it and about all i do with it is give it a squirt of oil on the rails once in a while. I guess one of these days im going to have to clean it but its gotten to the point that i almost want it to stumble once first. Might be a few more years ;) kind of like comparing a new camero to an old 70 chevelle ls6. The camero gives great performance and all you have to do is add gas and go. The ls6 gives great performance but is a bit finiky and needs a bit of wrench time to keep running at its peak. But which would you rather have when down town crusing the strip?

[Shiloh]

I would go with 40 S&W is it was me and I only had one choice.

+1

Shiloh

[WilliamDahl]

william i sure do agree with you. I was allways a glock hater up till about 5 years ago. I bought my first a 23 and developed respect for it and ended up buying a couple more glocks. They will NEVER replace my 1911s though. Ive grown up with a 1911 in my hands and have shot probably a million rounds through them over the years and anymore they just match up with my brain and work automaticaly and i just shoot them better. I agree too that probably the biggest downside to glocks are there triggers. mine have had work done on them but there still a far cry from a masaged 1911 trigger.

It's not that I ever *hated* the Glocks, just that I wasn't one of the Glock fanboys (who thought that they were the best thing ever and that they could do no wrong). I do not subscribe to the idea that their "trigger safety" is any sort of true safety. If I put my finger on the trigger, pull it, and the gun fires, then it has no safety as far as I'm concerned. I would say that a Glock is slightly less safe than a DA revolver. The reason that I would say that the DA revolver is safer is that the trigger pull is heavier. From an engineering standpoint, I like handguns that have a bit more metal in them than the Glocks do. The Glocks are functional and reliable, but not a piece of engineering art. They work and for some people that is all they want.

[Lloyd Smale]

never was one to worry to much about safetys. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard and no gun will go off. I carried a detonics combat master 1911 for years that was a single action and had no safety whatsoever. Not even a grip safety and never had one bit of problem with it being unsafe.

[WilliamDahl]

never was one to worry to much about safetys. Keep your finger out of the trigger guard and no gun will go off. I carried a detonics combat master 1911 for years that was a single action and had no safety whatsoever. Not even a grip safety and never had one bit of problem with it being unsafe.

From what I understand, the Detonics was intended to be carried with the hammer down and not in Condition 1. Never owned one, but I thought they also had the normal thumb safety. The photos that I see of them on the web make it appear that they have a thumb safety.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_a1lA2SvP5AM/SwBvbnW-uJI/AAAAAAAABj8/gBO1EqnWMXg/s720/detonics_combat_master-0800x0600-0001.jpg

The issue that I have is not so much whether a gun has a safety or not, but rather that Glock considers their trigger to be a safety. A safety is to prevent the gun from firing if you pull the trigger. That does not happen on the Glocks. With a Glock you have to be a bit more careful in your selection of your holster so that the trigger is completely enclosed to minimize the chance of an AD. I would not choose to put the Glock in a fanny pack holster, but it does sit nicely in some of the Kydex type holsters. I have a Fobus paddle holster (http://www.fobusholster.com/images/products/gl4rpl.jpg) and an actual Glock brand holster (http://images2.opticsplanet.com/365-240-ffffff/opplanet-glock-sportcombat-holster-black-right-trigger-guard-h002639.jpg) for my 10mm. I find the Fobus to be a noticeably more comfortable and quicker to draw than the Glock holster. It's still not as comfortable as a good leather holster though.

[Lloyd Smale]

they made them both with and without safetys through the years. The way i carried mine and the way i saw alot using them was to carry them cocked and use a break away strap between the hammer and frame.

[WilliamDahl]

they made them both with and without safetys through the years. The way i carried mine and the way i saw alot using them was to carry them cocked and use a break away strap between the hammer and frame.

So, a SA M1911 light trigger and NO safety whatsoever? I think I'll pass on that. Or I would have just carried it uncocked.

[6bg6ga]

Guys I'm learning a lot in this thread. Several weeks ago I purchased a used 23 and just the other day I purchased a used 20. The 20 had a total of 22 rounds thru it. If I understand correctly you can shoot 40cal in a 10mm? I have about 500 rounds of 10mm that came with my 10 along with 3 extra mags. I was never a Glock lover but was impressed with the fact that you can drive over it and it still shoots fine. The trigger safety had me wondering until I took the Glock apart. While its different I feel perfectly safe carring it loaded ready to go. As one that never puts a finger inside the trigger guard I'm fine with the mechanics. I own several 1911's at the moment and have owned a number of them over the years. If push came to shove I would reach for either the model 23 or the 20. I haven't shot the 20 yet.

[Oreo]

You can shoot 40sw in the 10mm barrel but that's not what it was designed to do and I advise against it.

Lots of people incorrectly state that in the G20 the cases "headspace" on the extractor. The cases headspace on the mouth of the case like any other but in the case of running 40sw in the g20 the extractor just holds them there with enough tension that the firing pin will ignite the primer. The term "headspacing" is not correct for that.

People also state that you can load a 40sw case to 10mm OAL and use a 10mm charge. There is SOME truth to that but you really must research the issue and understand it completely to do it safely. File it under "Advanced reloaded techniques". 40sw cases do NOT in fact have the same pressure rating as 10mm cases, not all bullets/boolits will work for this, poor case tension can allow bullet setback and thus pressure spikes and KBs. If you really want to understand it you need to read the threads dedicated to it. Don't just go off of one or two happenstance posts in an unrelated thread. Drink deep or taste not!

[sargenv]

The 610 ain't all its cracked up to be. First, the step in the chamber shaves lead when shooting shorter cartridges like the 40sw. It would do it with the 10mm if the cylinder was bored out for 10mm mag. And 10mm mag has almost no load data available at all.

I don't know about the shaving bullet thing with the shorter cased 40 S&W.. I've been using a -2 model since they came out.. the last 100,000 rounds I've fired with it (USPSA/ICORE competition @ 8-15k/year for over 10 years) and I can't tell the difference between the 10 and 40 brass. I've loaded them short, long, in between, and I can't tell the difference..

The gun simply shoots and shoots.. I've loaded the ammo hot, not so hot, and mouse fart.. It keeps shooting and shooting.. I know several people in my area with various flavors and models of this revolver and so far I can't find anyone that doesn't like it.

I fire it at competition distances from 3-50 yards.. If there is anyone out there that has fired more ammo through any other 610 than me, I'd be surprised.. The Glock is fun to shoot (in 10 mm) but there seem to be even fewer 20's or the sub compact models out there than the 610.. I would still highly reccommend the 610 as a viable platform.. with 40's or the rare as hen's teeth 10 mm brass.

[Oreo]

I didn't mean to say the 610 was a bad gun. I believe it is a wonderful gun as you say. What I meant to say was that if you were going to buy one revolver there are probably better choices of cartridge when you consider utility and other details. For me, a 44mag was a better choice.

Now if you've got the money to spend and already have your utility bases covered, by all means, buy and enjoy the 610.

[TheGrimReaper]

Hi,
Hatch is right,but I hate the 40 and LOVE the 10MM! Go figure!

Me too!!! LOVE me some 10MM!!!

[sargenv]

Oreo,

Fair enough ;)

The 610 has been kind to me.. firing it at the IRC has won me a 657, a 686+, and a custom Ruger 10-22.. the 657 will be going with me back to the IRC next year if I can get a 4 cav RN mold made up in time..

[thomashoward]

You can shoot 40sw in the 10mm barrel but that's not what it was designed to do and I advise against it.

Lots of people incorrectly state that in the G20 the cases "headspace" on the extractor. The cases headspace on the mouth of the case like any other but in the case of running 40sw in the g20 the extractor just holds them there with enough tension that the firing pin will ignite the primer. The term "headspacing" is not correct for that.

People also state that you can load a 40sw case to 10mm OAL and use a 10mm charge. There is SOME truth to that but you really must research the issue and understand it completely to do it safely. File it under "Advanced reloaded techniques". 40sw cases do NOT in fact have the same pressure rating as 10mm cases, not all bullets/boolits will work for this, poor case tension can allow bullet setback and thus pressure spikes and KBs. If you really want to understand it you need to read the threads dedicated to it. Don't just go off of one or two happenstance posts in an unrelated thread. Drink deep or taste not!
This is right on.
Don't believe everything you hear. Just because you CAN for a short while does not mean you should.Semi autos headspace on the mouth of the case ,hence the TAPER crimp.

[ss30378]

Also i will point out that shooting a 40 s&w in a 10mm chamber you will lose 50-100fps depending on the load. There is enough room for gas to leak out around the bullet in the oversized chamber. While ive never shot cast bullets from a 40in a 10mm chamber I believe this could have the potential to cause heavy leading. The best solution and the one I went with was get a 40 cal barrel and throat it to 10mm length. That way you still have proper head spacing, and no fps loss or leading potential from a sloppy chamber fit. Works like a charm and I can match 10mm ballistics with heavy bullets that are long enough to seat to 10mm OAL and still have a good crimp. As far as strength of case goes the 40 case is stronger than the 10mm since it has a small primer pocket vs the large on the 10. Either case is strong enough for the job of even beyond max book loads the key is in chamber support. Glock factory barrels are known to have bad support as well as the delta elites so bulged/blown brass is a real possibility with hot loads. In glocks go with a good aftermarket barrel with good support. Lone wolf used to be good and cheap for this but their recent production chamber and feed ramp cut leaves as much case unsported as the factory barrel.

[grumman581]

To save a bit of typing, I'm going to propose a new identifier -- .40HL -- (.40 Hot & Long) -- to indicate a 10mm powder charge placed in .40SW brass and fired in a 10mm barrel. If anyone knows of an existing identifier for this combination, feel free to correct me.

I've been shooting a G29 with normal 10mm and .40SW out of the factory barrel. I've also tried the HL40 technique and it has worked. I did not notice any bulging of the brass. I think that the Glock 10mm does not have the bulging issue that the .40 barrel is noted for. I recently added a G20 to my collection and it handles all three types of ammo acceptably also. I don't consider it any different than shooting .38special rounds in a .357mag.

One thing that I noticed recently with the G20 while shooting the .40HL rounds was that it was placing the empty brass right by my right foot. I was standing on asphalt, so some of the pieces of brass would hit a rock and bounce a couple of feet off, but others were actually landing base down and just sitting there. Probably just a freak occurrence given the powder charge that I was using.

[Mohillbilly]

For fun ,paper punching as you said , do the .40S&W . cheaper available brass , reduced recoil , more trigger time and less powder use each shot at the same speed . The off side is more trigger time brings more lead use and more primer use ........ and there are more used .40s so maybe a less expensive gun .....

[grumman581]

For fun ,paper punching as you said , do the .40S&W . cheaper available brass , reduced recoil , more trigger time and less powder use each shot at the same speed . The off side is more trigger time brings more lead use and more primer use ........ and there are more used .40s so maybe a less expensive gun .....

I think it depends upon whether you are going to go with a Glock or not. If you are going with a Glock, then it makes sense to go with the 10mm (G20 or G29). If you are going with another manufacturer, then you might not be able to shoot a .40SW round in a 10mm chamber, so it makes economical sense to just go with the .40SW. Plus, you can go with any of the cheaper .40SW handguns since there are a lot more companies making .40SW handguns than 10mm ones.

There's not really a price difference on the .40SW vs 10mm Glock, so I don't really see a reason why someone would choose the .40SW Glock over the 10mm one. It also seems to me that the 10mm / .40HL has a less snappy recoil than the .40SW round when loaded to the same velocities. Has anyone else noticed this?

[xacex]

I am curious about the Glock 29 barrel in a Glock 30. I have read that you need to adjust the extractor a little and the hood is not as wide, but it works. Then there are the glock 30 to 10mm conversion barrels out there too. If a Glock 29 barrel works in a 30, why not use a glock 29 conversion barrel for say .357 sig, or 9x25 in a Glock 30? All you need is a barrel and a mag. It would be nice to have a .45ACP,10mm(.40 S&W), 45 super,460 Rowland,357 sig, 9x25 Dillon, 400 Corbon capable firearm in one package.

[xacex]

For an update I did try a Glock 29 357 sig barrel in the Glock 30, and have been using it for over a year. It works well with a standard G29 magazine, but just like the 10 mm conversion barrels you may want to modify the pad that limits the grab on the extractor. This is a common practice with the 45acp to 10 mm conversion on the Glocks. Without doing this the extractor claw barely grabs the smaller case, but it is only a problem when hand cycling and not while functioning under fire.

[Lloyd Smale]

one of the dumbest things I ever did was selling my 3 inch 610. It was probably the most accurate smith N frame ive ever owned. (with 10mm ammo) it did shoot 40s just fine but 25 yard groups were in the 2inch range verses a ragged hole for some of my handloaded 10s.
Oreo,

Fair enough ;)

The 610 has been kind to me.. firing it at the IRC has won me a 657, a 686+, and a custom Ruger 10-22.. the 657 will be going with me back to the IRC next year if I can get a 4 cav RN mold made up in time..

[Ruger45Bisley]

Nearly two year old thread, but I prefer the .40 since it's cheaper and more plentiful. I loaded for the 10mm for a long time and even played with long loaded .40 in a KKM.40 barrel in a G20 but overall, I don't see a huge power gain. My G23 with KKM can throw a 180gr hardcast to 1225 fps and the G35 will easily top 1300 if I want something powerful in a pistol, but even with plinking loads the .40 eats less powder and punches paper just fine. I think the 10mm is a great cartridge, but since most decisions folks make are personal, to me the 10mm wasn't giving me much more than what I had considering the cost, plus if I want a big .40 I'll bring out the .41 Mags.

[Ramjet-SS]

I read this thread with allot of interest and after doing some due diligence I wholly agree that you can shoot the 40 from the Model 29 or model 20 without concern other than cleaning the chamber after you shoot the 40 and prior to shooting 10 in the same barrel. I just ran 75 rounds of 40 through my model 29 it fired and worked flawlessly.

Here is pretty good explination for the case for it. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/06/jeremy-s/40-in-a-10mm-glock/

[TCLouis]

As I understand the principle, one can load a 10mm DOWN to 40 S&W levels,

BUT

One can not load a 40 S&W UP to 10mm

[NavyVet1959]

As I understand the principle, one can load a 10mm DOWN to 40 S&W levels,

BUT

One can not load a 40 S&W UP to 10mm

Actually, you are loading a 10mm firearm with .40SW brass. Works great. Just use 10mm OAL instead of .40 OAL. If you are talking about loading a .40SW firearm to 10mm pressures though, for most .40SW firearms, you are probably correct. On the other hand, there are some that are strong enough for it.

[retread]

i use and enjoy both with cast bullets. Only real downside to 10mm is its harder to find brass and its more expensive when you do.

10's are plentiful and cheap. 10's are more scarce and consequently more expensive. For that reason alone I would go for the 40.